No co-sleeping?!

[erin is nice]

I know it's bad in the ghetto because they usually end up killing the children.

What an absurd, ridiculous thing to say.

What's ridiculous about it?  A few dozen children die each year in the ghetto because of cosleeping. 

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Being drunk or high, passing out and accidentally suffocating your baby is not the same thing as "co-sleeping" which is a conscious choice on the part of the parents.

[clau clau]

For most of Catholic history peasants lived in one room homes.

How do you avoid co-sleeping in a roundhouse or hovel?

Hovel ?  Luxury!    We used to live in cardboard box in middle'o'lake.

[kayla_veronica]

For most of Catholic history peasants lived in one room homes.

How do you avoid co-sleeping in a roundhouse or hovel?

Hovel ?  Luxury!    We used to live in cardboard box in middle'o'lake.

I wish they were more specific about their sleeping arrangements:

[Bonaventure]

I think you are confused if you are taking it as "at all" at "any age".

I believe St. Alphonsus Liguori said this of children post-age 2, since mom and dad engaging in the marital act is now more visually understood.

There's a simple solution for that -- if the children are in bed (nightmare, teething issues, etc.), don't engage.

This seems... intuitive.

Honest question....what about back in the day when everyone slept in the same bed, for the most part?

As if people needed to figure out how to (discreetly?) have sex.

William Manchester, who is a hack and trash "historian," asserted that when people boned in the one room house during the Middle Ages, everyone would hear or see.

Any serious student knows that this book, A World Lit Only By Fire, is a joke, so I don't believe him.

My wife was in a "trad" congregation of sisters for five years. I've heard crazy stories of how brothers, sisters, and priests would find the time to sneak off and be able to hold hands, or kiss. In case anyone didn't already know, every minute of a religious' life is accounted for, and people always know where they are. Yet, they were able to do it.

If there's a will, there's a way.

[JubilateDeo]

I think you are confused if you are taking it as "at all" at "any age".

I believe St. Alphonsus Liguori said this of children post-age 2, since mom and dad engaging in the marital act is now more visually understood.

There's a simple solution for that -- if the children are in bed (nightmare, teething issues, etc.), don't engage.

This seems... intuitive.

Honest question....what about back in the day when everyone slept in the same bed, for the most part?

As if people needed to figure out how to (discreetly?) have sex.

William Manchester, who is a hack and trash "historian," asserted that when people bones in the one room house during the Middle Ages, everyone would hear or see.

Any serious student knows that this book, A World Lit Only By Fire, is a joke, so I don't believe him.

My wife was in a "trad" congregation of sisters for five years. I've heard crazy stories of how brothers, sisters, and priests would find the time to sneak off and be able to hold hands, or kiss. In case anyone didn't already know, every minute of a religious' life is accounted for, and people always know where they are. Yet, they were able to do it.

If there's a will, there's a way.

!!!!!  That's really disturbing.  Can you please PM me what the order is so I know to avoid them?

[LouisIX]

Is cosleeping even a thing in the ghetto? Seems to be more common among educated whites

It probably is because it seems to me to be entirely natural to human nature as such and not a mere accident of culture or race.

[LouisIX]

It's probably about as common anywhere as the unfortunate but frequent occurrence of exhausted parents who've been told not to bring baby into bed falling asleep with them in a chair or on a couch and dropping the baby. 

I read the admonition against co-sleeping in the Angelus Press published "Mother Love."

People love to ask co-sleeping families nebbing questions about how they keep having more children. The answer is that there are other rooms in the house.


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I read an article recently which described how dangerous the attempts to not co-sleep can be. Because it is nearly entirely unfeasible to stay away with a baby during the night the entire time that they nurse or are otherwise merely awake, people end up falling asleep in their rocking or easy chair. This leads to a significant increase in suffocation or, as you said, dropping the baby.

I'm not advocating for sola cum dormiens. It might not work for some people. It might even be dangerous for some people. But it is far from anathema or an inherent evil.

[LouisIX]

I think you are confused if you are taking it as "at all" at "any age".

I believe St. Alphonsus Liguori said this of children post-age 2, since mom and dad engaging in the marital act is now more visually understood.

There's a simple solution for that -- if the children are in bed (nightmare, teething issues, etc.), don't engage.

This seems... intuitive.

Honest question....what about back in the day when everyone slept in the same bed, for the most part?

To be honest, I have no idea. And I am somewhat happy with that fact.

[Greg]

I think you are confused if you are taking it as "at all" at "any age".

I believe St. Alphonsus Liguori said this of children post-age 2, since mom and dad engaging in the marital act is now more visually understood.

There's a simple solution for that -- if the children are in bed (nightmare, teething issues, etc.), don't engage.

This seems... intuitive.

Honest question....what about back in the day when everyone slept in the same bed, for the most part?

As if people needed to figure out how to (discreetly?) have sex.

William Manchester, who is a hack and trash "historian," asserted that when people bones in the one room house during the Middle Ages, everyone would hear or see.

Any serious student knows that this book, A World Lit Only By Fire, is a joke, so I don't believe him.

My wife was in a "trad" congregation of sisters for five years. I've heard crazy stories of how brothers, sisters, and priests would find the time to sneak off and be able to hold hands, or kiss. In case anyone didn't already know, every minute of a religious' life is accounted for, and people always know where they are. Yet, they were able to do it.

If there's a will, there's a way.

!!!!!  That's really disturbing.  Can you please PM me what the order is so I know to avoid them?

Just avoid the ones where the brothers and brothers sneak off.

[OCLittleFlower]

While I wouldn't go as far as to say that sharing a bed with an infant is SINFUL, I do know a woman who works for the coroner's office and her stories are enough to scare a sensible person away from such a thing.  And nope, not always (or usually) the ghetto, drunk, high, whatever.  Often it was suffocation on adult comforters, pillows, etc.

With children who are weaned, I don't see a good reason.  We had to do it once on vacation, it was awful.  Can't imagine doing that regularly for any reason other than dire poverty and a lack of beds. 

[Penelope]

Most of the traditional or conservative Catholic families I know co-sleep. They all seem pretty sensible to me. 🤷🏻???


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[ABlaine]

Can some give me a rundown on what we are actually talking about here? I've never actually thought about this in my life.

So what exactly IS co-sleeping? Is it

1. When you sleep with a baby/infant in the bed
2. When you have more children than beds/rooms and they share a bed
3. When a toddler+ (i.e. someone that can talk and will be difficult to roll onto and smoother) wants to sleep in the same bed as their parents because nightmares/fear etc
4. The above but with another sibling
5. Having the child sleep in the parents bed as the norm

Of the five the first one seems dangerous for obvious reasons, and the last just seems weird. But seem so normal that I've never actually thought about it before. So what does this word actually mean? I mean I'm now imagining this situation:

It was a dark and stormy night; the rain fell in torrents — except at occasional intervals, when it was checked by a violent gust of wind which swept up the streets (for it is in London that our scene lies), rattling along the housetops, and fiercely agitating the scanty flame of the lamps that struggled against the darkness.
Timmy, frightened, runs down the hall into his parents room.
"Mommy, I'm scared"
"Oh, it'll be alright darling, come here"
Father disapproves
"No Linda! I'll not tolerate such sinning in my household! Timmy, you're endangering your mother's soul"
"But he's just 4"
"Old enough to be a man! Timmy, raus RAUS!"

Most of the traditional or conservative Catholic families I know co-sleep. They all seem pretty sensible to me. 🤷🏻???

For example, in this case what does this actually mean out of the numbered list above?

Kinda surprised that any of these could actually be construed as sinful.

[OCLittleFlower]

Most of the traditional or conservative Catholic families I know co-sleep. They all seem pretty sensible to me. 🤷🏻???


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Their kids, their choice.

To be perfectly clear, I'm all for freedom in parenting.  But no, I don't think most/many Trads parent sensibly.  The helicoptering and spoiling has tricked down to Trads as well.  Either that or, after 5-6 kids, they give up on supervision and discipline almost entirely.  There are exceptions, but man...the fruits I see of the parenting of most Trads I know is NOT something I would ever emulate on a bet.

[OCLittleFlower]

Can some give me a rundown on what we are actually talking about here? I've never actually thought about this in my life.

So what exactly IS co-sleeping? Is it

1. When you sleep with a baby/infant in the bed
2. When you have more children than beds/rooms and they share a bed
3. When a toddler+ (i.e. someone that can talk and will be difficult to roll onto and smoother) wants to sleep in the same bed as their parents because nightmares/fear etc
4. The above but with another sibling
5. Having the child sleep in the parents bed as the norm

Number 1 is indeed dangerous.

Number 2 isn't legal in my state for approval of adoption (we were told that each child must legally have their own bed, even if they never, ever sleep in it, they have to have the option/space for it).  Not sure how my state (California) views it in biological families.

I've never done number 3 -- I don't think it's the best for a kid's mental state to think they can/should wake their parents for such things.  Once you're old enough to say you had a bad dream, you're old enough to know it wasn't real and thus not to disturb others in the middle of the night with it.  I strongly suspect that there are a lot of fake "bad dreams" out there among kids who don't want to stay in their own beds.    Truthfully, though, neither of mine has ever had an issue with nightmares, luckily.

Number 4 seems odd to me -- disturbing the parent is one thing but the sibling is something else.

Number 5 also seems strange.  I can see it if a child is very ill and needs medical care in the night, but even then I would set up multiple beds or a cot or something.

[JubilateDeo]

Being a parent isn't a 7am-7pm job.  It would be nice to clock out and be off duty, but small children have nighttime needs--emotional and physical.