Author Topic: New Member Seeks Your Input  (Read 8651 times)

Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: New Member Seeks Your Input
« Reply #135 on: September 22, 2019, 10:59:27 AM »
I don't see why some of the posters here on this thread are so upset with Tanny; there have been much more antagonistic posters on here without this reaction; and his posts on the whole been very courteous; there also has been posters with much more radically extreme ideas, yet I also didn't see such a negative reaction to them.

Tanny for what its worth, I would say, its not up to anyone here to kick you off the forum except our fearless moderator Kaesekopf; You can stay or leave at your pleasure; I would advise you to stay, only if this forum is doing you some spiritual good and not harm.
So getting back to the discussion:
Quote
Yes, everybody is saved.  Every separate thing that God has created will melt back in to God.  It's like the water foundation in a city park.  Each little individual water droplet goes shooting up in to the air, and for a very few precious moments is a "thing", something separate and unique.  And then all the water droplets fall back in to the pool which is the Source of the fountain.
You've never been separate from God, that's not even possible, so you don't have to earn your way back to God.  What we're all suffering from is instead the illusion that we're separate from God.  That illusion is healed, to the degree it's humanly possible, by the experience of love.
And if we never figure out how to heal the illusion, it's not that big a deal, because we're all going to die, so much sooner than we realize.  Everything goes back to God.  Everything.  Spiders, donkeys, elephants, people, every single thing that once was separate is once again united with the whole.
Toss a ball up in to the air.  A moment or two later it returns to Earth. Every single time.  Like that.
Men are not God and will never just melt back into God. That is Pantheism. But intelligent spiritual creatures will live on forever, with their own personality and consciousness, either enjoying the Beatific Vision i.e. To know God as He knows Himself and to love God as He knows Himself; or separated from God's love in the Hell of the damned forever. Christ's resurrection was the blueprint of our own; and just as Christ was conscious of His own personality, that he spoke and conversed with those He appeared to, and also ate food and he handled matter, for example in the breaking of the bread at Emmaus, or the cooking of the fish by the shore of Lake Genesareth; examples that demonstrate that He wasn't just a holographic projection, but a real person. He told St. Thomas to come and put his fingers and hands in His wounds; as a proof that He was truly risen and not a ghost.
If Pantheism were true, and we were all part of God, then we would not be capable of doing evil, but men do evil things and are therefore not God. For there is not evil or sin in God, who is wholly perfect, Holy, and just.

« Last Edit: September 22, 2019, 12:46:20 PM by Michael Wilson »
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 

Offline Miriam_M

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Re: New Member Seeks Your Input
« Reply #136 on: September 22, 2019, 11:15:41 AM »
Welcome back, Jayne.
 
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Offline Jayne

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Re: New Member Seeks Your Input
« Reply #137 on: September 22, 2019, 11:25:26 AM »
Assuming that Tanny sticks to his word we won't be seeing any more posts by him, but I have a suggestion for future reference.  I think an easy way to determine how likely people are to be a good fit for the forum is whether they could say the Oath Against Modernism:
Quote
I . . . . firmly embrace and accept each and every definition that has been set forth and declared by the unerring teaching authority of the Church, especially those principal truths which are directly opposed to the errors of this day. And first of all, I profess that God, the origin and end of all things, can be known with certainty by the natural light of reason from the created world (see Rom. 1:19), that is, from the visible works of creation, as a cause from its effects, and that, therefore, his existence can also be demonstrated: Secondly, I accept and acknowledge the external proofs of revelation, that is, divine acts and especially miracles and prophecies as the surest signs of the divine origin of the Christian religion and I hold that these same proofs are well adapted to the understanding of all eras and all men, even of this time. Thirdly, I believe with equally firm faith that the Church, the guardian and teacher of the revealed word, was personally instituted by the real and historical Christ when he lived among us, and that the Church was built upon Peter, the prince of the apostolic hierarchy, and his successors for the duration of time. Fourthly, I sincerely hold that the doctrine of faith was handed down to us from the apostles through the orthodox Fathers in exactly the same meaning and always in the same purport. Therefore, I entirely reject the heretical’ misrepresentation that dogmas evolve and change from one meaning to another different from the one which the Church held previously. I also condemn every error according to which, in place of the divine deposit which has been given to the spouse of Christ to be carefully guarded by her, there is put a philosophical figment or product of a human conscience that has gradually been developed by human effort and will continue to develop indefinitely. Fifthly, I hold with certainty and sincerely confess that faith is not a blind sentiment of religion welling up from the depths of the subconscious under the impulse of the heart and the motion of a will trained to morality; but faith is a genuine assent of the intellect to truth received by hearing from an external source. By this assent, because of the authority of the supremely truthful God, we believe to be true that which has been revealed and attested to by a personal God, our creator and lord.

Furthermore, with due reverence, I submit and adhere with my whole heart to the condemnations, declarations, and all the prescripts contained in the encyclical Pascendi and in the decree Lamentabili,especially those concerning what is known as the history of dogmas. I also reject the error of those who say that the faith held by the Church can contradict history, and that Catholic dogmas, in the sense in which they are now understood, are irreconcilable with a more realistic view of the origins of the Christian religion. I also condemn and reject the opinion of those who say that a well-educated Christian assumes a dual personality-that of a believer and at the same time of a historian, as if it were permissible for a historian to hold things that contradict the faith of the believer, or to establish premises which, provided there be no direct denial of dogmas, would lead to the conclusion that dogmas are either false or doubtful. Likewise, I reject that method of judging and interpreting Sacred Scripture which, departing from the tradition of the Church, the analogy of faith, and the norms of the Apostolic See, embraces the misrepresentations of the rationalists and with no prudence or restraint adopts textual criticism as the one and supreme norm. Furthermore, I reject the opinion of those who hold that a professor lecturing or writing on a historico-theological subject should first put aside any preconceived opinion about the supernatural origin of Catholic tradition or about the divine promise of help to preserve all revealed truth forever; and that they should then interpret the writings of each of the Fathers solely by scientific principles, excluding all sacred authority, and with the same liberty of judgment that is common in the investigation of all ordinary historical documents.

Finally, I declare that I am completely opposed to the error of the modernists who hold that there is nothing divine in sacred tradition; or what is far worse, say that there is, but in a pantheistic sense, with the result that there would remain nothing but this plain simple fact-one to be put on a par with the ordinary facts of history-the fact, namely, that a group of men by their own labor, skill, and talent have continued through subsequent ages a school begun by Christ and his apostles. I firmly hold, then, and shall hold to my dying breath the belief of the Fathers in the charism of truth, which certainly is, was, and always will be in the succession of the episcopacy from the apostles. The purpose of this is, then, not that dogma may be tailored according to what seems better and more suited to the culture of each age; rather, that the absolute and immutable truth preached by the apostles from the beginning may never be believed to be different, may never be understood in any other way.

I promise that I shall keep all these articles faithfully, entirely, and sincerely, and guard them inviolate, in no way deviating from them in teaching or in any way in word or in writing. Thus I promise, this I swear, so help me God. . .
https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius10/p10moath.htm

I think this document is an even better expression of the main unifying ideas of the forum than which form of Mass people attend.  For example, someone who attended the traditional Mass due its aesthetic appeal, while disagreeing with the Oath, would probably find it difficult to fit in here.  On the other hand, someone who agrees with the Oath, might very well be in circumstances in which it is not feasible to attend the traditional Mass.  I would expect such a person to fit in here with little effort.

I am not saying that every member of this forum agrees with the Oath.  However, the ones who disagree, stand out from the rest.  The rejection of modernism is the necessary corollary of (traditional) Catholicism.  That is the norm of this forum.

Tanny has demonstrated a mocking and contemptuous attitude toward the tenets of the Oath and the people here who hold them.  When a person is firmly entrenched in modernism as he is, there is little hope of him fitting into the forum.  While Tanny implies that his failure to be accepted here shows some sort of fault with the forum and its members, this is not true. There is a basic incompatibility that has little to do with the maturity or charitableness of the forum members.   
« Last Edit: September 22, 2019, 11:28:22 AM by Jayne »
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Offline Xavier

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Re: New Member Seeks Your Input
« Reply #138 on: September 22, 2019, 11:51:34 AM »
Hi, Jayne. Great to see you again! Hope all is well with you. :)

My view is everyone has a right to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ, believe in it and be saved, provided they are not actively trying to disrupt the Faith of others. Just let them come with openness to the Truth, Who is Christ. Our Lord Jesus Christ loves everyone and wants to save us all.

So I see what both sides here are saying and partially agree with each. There is a balance, of course, to be had. Be open to Christ, dear non-Christian friends, and He can transform you, and make you the saints He want to make us all to be. God bless.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2019, 11:56:19 AM by Xavier »
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Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: New Member Seeks Your Input
« Reply #139 on: September 22, 2019, 12:48:23 PM »
Welcom back Jane, I'm happy that you are posting here again and I look forward to your contributions.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 
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Offline The Curt Jester

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Re: New Member Seeks Your Input
« Reply #140 on: September 22, 2019, 02:47:53 PM »
If one is saved no matter what then you shouldn't be demanding that the Church give away all possessions to the poor because it really doesn't matter one way or another. 

Ok, so you don't understand love.

No.  You don't understand your own position.  Your own belief invalidates all your own arguments because BY YOUR OWN BELIEF, NOTHING MATTERS!

If you cannot understand what your own belief system is, don't go trying to explain things to other people.
The royal feast was done; the King
Sought some new sport to banish care,
And to his jester cried: "Sir Fool,
Kneel now, and make for us a prayer!"

The jester doffed his cap and bells,
And stood the mocking court before;
They could not see the bitter smile
Behind the painted grin he wore.

He bowed his head, and bent his knee
Upon the Monarch's silken stool;
His pleading voice arose: "O Lord,
Be merciful to me, a fool!"
 
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Offline St.Justin

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Re: New Member Seeks Your Input
« Reply #141 on: September 22, 2019, 07:25:53 PM »

ECCLESIASTES - Chapter 3:16 I saw under the sun in the place of judgment, wickedness, and in the place of justice, iniquity.

17 And I said in my heart: God shall judge both the just and the wicked, and then shall be the time of every thing.

God is all Love, Justice and Mercy.
 

Offline St.Justin

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Re: New Member Seeks Your Input
« Reply #142 on: September 22, 2019, 08:21:00 PM »
"Prompting Brandmüller's rebuke, published by LifeSiteNews and Austrian news website Kath.net:

    It is to be stated now with insistence that the Instrumentum Laboris contradicts the binding teaching of the Church in decisive points and thus has to be qualified as heretical.

    Inasmuch as even the fact of Divine Revelation is here being questioned, or misunderstood, one also now has to speak, additionally, of apostasy.

    This is even more justified in light of the fact that the Instrumentum Laboris uses a purely immanentist notion of religion and that it considers religion as the result and form of expression of man's own spiritual self-experience. The use of Christian words and notions cannot conceal that these are being merely used as empty words, despite their original meaning.

    The Instrumentum Laboris for the Amazon Synod constitutes an attack on the foundations of the Faith, and in a way that has not heretofore been thought possible. Thus it must be rejected with all decisiveness."

Sound familiar, Tanny?
 
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Offline Miriam_M

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Re: New Member Seeks Your Input
« Reply #143 on: September 22, 2019, 09:23:32 PM »
The rejection of modernism is the necessary corollary of (traditional) Catholicism.  That is the norm of this forum.

Tanny has demonstrated a mocking and contemptuous attitude toward the tenets of the Oath and the people here who hold them.  When a person is firmly entrenched in modernism as he is, there is little hope of him fitting into the forum.  While Tanny implies that his failure to be accepted here shows some sort of fault with the forum and its members, this is not true. There is a basic incompatibility that has little to do with the maturity or charitableness of the forum members.


I agree completely -- with all of this.  Thank you.
 
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