+Bishop Williamson

[dust]

What to make of +Bishop Williamson and the apparent forming  brake in the SSPX ranks? And does anyone think this will greatly harm the SSPX?

[Greg]

I think they will fizzle out.  They have no money or assets or any real substance and the sort of hard liners in the laity who would morally support Bishop Williamson are, in my experience of them, pretty inept at doing much more than scrapping a living for themselves.  A few of them have inherited money but people are often very tight with inheritances because they know that once spent or given away there is no more.

Even now on other forums I see a lot of talk and hot words but nobody putting their hand in their pocket and donating the sorts of of five figure sums you would need to spawn a new apostolate.

People with decent incomes like professionals, business owners etc tend to be more pragmatic, because you need to be to deal with ordinary people in the world which the professions and business owners must do.  On average I would think the vast majority of those people will support Menzingen.

SSPX made most of its wealth from dead widows leaving it cash and property and shares.  But that was built up over 30 years and from a decent starting base.  There is no way the breakaways have that sort of base.

Without a starting critical mass of Supporters I think they'll never get off the runway.

[tmw89]

Greg, I beg to differ.  Given the very small size of the SSPX-SO - much smaller than the SSPV in '83 - I think they will be able to sustain themselves for the foreseeable future.

More on this later.

[dust]

Thanks for the responses. Does this not make the fight to regularize the SSPX even more difficult? I know that with the current CDF head it is highly unlikly, but for those who wish the SSPX would go away, the +Bishop Williamson issue is a gift.

[Kaesekopf]

Thanks for the responses. Does this not make the fight to regularize the SSPX even more difficult? I know that with the current CDF head it is highly unlikly, but for those who wish the SSPX would go away, the +Bishop Williamson issue is a gift.

With +Williamson expelled, I think it buffers the SSPX against claims of anti-Semitism and the "kookery" of +Williamson.

With +Mueller as head of the CDF (which oversees Ecclesia Dei), there can't be a regularization.  He'd have to treat the SSPX as Catholics, which he refuses to do.

[Kaesekopf]

I think the success of the "SSPX-SO" hinges on +Williamson's ability to fund-raise, practically speaking. 

It might seem unlikely, but he is a widely-respected traditionalist bishop who has been somewhat adept at using different forms of communication to transmit his messages.  He was also rector of the SSPX North American and Argentine seminaries, so it's not like he's not a people person.  He clearly can serve in that type of position (my guess is he was heavily involved in fundraising for the seminary while rector). 

It just matters, I think, on how many people he can get to hear his message, convince them, and get them to donate. 

But, as he always said with respect to the Society that expelled him, if God wants his endeavors to succeed, they will succeed. 

Without God, we can do nothing.  With God, we can do anything. 

[ServusSpiritusSancti]

I think that +Williamson and the SSPX-SO will be successful.

[Greg]

I think the success of the "SSPX-SO" hinges on +Williamson's ability to fund-raise, practically speaking. 

It might seem unlikely, but he is a widely-respected traditionalist bishop who has been somewhat adept at using different forms of communication to transmit his messages.  He was also rector of the SSPX North American and Argentine seminaries, so it's not like he's not a people person.  He clearly can serve in that type of position (my guess is he was heavily involved in fundraising for the seminary while rector). 

It just matters, I think, on how many people he can get to hear his message, convince them, and get them to donate. 

But, as he always said with respect to the Society that expelled him, if God wants his endeavors to succeed, they will succeed. 

Without God, we can do nothing.  With God, we can do anything.

Why would they donate if they cannot get the mass or the sacraments as a result?

If supporters of the strict observance are spread around egographically and in different states different parts of the state and different counties around the world then why would a person in Kansas donate to build a chapel in London?

No sure, within the US you can move.  You can uproot your family and move them to wherever the SSPX-SO decide to set up and being strict observance Catholics a higher proportion might be prepared to do that.  But you cannot very well move internationally, short of marrying a citizen of your new host country.

If you look closely at the accounts of the SSPX you will understand that they are not able to grow and thrive on the basis on donations from their living supporters but rather on those who die and leave them real estate in their wills.

In addition to this what stops the SSPX-SO splitting and breaking up as sedevacantists have.  Williamson is a great figurehead I agree because he has personality as you say, but when one of his priests has a difference of opinion over something or other than the priest feels is a point of critical importance, what stops him forming the Society of the properly strict observance?

A group of people who have formed because they see human politick as a betrayal and a conspiracy are not likely to be able to hold together in a single body for very long.  I submit that the SSPX-SO for all the zeal it's members and leaders have will be hamstrung by the concentration of people with these uncompromising characteristics.

Too many chiefs, not enough Indians.  Too many cooks spoil the broth, something like that.

[Bonaventure]

Too many chiefs, not enough Indians.  Too many cooks spoil the broth, something like that.

Great quote.

[dust]

Why would they donate if they cannot get the mass or the sacraments as a result?

If supporters of the strict observance are spread around egographically and in different states different parts of the state and different counties around the world then why would a person in Kansas donate to build a chapel in London?

No sure, within the US you can move.  You can uproot your family and move them to wherever the SSPX-SO decide to set up and being strict observance Catholics a higher proportion might be prepared to do that.  But you cannot very well move internationally, short of marrying a citizen of your new host country.

If you look closely at the accounts of the SSPX you will understand that they are not able to grow and thrive on the basis on donations from their living supporters but rather on those who die and leave them real estate in their wills.

In addition to this what stops the SSPX-SO splitting and breaking up as sedevacantists have.  Williamson is a great figurehead I agree because he has personality as you say, but when one of his priests has a difference of opinion over something or other than the priest feels is a point of critical importance, what stops him forming the Society of the properly strict observance?

A group of people who have formed because they see human politick as a betrayal and a conspiracy are not likely to be able to hold together in a single body for very long.  I submit that the SSPX-SO for all the zeal it's members and leaders have will be hamstrung by the concentration of people with these uncompromising characteristics.

Too many chiefs, not enough Indians.  Too many cooks spoil the broth, something like that.
[/quote]

Agreed Greg. This is starting to look "protestant" in as much as when someone has a hissy, they become divisive, recruit followers, and form their own new group. Unity is destroyed by pride.

[tmw89]

This is starting to look "protestant" in as much as when someone has a hissy, they become divisive, recruit followers, and form their own new group. Unity is destroyed by pride.

The important difference between splintering Trad groups and the Prots of bygone centuries is that at least in this particular instance, the problem is more one of practicality coupled with the logical result of a flawed Ecclesiology  - AND they all remain faithful Catholics who are dealing with the Crisis as best they know how.  But to my second point of Ecclesiology, that is to say - in part due to their flawed theology RE the pope, which serves them well enough in that regard - SSPX-sprung groups tend to discount central authority.  In the wake of its own splits, I think the SSPV has gotten over that.  The SSPX-SO appears to me too small to splinter further.

Keep an eye out for when +Williamson consecrates one of the SSPX-SO priests a bishop.  I'm guessing it will be either Fr. Pfeiffer or Chazal.

[Gottmitunsalex]

People have +Williamson figured out wrong.

He is a good bishop and a saintly man. He is using the talents God has given him to Evangelize.
He has the Theological background, charisma, charm, EDUCATION, commanding presence, verbal skills, the list goes on and on in order to accomplish this. And many have turned to the Church because of him.

You know a Bishop is doing the correct thing when he pisses off "high ranking" false-religion worshipers.
(this also applies to CINO career bishops and priests)   

And of course, not till the good bishop passes away, will his earthly legacy start to shine.
Happens all the time. "He was a saintly man". "People just didn't understand him" "His message was too advanced for the times he lived in". etc. etc. etc.

I tell you this man is something else.  Aside from speaking The Truth, he also is seeks the truth of the world and expose it whenever he can.

May God bless Bishop Richard Williamson
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3JMmeV7Hwc[/yt]