Downside of being fluent in multiple languages from young age.

Started by Philip G., March 24, 2021, 08:29:17 PM

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Philip G.

I have a friend who was telling me that her niece I think, who is like 2 years old, is being taught english and spanish.  And, it got me thinking, is there a negative to being taught multiple languages before one reaches the age of reason?  Because, you would think in our multicultural society, it would only be a good thing, and it may be.  But, is there a downside to not having a first language?  Is it even possible to not have a first language?  You would think someone who is fluent in both spanish and english upon reaching the age of reason might be considered to not have a first language.  But, I doubt it.  I think one must have a first language.  If it is possible to not have a first language, but instead two, what do you think the downside(s) are?  How do you think it manifests itself?
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12

Heinrich

There are hordes of Mexican kids who don't talk the Spanish nor the English very good since they border hop. Dat not good.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

Philip G.

One downside that I can think of for a person who is fluent from a young age in many languages is that they may not have an accent.  And, I love accents!  And, I think that most people like accents.  I don't think we live in a world that wished accents did not exist.  So, what does an accent imply?  I think an accent either implies a first language, or a dominant language.  So, the next question is, can one who grew up speaking english, but is for whatever reason uprooted and placed in a spanish speaking society, where they learn spanish, and have to speak it daily as the main language, lose their english accent and english dominance?  Meaning, spanish becomes the dominant language for them, and they lose something of their english as a result of lack of use?  It seems reasonable that it could happen. However, I don't think it happens.  Because, I do not know of people who have strong accents, losing their accent over time.  And, the accent implies it seems the dominance of the first language.  Perhaps that is why accents are so likeable/loveable.  An accent implies roots and human nature that cannot be subjected entirely to nurture.  Because, humans are nature and nurture, not one or the other. 
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12

drummerboy

2 years old is very young, I've always thought it was 4-5 at the youngest to start, or that's when the instruction books start at least.
- I'll get with the times when the times are worth getting with

"I like grumpy old cusses.  Hope to live long enough to be one" - John Wayne

red solo cup

non impediti ratione cogitationis

Philip G.

Quote from: red solo cup on March 25, 2021, 07:33:51 AM
" A man who speaks two languages has two souls "

And what does Charlemagne say about the man with multiple wives and many concubines? 
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12

Philip G.

Quote from: drummerboy on March 24, 2021, 11:10:27 PM
2 years old is very young, I've always thought it was 4-5 at the youngest to start, or that's when the instruction books start at least.

I thought she said two, but I could be wrong. 
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12

Philip G.

How about this; which is more important?  Is it more important to teach your child to read?  Or, is it more important to teach your child a different language/more than one language? 

For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12

Daniel


Elizabeth.2

Quote from: Daniel on March 27, 2021, 05:55:01 AM

Off topic - I have heard that it's bad for adults to try learning multiple second languages at the same time. Not sure why. I think maybe just because it often backfires, and you don't make as much progress as you would have had you tried studying them each separately. (From my own personal experience, I've also found that sometimes I get confused and mix up the vocabulary between languages, lol)
I'm a tad learning disabled, but when they switched me out of French into Spanish in high school I couldn't cope.  I'd been doing really well in French, and I was motivated, but I lost the French and am way worse in Spanish than I should be.

aquinas138

There are no downsides. As for the proper age, a child learns completely differently than an adult, so I would say there is no age too young *in a bilingual home.* Children have an amazing capacity to learn even 4-5 languages at a time, but they have to be surrounded by it, not taught it. Children can't really learn language that way until they are older—their brains are just wired differently.

On a tangential note, a very interesting study some years ago indicated that the number one factor in people retaining a second, minority language into adulthood was that their fathers spoke to their mothers in the minority language.
What shall we call you, O full of grace? * Heaven? for you have shone forth the Sun of Righteousness. * Paradise? for you have brought forth the Flower of immortality. * Virgin? for you have remained incorrupt. * Pure Mother? for you have held in your holy embrace your Son, the God of all. * Entreat Him to save our souls.

Philip G.

Quote from: aquinas138 on March 27, 2021, 07:52:02 AM
There are no downsides. As for the proper age, a child learns completely differently than an adult, so I would say there is no age too young *in a bilingual home.* Children have an amazing capacity to learn even 4-5 languages at a time, but they have to be surrounded by it, not taught it. Children can't really learn language that way until they are older—their brains are just wired differently.

On a tangential note, a very interesting study some years ago indicated that the number one factor in people retaining a second, minority language into adulthood was that their fathers spoke to their mothers in the minority language.

Hooray for multiculturalism!  Not.  There has to be a downside.  If there is no downside, then there is no upside.  And, do not suggest that it is neutral.  Jesus judges nations/cultures against other nations/cultures.  Languages are proximate to that form of judgement.  If you don't agree, I might just have to unleash some LOTR speech of Mordor truth on you.  And, we all know how that enjoys unanimous consent around here. So, being multicultural from a young age is not neutral.  "On the lips of infants and babes, God has perfected praise."  An infant does not speak a language.  As for children, who can speak languages, Jesus said, "suffer the children to come unto me."  That means that children can be sanctified, and children can be cursed regarding language. 
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12

drummerboy

Quote from: aquinas138 on March 27, 2021, 07:52:02 AM
There are no downsides. As for the proper age, a child learns completely differently than an adult, so I would say there is no age too young *in a bilingual home.* Children have an amazing capacity to learn even 4-5 languages at a time, but they have to be surrounded by it, not taught it. Children can't really learn language that way until they are older—their brains are just wired differently.

On a tangential note, a very interesting study some years ago indicated that the number one factor in people retaining a second, minority language into adulthood was that their fathers spoke to their mothers in the minority language.

Which is why, in former times, well to do parents would hire a language tutor to live with the children, and they were allowed to speak only the language to be learned.  Talk about immersion! 
- I'll get with the times when the times are worth getting with

"I like grumpy old cusses.  Hope to live long enough to be one" - John Wayne

Heinrich

Quote from: drummerboy on March 27, 2021, 11:35:55 AM
Quote from: aquinas138 on March 27, 2021, 07:52:02 AM
There are no downsides. As for the proper age, a child learns completely differently than an adult, so I would say there is no age too young *in a bilingual home.* Children have an amazing capacity to learn even 4-5 languages at a time, but they have to be surrounded by it, not taught it. Children can't really learn language that way until they are older—their brains are just wired differently.

On a tangential note, a very interesting study some years ago indicated that the number one factor in people retaining a second, minority language into adulthood was that their fathers spoke to their mothers in the minority language.

Which is why, in former times, well to do parents would hire a language tutor to live with the children, and they were allowed to speak only the language to be learned.  Talk about immersion!

Right. And John Adams sent his son, the future president, to Russia(pronounced with rhotic /r/). It happens and is good when done right. Not saying that JQA was a good president.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

Christina_S

Being fluent in multiple languages does not necessarily equal multiculturalism.

There is a difference between learning another language for, say, academic purposes, and learning it for everyday use in its country/locale of origin. For example, learning Latin simply for the sake of reading canon law is different from learning it because you're a sucker for Roman mythology and love going to toga parties. There are some languages where it's easy to get sucked into some of the negative cultural components: Quebecois French is LOADED with swear words taken from religious imagery. But I think we can distinguish between multiculturalism and just being well-educated.
"You cannot be a half-saint; you must be a whole saint or no saint at all." ~St. Therese of Lisieux

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