Why do some Trads have the Amish spirit?

[stitchmom]

What basics cost a small fortune for older kids? Shoes, boots, socks, underwear are nice to have new but what else? They are not small fortunes, even for 10 kids.  Most other clothing can be bought used. Most states have liberal policies for medicaid if there was a serious illness. The only other thing I can think of is dental.

[erin is nice]

What basics cost a small fortune for older kids? Shoes, boots, socks, underwear are nice to have new but what else? They are not small fortunes, even for 10 kids.  Most other clothing can be bought used. Most states have liberal policies for medicaid if there was a serious illness. The only other thing I can think of is dental.

At least three of my kids will need braces (actually need them, not just minor cosmetic correction)-- here that's $6000 each. We spend $900 a month on food, and that is obviously going to increase as the kids get even bigger. Except for some church clothes, none of the older boys' clothes can be passed down to the little boys because they end up destroyed. Our last water bill was well over $300 because the kids need to bathe more now, and they can't double up anymore. And of course school supplies, school fees, field trip money, and hundreds of other expenses that come up.

[Roland Deschain]

What basics cost a small fortune for older kids? Shoes, boots, socks, underwear are nice to have new but what else? They are not small fortunes, even for 10 kids.  Most other clothing can be bought used. Most states have liberal policies for medicaid if there was a serious illness. The only other thing I can think of is dental.

At least three of my kids will need braces (actually need them, not just minor cosmetic correction)-- here that's $6000 each. We spend $900 a month on food, and that is obviously going to increase as the kids get even bigger. Except for some church clothes, none of the older boys' clothes can be passed down to the little boys because they end up destroyed. Our last water bill was well over $300 because the kids need to bathe more now, and they can't double up anymore. And of course school supplies, school fees, field trip money, and hundreds of other expenses that come up.

That sounds awfully high. I think I recall in another thread you stating you had 5 kids, 4 boys and a girl. I have the same breakdown with the oldest boy being 12. We spend less then $500 a month on groceries.

I keep a lot of beans, cornmeal, flour etc on hand and have several good cookbooks which have very simple but tasty recipes. We also rarely eat meat so that may be a factor.

It took several years of marriage to manage the grocery bill down to where it is but it can be done.

[Greg]

I don't particularly want to eat like a Mexican peasant.  Neither do my children or my wife.

Neither do all those Mexicans flooding over the border I imagine.

I like meat, ham, bacon, sausages, beer, wine.

I'd work overtime rather than eat cheap food all my life.  Food is a pleasure.

[stitchmom]

What basics cost a small fortune for older kids? Shoes, boots, socks, underwear are nice to have new but what else? They are not small fortunes, even for 10 kids.  Most other clothing can be bought used. Most states have liberal policies for medicaid if there was a serious illness. The only other thing I can think of is dental.

At least three of my kids will need braces (actually need them, not just minor cosmetic correction)-- here that's $6000 each. We spend $900 a month on food, and that is obviously going to increase as the kids get even bigger. Except for some church clothes, none of the older boys' clothes can be passed down to the little boys because they end up destroyed. Our last water bill was well over $300 because the kids need to bathe more now, and they can't double up anymore. And of course school supplies, school fees, field trip money, and hundreds of other expenses that come up.

That sounds awfully high. I think I recall in another thread you stating you had 5 kids, 4 boys and a girl. I have the same breakdown with the oldest boy being 12. We spend less then $500 a month on groceries.

I keep a lot of beans, cornmeal, flour etc on hand and have several good cookbooks which have very simple but tasty recipes. We also rarely eat meat so that may be a factor.

It took several years of marriage to manage the grocery bill down to where it is but it can be done.

I buy bulk foods like beans and grains and I think $500 for 6 people is amazing even without meat. I don't think $900 is high for 6 with the way prices have shot up the past few years. I guess it depends on the stores in your area. Stores like Publix are very high while Aldi and Save A Lot are less expensive. 

[Roland Deschain]

I don't particularly want to eat like a Mexican peasant.  Neither do my children or my wife.

Neither do all those Mexicans flooding over the border I imagine.

I like meat, ham, bacon, sausages, beer, wine.

I'd work overtime rather than eat cheap food all my life.  Food is a pleasure.

You know, Greg....I used to really look forward to and agree with your posts. Lately however you have really taken on an air of condescending elitism.

For what it's worth, food is first of all sustenance. My family does not eat like a bunch of "Mexican peasants" either, for your information.

[Greg]

You eat what you like.

But for most people 500 bucks is not going to buy the food they wish to eat. 

Erin and myself are not overspending we are JUST grocery shopping.  Fresh milk, fresh vegetables, chocolate biscuits, beef, lamb, you know, normal stuff.

How would you feel if a North Korean Trad told you that you could eat boiled rice and insects and spend 50 dollars per month.  Perfectly nutritious and probably more healthy than your diet.

[Roland Deschain]

You eat what you like.

But for most people 500 bucks is not going to buy the food they wish to eat. 

Erin and myself are not overspending we are JUST grocery shopping.  Fresh milk, fresh vegetables, chocolate biscuits, beef, lamb, you know, normal stuff.

How would you feel if a North Korean Trad told you that you could eat boiled rice and insects and spend 50 dollars per month.  Perfectly nutritious and probably more healthy than your diet.

We eat all those things, save the lamb. It helps that the state farmer's market is 30 minutes from my house. You can get a lot of fresh local food for much less than the grocery store. Learning how to preserve and can is another great way to lower the grocery bill.

I suppose my taste just doesn't suit your much more refined, British palette.

[stitchmom]

I don't particularly want to eat like a Mexican peasant.  Neither do my children or my wife.

Neither do all those Mexicans flooding over the border I imagine.

I like meat, ham, bacon, sausages, beer, wine.

I'd work overtime rather than eat cheap food all my life.  Food is a pleasure.

Grateful for rice and beans here. 

[beagle]

I bet you before the first page is filled in someone on one of those boards is bitching about 'women going to university', 'banking is evil' and 'they are obviously liberals because they go to FSSP masses'.

Yeah, it's kinda like somebody bitching about somebody on another forum that's not interested in making 2mil a year or eating veal.

[erin is nice]

Unfortunately, where I live has some of the highest food prices in the entire US, and on top of that I'm dealing with two kids with food allergies. So most of the 'eating cheap' recipes just don't work for us. I'm not buying lamb or veal 

[Bonaventure]

I don't particularly want to eat like a Mexican peasant.  Neither do my children or my wife.

Neither do all those Mexicans flooding over the border I imagine.

I like meat, ham, bacon, sausages, beer, wine.

I'd work overtime rather than eat cheap food all my life.  Food is a pleasure.

Grateful for rice and beans here. 

Even my grandpa tires of rice and beans.

[voxxpopulisuxx]

When you live in an overbearing materialist world.(the USA is that in spades)..where things are considered the ultimate goal....and running on a hamster wheel for the empowerment of money....the restfull Idea of living poor and simple does have a reasonable appeal. My only criticism greg is that you seem to be of the opinion that you are some kind of standard of normalcy. That what appeals to you and works for you will work for anybody. That all people are essentially the same in temperament, purpose, tastes and abilitys. God has not made it so...why do you think it so. You gave me very good advice and I respect it and am implementing some of what you suggested...I agree with you that whining and excuse making is not manly...however your lack of empathy can be jarring. I asked you a question once that you have never answered and you obviously are free to go on not answering...but I will ask again...have you ever been poor or even close to poor? Have you ever known the joy of a welfare christmas? Have you ever had to decide between losing your electricity or your water? Have you ever had to eat lawn grass (I speak of a woman from our Parish who lived through the US depression as a little girl)....if you have never experienced these things you cannot possibly make a rational opinion about them beyond your imagination. With all due respect...I could learn alot from a succesfull guy like you....but you could learn alot from a widow dropping her last penny in the church basket.

[Gerard]

There's a bit of a caricature going on with blame being put on Bishop Williamson. 

It seems people have only half-heard what he speaks on these matters and why.   It's a testament to the "jumping to conclusions" and failure to listen, analyse and think that is a pandemic among people and probably always has been. 

Bishop W. has talked about levels of pressure with regards to saving one's soul.  Living in the city is an environment that puts pressure on couples to contracept.  But he's stated that it's not impossible to save your soul in the city, otherwise God would be sending Angels in to lead people away. 

He has also stated that people's situation in life does not make it wise to drop everything and go the rural route, especially if you're idealistic and don't have a clue about what you're doing.  "Daisy the cow still needs to be milked on Christmas morning and she's not going to wait." 

It seems a number of people seem to forget or ignore  Bishop Williamson's most frequent appeal: "Use common sense."  He simply wants people to be able to gauge what is going on.  The biggest part of the crisis of today is understanding the crisis.  It's like fighting an army of opponents that have invisibile elements to them.  (spiritually that is the case of course)

Everyone has different flaws and strengths and everyone steps in it and succeeds in various ways.  Some men are good at being poor or making a modest living and souls are saved.  Some men are good at creating jobs, being efficient and getting external things done.  All of them are struggling with SOMETHING that is attacking their souls.  And who knows how God is going to deal with each of us?  He allowed Job to lose everything, yet he rewards him with temporal goods, greater than what he lost.  Others, like Lazarus, don't fare so well materially in this world but they are successful because the soul is saved. 

Temperance is one of those virtues that should be cultivated but it is tailored to the gifts and weaknesses of the individual.  A man might be a billionaire but not have the love of money that is the root of all evil.  Conversely a man might be poor who loses his soul because of his envy.  And of course, the reverse can occur with every possible variant and combination in between.

Regarding the "Amish" spirit.  That's yet another caricature and anyone who's lived around them knows they come in a wide variety of types.  They are not cookie cutters, some are really nice and others are enviious, materialistic and users.  They don't drive cars in many cases, but they sure won't hesitate to ask their neighbors to drive them places on occasion. 

I don't think it would be bad advice for everyone to have a devotion to St. Joseph for all the domestic issues and to make sure we use the gifts we've been given for the purpose God has ordained for us and for the salvation of souls.   

[Eliza]

Excellent post, Gerard. Thankyou for that.