https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Po9C0hlMIg
Francis is an alien who is outside the Church.
A minority of Cardinals and Bishops will call council and declare Francis a heretic and outside the Church. The Council will then appoint those who will elect a new Pope.
Separation. Large Visible anti-Church. Small Underground but True Church.
Most Trads (SSPX, FSSP, ICSK) stay in anti-Church (My opinion). For the most part Trad Catholic Bloggers stay with anti-Church.
Pius XIII?
This has already happened with Pope Michael. And before them SVs, Old Catholics and Palmar de Troya
Unless the SSPX with their 600+ priests joins the newly declared Pope then it is just three wacky bishops.
Besides I doubt there are 3 bishops inside the Roman hierarchy who have any balls.
A bunch of Vatican II modernists break away from Francis. I fail to see how that would constitute a hidden "True Church."
Quote from: King Wenceslas on January 13, 2023, 10:33:24 AMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Po9C0hlMIg
Francis is an alien who is outside the Church.
So was Ratzinger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_BwIKTaJXw
Six months ago, Father Kramer saying what he believes will happen.
He says Sisco and Salza will stay with anti-Church.
Francis's religion is pure masonism. He presents just enough Catholicism to deceive the sleeping Catholics to believe he is a Catholic.
Coming is a false pope and a false religion. No valid sacraments. (Opinion: Similar to the Unitarian church. Anything goes except for the Catholic Faith.)
Enough Christian window dressing to deceive the ones who are asleep.
Proselytization will be outlawed by secular law. Yes, that is right, they will arrest you and throw you into the slammer.
Vatican II is the "anti-Church" "False Pope false religion, no sacraments" is been here since 1965-69 ffdd.
mp3 version
https://mediaarchives.gsradio.net/rense/special/rense_010623_hr3.mp3
The Vatican After The Death
Of The True Pope...Benedict XVI
Fr. Paul Kramer with Jeff Rense
Quote from: King Wenceslas on January 14, 2023, 01:06:51 PMComing is a false pope and a false religion. No valid sacraments.
This has been the situation since Vatican II.
I seriously doubt that the NO Mass is valid. Why would it be?
The one who holds (the Pope) was taken out of the way in 1958 so that the revolt (Vatican II) could happen.
Why would Christ be truly present at the Mass of the revolt.
Read Cardinal Manning's 'The Present Crisis of the Holy See'.
Quote from: awkward customer on January 19, 2023, 05:44:01 AMI seriously doubt that the NO Mass is valid. Why would it be?
Because if the NO is invalid, it would mean that hundreds of millions of Catholics have been deceived and are possibly guilty of idolatry since the NO Precious Bread is not the Body of Christ.
Quote from: AlNg on January 22, 2023, 12:50:04 PMQuote from: awkward customer on January 19, 2023, 05:44:01 AMI seriously doubt that the NO Mass is valid. Why would it be?
Because if the NO is invalid, it would mean that hundreds of millions of Catholics have been deceived and are possibly guilty of idolatry since the NO Precious Bread is not the Body of Christ.
Well, yes, it does mean that a great deception has taken place.
Are you saying it could never happen?
But are the deceived culpable? What about those who lapsed in great numbers as a result of Vatican II? Many Catholics were deeply distressed by the VII changes, shattered even. And then there were those who welcomed the changes with open arms and actively promoted them. Let God decide who's culpable.
The question is - why would Christ be truly present at the mass of the revolt. If Trads refuse to attend the NO Mass, why would Christ be there?
Quote from: AlNg on January 22, 2023, 12:50:04 PMQuote from: awkward customer on January 19, 2023, 05:44:01 AMI seriously doubt that the NO Mass is valid. Why would it be?
Because if the NO is invalid, it would mean that hundreds of millions of Catholics have been deceived and are possibly guilty of idolatry since the NO Precious Bread is not the Body of Christ.
Hundreds of millions of Catholics no longer believe it IS the Precious Body and Blood so they can hardly be guilty of idolatry.
Or sacrilege.
Quote from: Padraig on January 22, 2023, 01:25:33 PMHundreds of millions of Catholics no longer believe it IS the Precious Body and Blood ......
Maybe they have a point.
QuoteThe question is - why would Christ be truly present at the mass of the revolt. If Trads refuse to attend the NO Mass, why would Christ be there?
Maybe to be with his children while his Church is going through its passion.
NO are Catholics also or do you say they are not?
Is the Church down to just 2 or 3 million now? Pretty bold thinking I would say for a layman to state that.
Its hard to state categorically, but based on the consistent responses from polls, it looks like only about 10% of those who attend the N.O. Still hold to the Catholic faith.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_fRPs4LHXo
Mueller, Burk, Schneider, and Trads stay in their ghetto and descend to irrelevance as Satan on the throne of Peter destroys the Church and creates a false Church with no morals and no dogmas. Exactly what +Fulton Sheen said would happen.
Dimond doing a pretty good job of refuting Marshall's: "Pope is manifestly a heretic but I can't judge him because I am just a lowly layman."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x9yaaFHU7A
The hand wringing by Trads throughout the video is priceless. Well worth the 31 minutes of viewing this video.
Key takeaway: "A pope who is a manifest visible heretic in fact is not a pope."
QuoteNotorious in Law - Refers to when a sentence has been passed by a canonical judge or the offender has confessed in court (i.e. a declaration/process).
Notorious in Fact - No declaration or process required. It refers to when the offending action is publicly known and its sinful or imputable character is also publicly known. (@ 4.00 minutes)
(.. an offense is notorious by notoriety of fact, if it is publicly known and committed under such circumstances that it cannot be concealed by any subterfuge, nor excused by any excuse admitted in law (i.e. both the fact of the offense and the immutability or criminal liability must be publicly known)..."
This takes away the belief that one has to wait for a canonical process to occur first before a heretical Pope is removed from the Chair of Peter in the eyes of the Church.
Francis is obviously notorious in fact.
Quote from: King Wenceslas on February 01, 2023, 08:10:20 PMDimond doing a pretty good job of refuting Marshall's: "Pope is manifestly a heretic but I can't judge him because I am just a lowly layman."
This video is from Brother Dimond.
According to Brother Dimond, just about all Catholics today including NO Catholics, SSPX, SSPV, and Eastern Catholics are heretics. Bishop Fellay is a heretic, Bishop Williamson is a heretic, Taylor Marshall is a heretic, Bishop Sanborn is a heretic, and just about everyone else. Since 99.99% of Catholics are heretics, and since a heretic cannot be pope, the only possibility of getting a Pope according to Brother Dimond, would be to elect him as Pope. And i doubt that will happen.
Quote from: AlNg on February 01, 2023, 11:12:40 PMQuote from: King Wenceslas on February 01, 2023, 08:10:20 PMDimond doing a pretty good job of refuting Marshall's: "Pope is manifestly a heretic but I can't judge him because I am just a lowly layman."
This video is from Brother Dimond.
According to Brother Dimond, just about all Catholics today including NO Catholics, SSPX, SSPV, and Eastern Catholics are heretics. Bishop Fellay is a heretic, Bishop Williamson is a heretic, Taylor Marshall is a heretic, Bishop Sanborn is a heretic, and just about everyone else. Since 99.99% of Catholics are heretics, and since a heretic cannot be pope, the only possibility of getting a Pope according to Brother Dimond, would be to elect him as Pope. And i doubt that will happen.
Cardinal Mueller is a VII believer whose eyes are being slowly pried open. Does that mean I am banned from reading any of his material?
Dimond on this point digs much deeper than most and shows the absurdity of R&R via Francis. That Francis is a notorious heretic in fact and needs not to judged by any canonical procedure to make him a notorious heretic.
Nestorius was a notorious heretic in fact several years before he became a notorious heretic in law.
Francis is an alien sitting on the Chair of Peter who someday will be judged as a notorious heretic in law (If he doesn't repent).
The Jews have an office in the Vatican:
https://www.sajr.co.za/revelations-in-rome-as-jewish-leaders-meet-the-pope/
QuoteThe WJC has prioritised interfaith engagement in recent decades, focusing on intensifying ties between world Jewry and the Catholic Church. In a further step towards co-operation, Lauder announced the creation of a WJC office in the Vatican. His organisation would work not only to enhance collaboration between Jewish leaders and the Holy See in international forums, but also to assist those most in need worldwide, including the victims of the war in Ukraine, he said.
Quote"For our 2000-year history, in Rome and in every other locality of the Italian Jewish community, the majestic walls of this Vatican City have always had a meaning of insurmountable limit," Di Segni said. That physical limit that was substantially theological, ideological, of substitution, and thus of supremacy. (Ed. Supremacy is totally true.) Today, how much effort has been made to communicate, to convince that these walls can instead represent solidity and protection, translating closure into defense, persecution into recognition, silence into words of dialogue."
Says it all doesn't it? The very people whose ancestors choose Caesar over Christ now have an office in the very center of the Catholic Church. Francis is fully uniting the physical church with its enemies who directly denied and deny Christ and were and are cast out into utter darkness.
We don't need the Diamond brothers to tell us that a public, formal heretic cannot be Pope. The Doctors and theologians of the Church have told us already, over and over again.
A Pope who falls into heresy automatically loses his office because God no longer recognises the man as Pope. It is then up to the Church to recognise that fact.
In the case of a man who was a public, formal heretic before being elected 'pope', God never recognised the man as Pope to begin with.
Either way, a heretic like Bergoglio, cannot be Pope.
People who push the idea that a heretic can be Pope are in need of some serious self-examination and theological study.
Quote from: King Wenceslas on February 02, 2023, 12:25:08 PMThe Jews have an office in the Vatican:
Because now the Gentiles have also denied Christ.
At least the Jews are honest in their denial, unlike the treacherous Gentiles of the Conciliar Church.
Quote from: awkward customer on February 03, 2023, 05:49:54 AMWe don't need the Diamond brothers to tell us that a public, formal heretic cannot be Pope. The Doctors and theologians of the Church have told us already, over and over again.
You are just not able to absorb any good ideas from anyone who is wrong many or most of the time. Have a good day.
Good quote:
QuoteIn like manner, everyone who has received from God the power of distinguishing and yet follows an unskillful pastor and receives a false opinion for the truth shall be punished... Be not deceived: if any man follows him who separates from the truth, he shall not inherit the kingdom of God; and if any man does not stand aloof from the preacher of falsehood he shall be condemned to Hell.
-St. Ignatius of Antioch
Francis and his reign has been all about correcting God's mistakes in his Church and the world while invalidating the word of God. It's a match made in hell.
Based upon what has been stated above makes Francis a blasphemer.
Quote from: King Wenceslas on February 03, 2023, 02:14:51 PMQuote from: awkward customer on February 03, 2023, 05:49:54 AMWe don't need the Diamond brothers to tell us that a public, formal heretic cannot be Pope. The Doctors and theologians of the Church have told us already, over and over again.
You are just not able to absorb any good ideas from anyone who is wrong many or most of the time. Have a good day.
I messed up the post. It was really meant as a reply to AlNg's comment on the video you posted by the Dimond brothers. It wasn't meant as a criticism of the video simply because the Dimonds made it. But I didn't make this clear. The wording came out wrong too. Sorry about that.
Why are people who have compromised for years, going to go into schism? I don't get it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSF-KW_Ab60
Man willingly takes the clot shot (The Mark) and withers away by the millions into Satan's kingdom.
Thus Satan obtains his ultimate desire. To destroy man and create transhuman man thus becoming like God.
Satan sits on the Chair of Peter and completes the creation of a false Church and a false Christ that everyone follows after except for a small remnant.
He also completes the control of the world by the satanic globalists thus completing Revelation.
In the end the only way to save man from himself is to have a Third World War and a Fiery Ball of Fire that sweeps away all that man has created by his hands since the time of the creation of man.
5 to 7 billion people dead.
Quote from: Greg on February 04, 2023, 11:59:37 AMWhy are people who have compromised for years, going to go into schism? I don't get it.
No kidding. Francis has been publicly accused of heresy. There is no ignorance here.
Quote from: Greg on February 04, 2023, 11:59:37 AMWhy are people who have compromised for years, going to go into schism? I don't get it.
Because they were not wholly displeased with the Church until fairly recently in their lives, and they suspect Bergoglio may be an antipope.
Vigano beating around the bush but still very good:
QuoteThis distressing thought is not out of place when we consider who is sitting today on the Throne of Peter. The Ark of the Church seems to want to welcome anyone, with the exception of those who are actually entitled to be rescued. Indeed, it seems that it is useless, because there will not be any flood to escape from. Or worse: the huge flood causes not by God's wrath but by the tide of men's iniquities is actually considered to be a moment of regeneration, an opportunity to reduce the global population according to the delusional plans of the Great Reset. Just as on the Titanic, the crew and passengers were dancing, inebriated and carefree, while the ship proceeded full speed ahead against the iceberg that would sink it, an arrogant monument to the pride of those who believe that they are exempt from divine justice. The man who ought to be calling us to board the True Ark has also gotten on board this horrid transatlantic liner, and we see him along with the wicked toasting the mighty of the earth, the enemies of God.
But if on the one hand these human considerations can throw us into despair and make us fear for our very survival, on the other hand we can recognize the True Ark of Salvation, because we see her ready on the mount of Calvary where she was built, and on the mystical Calvary of the altar where she waits for us each day.
It matters little that another ark is pointed out to us – even by people in whom we place our trust and who should not be deceiving us – or that there are those who consider it useless and for this reason make fun of us or treat us like we are crazy. It matters little that there are those who deny the impending flood, even as he himself is its impious architect in his foolish presumption of even being able to control atmospheric phenomena with his geo-engineering.
We know that the True Ark, the Only Ark, is the Holy Church. And by the words of Our Lord, the divine Helmsman who holds the rudder firmly, we believe that this Ark will pass through the flood unharmed, and in the end will finally find dry land on which to come to rest. For these reason, we are determined not to let ourselves be deceived, deluding ourselves that we can save ourselves outside this Ark or by building one for ourselves. (As Francis is doing.)
Hopefully, soon, many will see the true Ark and leave the false Ark (the spiritual Titanic) and enter into the true Ark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGqOD8hw4wA
"Pope" Francis' Schism: Are you ready?
A manifest factual heretic is a "Pope". How long does this madness continue?
I suppose since he is in the SSPX he has to toe the party line.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXkMSjWTXP8
Quote@ 4:30 minutes:
Maniacal ideologue surrounded by maniacal yes men who are also ideologues.
In fact lets get right to the num of the matter. He (Francis) hates Roman Catholicism. He hates the Catholic faith as it was practiced down through the centuries. He is an arrogant, ignorant, revolutionary sitting on the chair of Peter. (Ed. Ferrara by his own words is describing Francis as being an anti-Pope.)
@ 8 minutes:
Francis is a party boss. He is the party of the revolution. Revanchism by the Jacobins. Synod is just camouflage for what Francis wants.
Ferrara: Reading the Pope is on heavy doses of steroids. Consistent with stage 4 cancer. Showing himself in a wheelchair. He's severely bloated. Effect of the steroids. Steroids at that level something very serious is going on.
Rumor is the restricting of the TLM to just Sundays for FSSP.
I rest my case. Even the R&R types by their own words say that their Pope is an anti-Pope.
The vital element in all of this, for me, is that Trad Catholics, both R & R and Sede, do not see this for what it is, and there is a lack of urgency. This is the dark army of the Apocalypse advancing. Period. This is the encircling of the camp of the saints mentioned in Apoc. 20.
The problem is that both R & R, and Sedes, are operating under the shadow of a different time, like the nonbelieving "Jews" of the Gospels and Pauline letters, clinging to the Old Covenant when the Messiah of the New walked among them, and after, when the apostles spread His truth.
According to their understanding of the Old Covenant, the law of Moses and its liturgical expression in the Levitical priesthood was "perpetual," and they saw not the Coming of the Chosen One.
He is coming again. We know this more clearly, and "see" better, profess it in our creeds, but we labor under a similar blindness, no, a dimming of sight, rather than a blindness.
The Sedes go so far as to deny what is happening by deceiving themselves that some five or six popes are not really popes, and the R & R by just chalking them up to being simply bad Papas.
The signs which are expressed through Francis show a happening in Rome, and in the Church that was commanded to spread the Gospel, which is unprecedented, truly according with what Christ warned:
Matthew 24:21
For there shall be then great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be.
Never has the Church in its 2,000 plus years witnessed such unprecedented signs as the corresponding liturgical, doctrinal and disciplinary changes of the "Conciliar" Church. These "signs" are so extensive as to include the the actual giving away of the papal tiara up for sale for the poor by Paul VI . . . providing a rough analogy to Judas (another "son of perdition" - cf. John 17:12 with 2 Thessalonians 2) saying about the oil that Mary Magdeline used for anointing the Lord, "it could have been sold for the poor."
Let us all appreciate the urgency.
Off to my Rosary and prayers for mercy, which faileth not.
Signing off from my bunker,
DR
Quoteand there is a lack of urgency
After 60 years in the dessert this tends to happen. Humans are human after all. Staying alert and on your toes for decades is wearing.
What are we supposed to be urgent about? When it happens, it happens.
QuotePope Francis taken to hospital with respiratory infection
Pope Francis has been diagnosed with a respiratory infection, according to the Vatican Press Office.
He was taken to The Gemelli University Hospital in Rome, where he will be required to stay for several days to receive "appropriate medical treatment," the press office said.
"In recent days Pope Francis complained of some respiratory difficulties and this afternoon he went to [Policlinico A.] the Gemelli [hospital]l for some medical checks," the statement read. "The outcome of these showed a respiratory infection (excluding Covid 19 infection) that will require several days of appropriate hospital medical treatment."
It is unknown what type of respiratory infection the pope has or what type of care he will need.
His time is getting closer and closer.
Then do the Cardinals appointed by JPII and Benedict do a quick council and election of a new pope before the "yes men" Cardinals appointed by Francis elect Francis II.
D.R.
QuoteAccording to their understanding of the Old Covenant, the law of Moses and its liturgical expression in the Levitical priesthood was "perpetual," and they saw not the Coming of the Chosen One.
The Jews knew that when the Messiah would come He would set up His new kingdom, and a new perpetual sacrifice, (Malachi 1:11)
Quote""For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts."
In the present case of Catholicism, it is Our Lord who instituted a "New and Eternal Covenant"
Quote
The Sedes go so far as to deny what is happening by deceiving themselves that some five or six popes are not really popes, and the R & R by just chalking them up to being simply bad Papas.
It is of Catholic faith that the Pope cannot lead the church into error, sin or perdition.
Quote
The signs which are expressed through Francis show a happening in Rome, and in the Church that was commanded to spread the Gospel, which is unprecedented, truly according with what Christ warned:
Matthew 24:21
For there shall be then great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be.
Never has the Church in its 2,000 plus years witnessed such unprecedented signs as the corresponding liturgical, doctrinal and disciplinary changes of the "Conciliar" Church. These "signs" are so extensive as to include the the actual giving away of the papal tiara up for sale for the poor by Paul VI . . . providing a rough analogy to Judas (another "son of perdition" - cf. John 17:12 with 2 Thessalonians 2) saying about the oil that Mary Magdeline used for anointing the Lord, "it could have been sold for the poor."
Let us all appreciate the urgency.
Off to my Rosary and prayers for mercy, which faileth not.
We still have bishops priests and laymen who profess and practice the true faith. The promises of Our Lord that He would be with His Church until the end of time; therefore that the Church would last until the end of the world.
Even if the end of the world is now upon us, we are still free to assist at Mass and go to Confession to Catholic priests.
Rome has become an alien to Christianity:
QuoteAn Anglican bishop has triggered outrage after celebrating Mass in the Roman Rite at the Archbasilica of St. John Lateran — the official ecclesiastical seat of the pope as bishop of Rome.
Bishop Jonathan Baker, a suffragan bishop in the diocese of London, concelebrated the liturgy on Tuesday at what's known as the "mother of all the churches of Rome and of the world" with over 30 Anglican priests from the episcopal area of Fulham.
Pope Meets Anglican Prelates
Saint John Lateran supersedes St. Peter's Basilica in primacy, and despite the grandeur of St. Peter's (designated a "basilica" compared to the Lateran "archbasilica"), St. John's remains the cathedral church of the Roman pontiff.
The clerics from Fulham, a traditionalist Anglo-Catholic group that rejects the ordination of women, are in Rome at the Villa Palazzola for their clergy conference — an event held once every three years.
On Wednesday morning, Pope Francis met Bp. Baker and Bp. Glyn Webster, former bishop of Beverly, after the papal audience in St. Peter's Square. The clerics also visited the English College and were treated to a dinner and an after-dinner talk with Cdl. Gerhard Müller, former prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
Freemason Bishop
Baker triggered controversy in the Church of England after he was appointed bishop of Ebbsfleet in 2011 despite being an active and senior Freemason.
While a student at Oxford University, Baker joined the Apollo University Lodge, a masonic lodge associated with the university, and served as its "worshipful master." He held the senior position of deputy grand chaplain in the United Grand Lodge of England.
Baker's Freemason initiation ceremony involved vowing to keep the "secrets of Freemasonry," being blindfolded, wearing a hangman's noose and being warned that those who break the oaths of allegiance will have their throats slit and their tongues torn out before being buried in the sand.
The Mother Church of all Christianity none the less. Pure straight blasphemy. Right in the face of God.
If God does not intervene there will be a North American Catholic Church within 20 to 30 years.
How that comes about remains to be seen.
Jonathan Baker is not a Freemason anymore. Although he was a member of the Apollo Lodge, that is a matriculating Oxford student lodge, which is more of a fraternal society for Oxford students, but as he moved up the ranks of the Church of England, he did leave in an official manner. That is on his wiki page.
Baker and Webster are among the High Anglican, conservative wing in the Church of England. This rapproachment will ultimately lead to more Anglican Ordinariates and the Vatican stands to receive more parishes as traditionalists in the CoE refuse to attend "masses" and "sacraments" ministered by females. There is some level of cooperation between conservative CoE parishes and the Crown including Catholic priests celebrating Mass at CoE cathedrals.
Anyway, I just wanted you to know that an official APOLOGY with FORMAL CULPABILITY has been issued by Auxiliary Bishop Guerino Di Tora of Rome, who did this on his own accord. It has nothing to do with Francis. And, all in attendance were traditionalist Anglican "priests". Not a single canonical Catholic religious or layperson went to this Latin Rite mass performed by Anglicans for themselves:
******
ROME (CNS)—A "breakdown in communication" led to permission being given to a group of Anglican clergy to celebrate the Eucharist in Rome's Basilica of St. John Lateran, said Auxiliary Bishop Guerino Di Tora of Rome, vicar for the basilica's chapter.
Anglican Bishop Jonathan Baker of Fulham, a suffragan bishop with responsibility for Anglo-Catholic parishes in the dioceses of London and Southwark that have requested not to be served by a woman priest or bishop, celebrated the liturgy April 18 as part of a conference in Rome for Anglo-Catholic clergy.
A statement April 20 from the Lateran Chapter said Bishop Di Tora "expresses deep regret for what happened last Tuesday, April 18, inside the Basilica of St. John in Rome. In fact, a group of about 50 priests, accompanied by their bishop, all belonging to the Anglican Communion, celebrated at the main altar of Rome's cathedral, contravening canonical norms."
Benedictine Father Martin Browne, an official at the Dicastery for Promoting Christian Unity, noted the apology, but said, "I also think that everyone acted in good faith and without any intent to cause offense or embarrassment to anyone else. That the celebration has caused comment is perhaps, above all else, a reminder of the need to pray continually for the Lord's gift of unity, so that all may one day celebrate at the same altar the saving mysteries of the one Lord."
The Vatican "Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism" states that Catholic churches are "generally reserved for Catholic worship," Father Browne said in a statement April 20.
However, he said, "it does not rule out celebrations by communities not in full communion with the Catholic Church," although it does say that such hospitality can be offered when other Christians "do not have a place or the liturgical objects necessary for celebrating worthily their religious ceremonies."
While the visiting Anglicans could have celebrated at the Anglican parish in the center of Rome, Father Browne said the directory also encourages "a certain 'reciprocity' since sharing in spiritual activities and resources, even with defined limits, is a contribution, in a spirit of mutual good will and charity, to the growth of harmony among Christians."
"One presumes that the request was granted in that spirit of reciprocity, welcoming what was clearly an Anglican pilgrim group," he said. In the same way, "many of the great historical cathedrals of the Church of England occasionally welcome groups from other churches, including the Catholic Church, to celebrate the Eucharist and such hospitable gestures are always appreciated."
Still, he said, "it would have been more appropriate if this dicastery and other relevant entities of the Holy See had been involved in considering the request."
Father Browne also clarified that "the celebration took place in the apse, which was clearly roped off, with staff on duty throughout the celebration. No members of the public nor anybody else was present or nearby," so there was no chance that a pilgrim or tourist could have attended and thought it was a Catholic Mass.
https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2023/04/20/rome-basilica-apologizes-anglicans-celebrate-mass-245154
I think the schism is already here. Slowly the faith of billion Catholics has been changed, just like in the reformation by the change of liturgical rites.
Quote from: Jmartyr on April 30, 2023, 03:53:55 PMI think the schism is already here. Slowly the faith of billion Catholics has been changed, just like in the reformation by the change of liturgical rites.
Fr. Paul Kramer speaks of a formal schism.
Quote from: King Wenceslas on March 29, 2023, 01:44:05 PMQuotePope Francis taken to hospital with respiratory infection
Pope Francis has been diagnosed with a respiratory infection, according to the Vatican Press Office.
He was taken to The Gemelli University Hospital in Rome, where he will be required to stay for several days to receive "appropriate medical treatment," the press office said.
"In recent days Pope Francis complained of some respiratory difficulties and this afternoon he went to [Policlinico A.] the Gemelli [hospital]l for some medical checks," the statement read. "The outcome of these showed a respiratory infection (excluding Covid 19 infection) that will require several days of appropriate hospital medical treatment."
It is unknown what type of respiratory infection the pope has or what type of care he will need.
His time is getting closer and closer.
Then do the Cardinals appointed by JPII and Benedict do a quick council and election of a new pope before the "yes men" Cardinals appointed by Francis elect Francis II.
Francis II would be the 7th false Pope of the Revolt.
I wonder if the number 7 is significant somehow.
Quote from: Jmartyr on April 30, 2023, 03:53:55 PMI think the schism is already here.
Yes. AFAIK, schism is the refusal to submit to the authority of the Roman Pontiff and the hierarchy of the Church and we see that today. And we see a strong belief (but only by a few) in the heresy that the Catholic church can defect from its mission.
7th Pope?
I make it 6.
Unless you include Pius XII.
Quote from: Greg on May 02, 2023, 07:29:00 PM7th Pope?
I make it 6.
Unless you include Pius XII.
The six are - John 23rd, Paul 6th, John Paul I who died after 33 days, John Paul II, Benedict 16, Francis I. That's six False Popes of the Revolt.
If there is a Francis II, which was the point I was replying to, he would be the seventh False Pope of the Revolt.
Quote from: awkward customer on May 02, 2023, 10:16:07 AMQuote from: King Wenceslas on March 29, 2023, 01:44:05 PMQuotePope Francis taken to hospital with respiratory infection
Pope Francis has been diagnosed with a respiratory infection, according to the Vatican Press Office.
He was taken to The Gemelli University Hospital in Rome, where he will be required to stay for several days to receive "appropriate medical treatment," the press office said.
"In recent days Pope Francis complained of some respiratory difficulties and this afternoon he went to [Policlinico A.] the Gemelli [hospital]l for some medical checks," the statement read. "The outcome of these showed a respiratory infection (excluding Covid 19 infection) that will require several days of appropriate hospital medical treatment."
It is unknown what type of respiratory infection the pope has or what type of care he will need.
His time is getting closer and closer.
Then do the Cardinals appointed by JPII and Benedict do a quick council and election of a new pope before the "yes men" Cardinals appointed by Francis elect Francis II.
Francis II would be the 7th false Pope of the Revolt.
I wonder if the number 7 is significant somehow.
It's my understanding that 7 is a biblical number. It's used quite a few times. And it's meaning is "completion". The 7th false pope would surely be a completion, wouldn't it?
Quote from: DecemRationes on March 02, 2023, 08:33:03 AMThe Sedes go so far as to deny what is happening by deceiving themselves that some five or six popes are not really popes, and the R & R by just chalking them up to being simply bad Papas.
Yes. A change has taken place. My guess (FWIW) is that there will be further development in teaching and discipline.
Quote from: Baylee on May 03, 2023, 12:54:40 PMThe 7th false pope would surely be a completion, wouldn't it?
Speculation on the basis of numerology is suspect.
Quote from: AlNg on May 03, 2023, 01:37:05 PMQuote from: Baylee on May 03, 2023, 12:54:40 PMThe 7th false pope would surely be a completion, wouldn't it?
Speculation on the basis of numerology is suspect.
Is it "numerology" when we speak of the 7 days of Creation? The 7 sacraments?
I'm just saying that 7 is an important number in our Faith. It wouldn't surprise me if there were 7 false popes.
Quote from: Baylee on May 03, 2023, 03:21:05 PMQuote from: AlNg on May 03, 2023, 01:37:05 PMQuote from: Baylee on May 03, 2023, 12:54:40 PMThe 7th false pope would surely be a completion, wouldn't it?
Speculation on the basis of numerology is suspect.
Is it "numerology" when we speak of the 7 days of Creation? The 7 sacraments?
I'm just saying that 7 is an important number in our Faith. It wouldn't surprise me if there were 7 false popes.
I am not into the numerology of the number 7:
https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=Awr.zIXR11JkvhgAbZv7w8QF;_ylu=c2VjA3NlYXJjaAR2dGlkAw--;_ylc=X1MDOTY3ODEzMDcEX3IDMgRmcgNtY2FmZWUEZnIyA3A6cyx2OnYsbTpzYixyZ246dG9wBGdwcmlkAzFiN0FVMTJzUkRPejBXUTNuWll0VEEEbl9yc2x0AzAEbl9zdWdnAzAEb3JpZ2luA3ZpZGVvLnNlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20EcG9zAzAEcHFzdHIDBHBxc3RybAMwBHFzdHJsAzI3BHF1ZXJ5A251bWVyb2xvZ3klMjBhbmQlMjB0aGUlMjBudW1iZXIlMjA3BHRfc3RtcAMxNjgzMTUwOTA0?p=numerology+and+the+number+7&ei=UTF-8&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av%2Cm%3Asb%2Crgn%3Atop&fr=mcafee&type=E210US91088G0#id=3&vid=7852795210880aaa9fac71c0c2b7a1e9&action=view
7 is a Holy number. 6 is the number of man/Satan
Besides that, by what act do we condemn John Paul I?
Quote from: Greg on May 03, 2023, 05:40:49 PM6 is the number of man/Satan.
Is that a teaching of the Roman Catholic Church or did you just make that up? Can you show us where in the Catechism of the Catholic Church it says that "6 is the number of man/Satan." I am suspicious of numerology or any attempt to assign an occult or mystical relationship between a number and a historical phenomenon..
According to the Catholic Encyclopedia:
" The lighting of six candles upon the altar is now enjoined for every high Mass.."
https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/candles
Why should a Catholic believe that 6 is the number of man/Satan?
Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six. From the Book of Revelation.
I am not subscribing to or promoting numerology. But if one were to then 6 is a more man like number than 7.
Also notice that the Book of Revelation says "here is wisdom" and "let him who hath understanding count the number" etc. It is trying to teach something or alert the reader to something. So it would appear that numbers in some form do have some meaning. Regardless of what the Church teaches.
Quote from: Greg on May 03, 2023, 05:40:49 PM.... by what act do we condemn John Paul I?
I wondered about this too. Can he be condemned on the assumption that if he hadn't been fully on board with the Revolt, he wouldn't have been elected. I don't know.
Some have even claimed that he was assassinated because he threatened to reverse the Council. I've no idea, to be honest.
If JP I is not included, then we're on our fifth False Pope of the Revolt. One more would make it six.
All conciliar popes up to and including Benedict XVI have been true popes. Jorge Bergoglio is an antipope.
Quote from: Catholic Knight on May 04, 2023, 06:08:23 AMAll conciliar popes up to and including Benedict XVI have been true popes. Jorge Bergoglio is an antipope.
Or, Vatican II is the Revolt warned about by St Paul and the Conciliar popes all of them, are false popes of the revolt.
(Except maybe JPI.)
Quote from: Greg on May 03, 2023, 05:40:49 PM6 is the number of man/Satan
Six is not a Satanic number because there are six holy candles at High Mass and there are six Our Fathers said in a rosary (of 5 decades). Numerology is suspect. I don't take everything in the Book of Revelation literally. For example, I am not sure about whether or not there are animals such as white horses galloping around in heaven. Rev. 19.
If we are not to take it literally then why does it exhort us to be saying "here is wisdom" and "let him who hath understanding count the number"?
That is literally like a health warning on a packet of cigarettes. Literal in the extreme.
I'm not suggesting that you take EVERYTHING the book of revelation says literally. I am suggesting that that part of it suggests that you do listen and have understanding and it mentions a specific number 6 6 6
Quote from: AlNg on May 04, 2023, 08:22:37 AMQuote from: Greg on May 03, 2023, 05:40:49 PM6 is the number of man/Satan
Six is not a Satanic number because there are six holy candles at High Mass and there are six Our Fathers said in a rosary (of 5 decades).
There are only 5 Our Fathers in a rosary. Unless you are praying for Bergoglio who is a servant of Satan.
According to this, the number 7 appears 57 times in the Book of Revelations.
https://revelationscriptures.com/seven-in-revelation/
Quote from: Greg on May 04, 2023, 09:00:55 AMThere are only 5 Our Fathers in a rosary.
I thought there were 6 Our Fathers in a rosary.
"How many Our Fathers in a rosary?
The rosary consists of six Our Father beads and five decades (sets of ten) Hail Mary Beads plus one set of three Hail Mary beads. The Apostles' Creed is said on the crucifix, and the Glory Be is said on the chain or knot after each set of Hail Marys."
https://teacherscollegesj.org/how-many-hail-marys-and-our-fathers-in-the-rosary/
There are 6 our Fathers. Two in the beginning 4 in the rest, in a typical five Decade Dominican rosary.
https://www.answers.com/Q/How_many_Our_Fathers_in_a_Rosary
https://www.usccb.org/how-to-pray-the-rosary
A rosary has 53 Hail Mary beads, and 6 Our Father beads.
https://www.answers.com/Q/How_many_beads_are_on_a_Catholic_Rosary
.
This should provide some clarity when discussing numbers used by the Church. We are not using "numerology".
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11151a.htm
...although the Fathers repeatedly condemned the magical use of numbers which had descended from Babylonian sources to the Pythagoreans and Gnostics of their times, and although they denounced any system of their philosophy which rested upon an exclusively numerical basis, still they almost unanimously regarded the numbers of Holy Writ as full of mystical meaning, and they considered the interpretation of these mystical meanings as an important branch of exegesis.
There are 5 decades, so 5 Our Fathers.
Quote from: Greg on May 04, 2023, 09:44:15 PMThere are 5 decades, so 5 Our Fathers.
Not the complete rosary prayer.
Praying the Rosary
Familiarize yourself and/or your group with the prayers of the rosary.
Make the Sign of the Cross.
Holding the Crucifix, say the Apostles' Creed.
On the first bead, say an Our Father.
Say one Hail Mary on each of the next three beads.
Say the Glory Be
For each of the five decades, announce the Mystery (perhaps followed by a brief reading from Scripture) then say the Our Father.
While fingering each of the ten beads of the decade, next say ten Hail Marys while meditating on the Mystery. Then say a Glory Be.
(After finishing each decade, some say the following prayer requested by the Blessed Virgin Mary at Fatima: O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell; lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who have most need of your mercy.)
After saying the five decades, say the Hail, Holy Queen, followed by this dialogue and prayer:
V. Pray for us, O holy Mother of God.
R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.
Let us pray: O God, whose Only Begotten Son, by his life, Death, and Resurrection, has purchased for us the rewards of eternal life, grant, we beseech thee, that while meditating on these mysteries of the most holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary, we may imitate what they contain and obtain what they promise, through the same Christ our Lord. Amen.
https://www.usccb.org/how-to-pray-the-rosary
You have omitted the beginning prayers of the rosary:
Make the Sign of the Cross.
Holding the Crucifix, say the Apostles' Creed.
On the first bead, say an Our Father.
Say one Hail Mary on each of the next three beads.
Say the Glory Be
Quote from: Greg on May 04, 2023, 09:00:55 AMThere are only 5 Our Fathers in a rosary.
Bishop Barron explains how to pray the rosary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXcWknfC0vI
Please note that there are 6 Our Fathers in a rosary as you can see from this video.
I'll pass thanks. Bishop Barron does not even know how to be a Catholic.
Quote from: Greg on May 05, 2023, 06:43:38 AMI'll pass thanks. Bishop Barron does not even know how to be a Catholic.
Even this Protestant was rightfully scandalized by Barron's cowardice. "For fear of the Jews..."
https://youtu.be/4WFeTKH2UtE
Quote from: Greg on May 05, 2023, 06:43:38 AMI'll pass thanks. Bishop Barron does not even know how to be a Catholic.
LOL. When someone peddles "Bishop" Barron, then you know what you're dealing with. However, there are 6 Our Fathers in the Rosary. There is an extra Our Father at the beginning. Do you pray the Rosary?
Yes, but I ignore the beads on the pendant.
Quote from: Baylee on May 05, 2023, 11:50:23 AMHowever, there are 6 Our Fathers in the Rosary.
Correct.
Quote from: Greg on May 04, 2023, 09:00:55 AMThere are only 5 Our Fathers in a rosary.
Here is another example of praying the rosary. I believe that there are 6 Our Fathers and 53 Hail Marys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgtJ-sFzWww
Quote from: Greg on May 03, 2023, 05:40:49 PM6 is the number of man/Satan
Still not sure why there are 6 Our Fathers in a Rosary and 6 candles at High Mass if 6 is the number of man/Satan.
Some say 7 is a lucky number and 13 is unlucky. But isn't numerology a form of superstition?
Coming schism means that there is the recognition of the present leadership. There is no schism yet.
A Catholic layman speaks truth to the Cardinals:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq5son9ILyg
Quote from: Bonaventure on May 05, 2023, 10:00:33 AMQuote from: Greg on May 05, 2023, 06:43:38 AMI'll pass thanks. Bishop Barron does not even know how to be a Catholic.
Even this Protestant was rightfully scandalized by Barron's cowardice. "For fear of the Jews..."
Barron totally misrepresents the meaning of the Vatican II documents. Nowhere do they say atheists or Jews are saved. Vatican II uses 1 Tim. 2:4 as a reason for working with men of good will in cooperation only.
Quote from: AlNg on May 05, 2023, 01:15:24 PMQuote from: Baylee on May 05, 2023, 11:50:23 AMHowever, there are 6 Our Fathers in the Rosary.
Correct.
Quote from: Greg on May 04, 2023, 09:00:55 AMThere are only 5 Our Fathers in a rosary.
Here is another example of praying the rosary. I believe that there are 6 Our Fathers and 53 Hail Marys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgtJ-sFzWww
Quote from: Greg on May 03, 2023, 05:40:49 PM6 is the number of man/Satan
Still not sure why there are 6 Our Fathers in a Rosary and 6 candles at High Mass if 6 is the number of man/Satan.
Some say 7 is a lucky number and 13 is unlucky. But isn't numerology a form of superstition?
The Dominican Rosary only has 5 Our Fathers
https://thefriar.org/pray-the-rosary/how-to-pray-the-dominican-rosary/?amp
https://spvchurch.org/dominican-way-o-fpraying-the-rosary
Quote from: Acolyte on May 12, 2023, 10:14:00 PMThe Dominican Rosary only has 5 Our Fathers
That is interesting. Here are a group of Catholic men praying the rosary. How many Our Fathers do you count here? I think it is six at least if you start from the beginning of the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_6Z7ce1zvo&t=5s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_6Z7ce1zvo
Quote from: AlNg on May 12, 2023, 10:52:36 PMQuote from: Acolyte on May 12, 2023, 10:14:00 PMThe Dominican Rosary only has 5 Our Fathers
That is interesting. Here are a group of Catholic men praying the rosary. How many Our Fathers do you count here? I think it is six at least if you start from the beginning of the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_6Z7ce1zvo&t=5s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_6Z7ce1zvo
Yes, it can be prayed the more recent/common way, or the Dominican way. The Dominican way introductory prayers before the first mystery are different, using the Divine Office intro prayers. No Our Father until the Mysteries begin.
I highly doubt Our Lady sees one way or the other wrong. I'm fine with either way but when I pray the Rosary alone I pray the Dominican Rosary.
Evedently the Dominicans are fine with either way.
https://www.english.op.org/about-us/rosary/how-to-pray-the-rosary/
Quote from: AlNg on January 22, 2023, 12:50:04 PMQuote from: awkward customer on January 19, 2023, 05:44:01 AMI seriously doubt that the NO Mass is valid. Why would it be?
Because if the NO is invalid, it would mean that hundreds of millions of Catholics have been deceived and are possibly guilty of idolatry since the NO Precious Bread is not the Body of Christ.
I agree that the position that there have been no valid sacraments since the Council is highly problematic.
The rest of you seriously believe that you yourselves have received no sacramental graces in your lifetimes? I have not experienced that and do not believe it. I believe that it is considerably more difficult to dispose oneself correctly to receive any sacrament in the non-traditional rites. I believe also that the traditional rites (including Baptism, Confirmation, Ordination, for example) are probably more efficacious, given that trad rites include more exorcisms in the prayers and make the receivers more conscious of the transcendent power of these rites.
However, Fr. Ripperger is one exorcist who says that
there is no difference in the power of N.O. hosts vs. traditionally consecrated hosts to the demons, who recognize both equally.
Indeed Miriam, and that means they are both efficacious. He further explained that the Holy Church is incapable of creating a heretic rite. However, he was emphatic about the TLM being more pleasing to God because it is all about correct adoration, but he was so sure that the rite of NO is as effective as TLM in terms of validity.
For sure there are aspects of the Holy Mass which he discussed that can be more pleasing to God like the beauty of the songs, the kind of chalice used, the vestments and the entire beauty of the Church because we offer what is best to God. I just want to add that he also made comments on offer of sufferings. We are not suppose to offer that, we must offer the extent of our willingness to suffer for the suffering itself is not good but the willingness in the name of God speaks of excellence.
Francis once again proving he is not the pope:
QuoteLifeSiteNews.com reported on June 14, 2023:
by Michael Haynes
Pope Francis has once again written to prominent pro-LGBT Jesuit Father James Martin, praising the priest for his LGBT advocacy and offering support for a pro-LGBT conference Martin is scheduled to hold.
The letter was dated May 6, 2023, and was written by hand by the Pope, in Spanish. Outreach, Martin's own "LGBTQ Catholic resource" group, released an image of the letter on June 14, along with translations of the Pope's words.
Addressing Martin as "dear brother" – as has become Francis' norm in the now not infrequent letters he sends to the American Jesuit – the Pope wrote:
Thank you very much for your email. Thank you for all the good you are doing. Thank you!
I pray for you, please do so for me.
I send my best regards to the members of the meeting at Fordham University. Thank you for delivering it to them. In my prayers and good wishes are you and all who are working at the Outreach Conference.
Again, thank you, thank you for your witness.
May Jesus bless you and the Holy Virgin take care of you.
Fraternally,
Francisco
Quote from: Miriam_M on May 29, 2023, 09:58:28 AMHowever, Fr. Ripperger is one exorcist who says that there is no difference in the power of N.O. hosts vs. traditionally consecrated hosts to the demons, who recognize both equally.
Demons are liars.
Quote from: awkward customer on June 16, 2023, 10:20:23 AMQuote from: Miriam_M on May 29, 2023, 09:58:28 AMHowever, Fr. Ripperger is one exorcist who says that there is no difference in the power of N.O. hosts vs. traditionally consecrated hosts to the demons, who recognize both equally.
Demons are liars.
Why would any Catholic listen to what the demons say regarding the validity of the Novus Ordo consecrations? Besides Fr Ripperger was ordained in the New Rite of the Novus Ordo ordination, no? Wouldn't he tend towards believing the NO consecration is valid anyway?
Quote from: Baylee on June 16, 2023, 12:32:40 PMQuote from: awkward customer on June 16, 2023, 10:20:23 AMQuote from: Miriam_M on May 29, 2023, 09:58:28 AMHowever, Fr. Ripperger is one exorcist who says that there is no difference in the power of N.O. hosts vs. traditionally consecrated hosts to the demons, who recognize both equally.
Demons are liars.
Why would any Catholic listen to what the demons say regarding the validity of the Novus Ordo consecrations? Besides Fr Ripperger was ordained in the New Rite of the Novus Ordo ordination, no? Wouldn't he tend towards believing the NO consecration is valid anyway?
Had to look this up: He was "ordained" in the new rite by Pseudo-Bishop Edward James Slattery of Tulsa; so, yes, he is basically just a well educated layman.
On the new rite of ordination, which rite is it compared to ?
If it's the one in use the day before JXXIII called the VII council, what is the precise argument the new rite is invalid ?
Quote from: Acolyte on June 16, 2023, 09:29:44 PMOn the new rite of ordination, which rite is it compared to ?
If it's the one in use the day before JXXIII called the VII council, what is the precise argument the new rite is invalid ?
The new rite of priestly ordination is basically the same and would still be valid at least in matter and form. However, in the new rite of Episcopal Consecration it is completely different and distinctly lacks the elements Pius XII defined as necessary for validity in
Sacramentum Ordinis.
Likewise, many of the arguments advanced by Pope Leo XIII for the invalidity of Anglican Orders in
Apostolicae Curae also apply against the new rite of Episcopal Consecration.
And, of course, only valid bishops can ordain valid priests.
Cf. http://www.fathercekada.com/2013/11/06/1968-rite-of-episcopal-consecration-valid-or-no/
Quote from: Robert on June 16, 2023, 09:52:08 PMQuote from: Acolyte on June 16, 2023, 09:29:44 PMOn the new rite of ordination, which rite is it compared to ?
If it's the one in use the day before JXXIII called the VII council, what is the precise argument the new rite is invalid ?
The new rite of priestly ordination is basically the same and would still be valid at least in matter and form. However, in the new rite of Episcopal Consecration it is completely different and distinctly lacks the elements Pius XII defined as necessary for validity in Sacramentum Ordinis.
Likewise, many of the arguments advanced by Pope Leo XIII for the invalidity of Anglican Orders in Apostolicae Curae also apply against the new rite of Episcopal Consecration.
And, of course, only valid bishops can ordain valid priests.
Cf. http://www.fathercekada.com/2013/11/06/1968-rite-of-episcopal-consecration-valid-or-no/
Ok, thanks. I'll read Sacramentum Ordinis.
Quote from: Julio on May 29, 2023, 10:44:13 PMIndeed Miriam, and that means they are both efficacious. He further explained that the Holy Church is incapable of creating a heretic rite. However, he was emphatic about the TLM being more pleasing to God because it is all about correct adoration, but he was so sure that the rite of NO is as effective as TLM in terms of validity.
For sure there are aspects of the Holy Mass which he discussed that can be more pleasing to God like the beauty of the songs, the kind of chalice used, the vestments and the entire beauty of the Church because we offer what is best to God. I just want to add that he also made comments on offer of sufferings. We are not suppose to offer that, we must offer the extent of our willingness to suffer for the suffering itself is not good but the willingness in the name of God speaks of excellence.
I can understand discouragement among the laity regarding the hierarchy's apparent defection from the faith -- or the apparent defection of quite a few of them. However, what I cannot understand is why anyone who claims that the enormous majority of hosts consecrated in the new rite, and the ordinations of the new rite, are "not valid" would want to remain a Catholic.
Catholicism is distinct from other religions in so many ways, but not all of the features that make Catholicism distinct rise to an essential or foundational level. In terms of spirituality, and for emotional reasons, I find the Communion of Saints a great comfort. I also find devotion to Our Mother and faith in her to be essential not only as the Church has described that but also for personal reasons. Those two elements are not present in Protestant sects and other false religions.
Yet even those are not as defining to the faith as sacraments. Sacraments are the only way a human being can share in the divine life. They are the most powerful spiritual aids in this earthly life. If I believed as Sede Vacantes do, that a very tiny minority of hosts are truly consecrated every day, I would either stop practicing entirely, or I would join a non-Catholic religion, like Judaism. The same applies to the matter of "invalid" ordinations, for related reasons.
Sanctifying grace is the invaluable and immeasurable difference between Catholicism and all other religions. I can't imagine "deciding" on my own, without authority, that hosts are not consecrated or priests are not ordained, but if by some unlikely chance I took that step, I would not identify with the sect of SV'ism because the Catholicism represented by SV'ism concludes that Jesus Christ has abandoned His sheep to the wolves and to the World and has done so for 60 years. That would be a faith not worth believing in, for me.
Quote from: Robert on June 16, 2023, 09:52:08 PMQuote from: Acolyte on June 16, 2023, 09:29:44 PMOn the new rite of ordination, which rite is it compared to ?
If it's the one in use the day before JXXIII called the VII council, what is the precise argument the new rite is invalid ?
The new rite of priestly ordination is basically the same and would still be valid at least in matter and form. However, in the new rite of Episcopal Consecration it is completely different and distinctly lacks the elements Pius XII defined as necessary for validity in Sacramentum Ordinis.
Likewise, many of the arguments advanced by Pope Leo XIII for the invalidity of Anglican Orders in Apostolicae Curae also apply against the new rite of Episcopal Consecration.
And, of course, only valid bishops can ordain valid priests.
Cf. http://www.fathercekada.com/2013/11/06/1968-rite-of-episcopal-consecration-valid-or-no/
Yes, the main issue is the Rite of Episcopal Consecration (although the small change to the form of the Rite of Priestly Ordination is troublesome as well...why make the "small" change at all?).
That's a good link Robert. It has Father Cekada's (RIP) original study and his responses to the various objections.
It is certainly noteworthy that "Pope" Francis is the first conciliar pope who was both ordained AND consecrated in the new rites (all others were at least priests). Seems to me this could have a lot to do with why so many Catholics started to question everything under his "pontificate".
Quote from: Acolyte on June 16, 2023, 09:29:44 PMOn the new rite of ordination, which rite is it compared to ?
If it's the one in use the day before JXXIII called the VII council, what is the precise argument the new rite is invalid ?
It is not. It was promulgated in 1968, and I believe it was used to ordain new priests sometime in 1969. Of course, the bulk of the new bishops probably didn't happen for some time after that since most bishops at that time were already consecrated in the old rite.
Quote from: Miriam_M on June 17, 2023, 03:09:28 AMSanctifying grace is the invaluable and immeasurable difference between Catholicism and all other religions. I can't imagine "deciding" on my own, without authority, that hosts are not consecrated or priests are not ordained, but if by some unlikely chance I took that step, I would not identify with the sect of SV'ism because the Catholicism represented by SV'ism concludes that Jesus Christ has abandoned His sheep to the wolves and to the World and has done so for 60 years. That would be a faith not worth believing in, for me.
Why would Christ be truly present at the Mass of the Revolt?
See St Paul's Second Letter to the Thessalonians, Chapter 2.
Six decades without a Pope is entirely in keeping with St Paul's predictions.
Quote from: Miriam_M on June 17, 2023, 03:09:28 AMIf I believed as Sede Vacantes do, that a very tiny minority of hosts are truly consecrated every day, I would either stop practicing entirely, or I would join a non-Catholic religion, like Judaism.
Would you choose Judaism over the Greek Orthodox Church? There seems to be widespread agreement that the Greek Orthodox Church has valid Sacraments.
Quote from: AlNg on June 17, 2023, 09:54:26 AMQuote from: Miriam_M on June 17, 2023, 03:09:28 AMIf I believed as Sede Vacantes do, that a very tiny minority of hosts are truly consecrated every day, I would either stop practicing entirely, or I would join a non-Catholic religion, like Judaism.
Would you choose Judaism over the Greek Orthodox Church? There seems to be widespread agreement that the Greek Orthodox Church has valid Sacraments.
I have attended their services and don't care for them, but again, I'm very clear in my understanding that laypeople don't "decide," based on "widespread" (or minority) "agreement" that Independent Sect A or Religion B has "valid Sacraments." The umbrella difference between Catholicism and every other religion is that we derive our authority from Jesus Christ, through St. Peter and his successors. The truth of the religion is not based on popularity, polls, or informal agreement and disagreement, including concepts born from the laity or dissenting priests. Regarding the latter, if such concepts are part of the tradition of the Church, then they're not new at all but integral to the Church, and therefore leaving the head of the church, however disappointing that head may be, is not a Catholic thing to do.
Mr. Michael Davies in his book, "The Order of Melchisedech" stated
QuoteMichael Davies: "The problem which the new ordination rite poses faithful Catholics is that it does not contain a single mandatory prayer signifying that the grace and power of the priesthood is chiefly the power of consecrating and offering the Body and Blood of our Lord.
Further:
Quote"The Order of Melchisedech" Intro. pg. xix:
"My complaint against the new Catholic rite of ordination is not that is invalid but that it lends itself to the ambiguous interpretation to which, as Dr. Stockwood testifies, the Anglican rite is open. It can be also be used to undermine the teaching of "Apostolicae Curae". Anglican apologists will have no difficulty in pointing out that the arguments used by Pope Leo XIII against the Anglican rite can now be applied to the new Catholic rite".
QuoteThe total revision of both rites leaves one in the same position of Catholics in England in face of the clergy ordained with the revised rites of Thomas Cramner; as the Catholic bishops of England stated so clearly and forcefully in their "Vindication of Apostolicae Curae" where they warned against the omitting or reforming of the traditional rites
Quote"Their (the Catholic Bishops) judgement on such omissions is unanimous-that what is not affirmed is considered to be denied. This was a key pint in the Vindication of the Bull Apostolicase Curae published by the Catholic Bishops of the Province of Westminster in 1898. They warned against omitting or reforming: 'anything in those forms which immemorial Tradition has bequeathed to us. For such an immemorial usage, whether or not it has in the course of ages incorporated superfluous accretions, must, in the estimation of those who believe in a divinely guarded, visible Church, at least have retained whatever is necessary: so that in adhering rigidly to the rite handed down to us we can always feel secure; whereas, if we omit or change anything, we may perhaps be abandoning just that element which is essential. And this sound method is that which the Catholic Church has always followed...
Quote from: Acolyte on June 16, 2023, 10:28:04 PMQuote from: Robert on June 16, 2023, 09:52:08 PMQuote from: Acolyte on June 16, 2023, 09:29:44 PMOn the new rite of ordination, which rite is it compared to ?
If it's the one in use the day before JXXIII called the VII council, what is the precise argument the new rite is invalid ?
The new rite of priestly ordination is basically the same and would still be valid at least in matter and form. However, in the new rite of Episcopal Consecration it is completely different and distinctly lacks the elements Pius XII defined as necessary for validity in Sacramentum Ordinis.
Likewise, many of the arguments advanced by Pope Leo XIII for the invalidity of Anglican Orders in Apostolicae Curae also apply against the new rite of Episcopal Consecration.
And, of course, only valid bishops can ordain valid priests.
Cf. http://www.fathercekada.com/2013/11/06/1968-rite-of-episcopal-consecration-valid-or-no/
Ok, thanks. I'll read Sacramentum Ordinis.
For the sake of completion, here is the pro-validity view:
https://youtu.be/wlEsReiIMyc
From over at Gloria TV:
QuoteFrancis Says His Breathing "Not Good"
Francis' breathing is still "not good" and he is suffering from the effects of his recent anaesthesia, he told the Works of Aid to the Oriental Churches ...
Kenjiro M. Yoshimori
I've been texting my Uncle who is a Cardiologist in Los Angeles all day. He must be ready to punch me! 😂 Not really! He's a great Uncle, and an excellent Cardiologist. He also works as a PC (Personal Care Physician) for many patients. He has 2 offices, 1 in L.A., and the other in Alhambra, Ca. But I've been texting him about this issue of Pope Francis, and he said that this is NOT good.
He said, generally, people recover from anathesia in 1-2-3 days....not 15 days or more like Bergoglio. He also said respiratory issues after major surgery is VERY common among elderly patients...and many don't survive surgeries...even minor ones. He's been a cardiologist for almost 21 years (He's 51) and has had 2-3 of his patients die within a day or 2 of operation because they were in their 80's and developed complications.
He said Bergoglio's fatigue MAY be from his respiratory problem, or a combination of cardiac issues/respiratory. If the lungs don't get enough oxygen, that effects the heart pumping, blood, brain, and everything, and one of the initial side effects can be fatigue. If not corrected if could lead to high BP, heart attack because the heart has to pump harder, and kidney failure and/or multiple organ failure (lungs, heart, kidneys).
He also said it is unlikely the respiratory issue Francis has is from the anesthesia at this date.....because he was fine meeting Sen. John Kerry (supposedly), but now not doing well today.
Lastly, he said that it could be from the surgery itself (strain on the body) which effects the heart as well as respiratory. He said some elderly people NEVER bounce back completely and some start to be dependant on 24 hr. oxygen. Sleeping laying flat makes it worse.
My uncle said he's not going to guess, or diagnose Bergoglio, but he has seen Francis' issue many times with very elderly patients...and they do not do well. The lack of proper oxygenation in the lungs is a massive issue for the heart, and often the elderly patient if they survive, just start going rapidly downhill.
After reading my Uncle's reports, I'd give Bergoglio 6 months. He may go to Portugal...but don't be surprised if he doesn't go to Mongolia.
Well he is almost 87.
Looking as if Francis will be gone here in the next year.
What then? Conclave with Francis II coming out?
Quote from: King Wenceslas on June 22, 2023, 09:38:08 PMFrom over at Gloria TV:
QuoteFrancis Says His Breathing "Not Good"
Francis' breathing is still "not good" and he is suffering from the effects of his recent anaesthesia, he told the Works of Aid to the Oriental Churches ...
Kenjiro M. Yoshimori
I've been texting my Uncle who is a Cardiologist in Los Angeles all day. He must be ready to punch me! 😂 Not really! He's a great Uncle, and an excellent Cardiologist. He also works as a PC (Personal Care Physician) for many patients. He has 2 offices, 1 in L.A., and the other in Alhambra, Ca. But I've been texting him about this issue of Pope Francis, and he said that this is NOT good.
He said, generally, people recover from anathesia in 1-2-3 days....not 15 days or more like Bergoglio. He also said respiratory issues after major surgery is VERY common among elderly patients...and many don't survive surgeries...even minor ones. He's been a cardiologist for almost 21 years (He's 51) and has had 2-3 of his patients die within a day or 2 of operation because they were in their 80's and developed complications.
He said Bergoglio's fatigue MAY be from his respiratory problem, or a combination of cardiac issues/respiratory. If the lungs don't get enough oxygen, that effects the heart pumping, blood, brain, and everything, and one of the initial side effects can be fatigue. If not corrected if could lead to high BP, heart attack because the heart has to pump harder, and kidney failure and/or multiple organ failure (lungs, heart, kidneys).
He also said it is unlikely the respiratory issue Francis has is from the anesthesia at this date.....because he was fine meeting Sen. John Kerry (supposedly), but now not doing well today.
Lastly, he said that it could be from the surgery itself (strain on the body) which effects the heart as well as respiratory. He said some elderly people NEVER bounce back completely and some start to be dependant on 24 hr. oxygen. Sleeping laying flat makes it worse.
My uncle said he's not going to guess, or diagnose Bergoglio, but he has seen Francis' issue many times with very elderly patients...and they do not do well. The lack of proper oxygenation in the lungs is a massive issue for the heart, and often the elderly patient if they survive, just start going rapidly downhill.
After reading my Uncle's reports, I'd give Bergoglio 6 months. He may go to Portugal...but don't be surprised if he doesn't go to Mongolia.
Well he is almost 87.
Looking as if Francis will be gone here in the next year.
What then? Conclave with Francis II coming out?
It could be a direct result of the fact that he also only has one lung.
But, yeah, if (when) he does die, without divine intervention, the results of the next conclave will probably be Francis II. He's stacked the College of Cardinals.
Quote from: Miriam_M on June 17, 2023, 12:25:50 PMI have attended their services and don't care for them, but again, I'm very clear in my understanding that laypeople don't "decide," based on "widespread" (or minority) "agreement" that Independent Sect A or Religion B has "valid Sacraments." The umbrella difference between Catholicism and every other religion is that we derive our authority from Jesus Christ, through St. Peter and his successors. The truth of the religion is not based on popularity, polls, or informal agreement and disagreement, including concepts born from the laity or dissenting priests. Regarding the latter, if such concepts are part of the tradition of the Church, then they're not new at all but integral to the Church, and therefore leaving the head of the church, however disappointing that head may be, is not a Catholic thing to do.
I agree with you because that is putting the law unto our own hands. By stating that the Seat of St. Peter is vacant despite the existence of the elected Pope we become the executor of justice against the Pope whom God is the only authority against him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usq27vxUjjo
Francis Nukes DDF
Fernandez ghost wrote Amoris Laetitia which is now being used to justify same sex blessings.
The false Church is being turned into a homo hellscape by Francis. He knows exactly what he is doing.
"The Church has changed its teaching previously on religious liberty and it can change its teaching on human sexuality."
+Vigano is figuring it out:
QuoteJuly 3, 2023
The sensitivity that Bergoglio shows towards idols and false religions is second only to the contempt he has for the true God and the one Church.
On the one hand, he receives notoriously blasphemous artist in the Sistine Chapel, and supports the LGBTQ+ sect which p[ublicly vilifies Our Lord and the Blessed Virgin: on the other he expresses "indignation" over a Koran burned by those who are exasperated by the Mohammedan invasion imposed by the New World Order he promoted.
A crucifix dipped in urine is worth a papal audience full of smiles and "thumbs up"; the Pachamama thrown into the Tiber arouses deploration. One wonders of which "church" he can be considered "pope": certainly not the Catholic one.
Bergoglio and his sect, enslaved to woke ideology, take the errors of Vatican II to their extreme consequences and create the premises - with immigration - and ecumenism - for the social unrest that the globalist elite wants to create, so as to legitimize new restrictions on fundamental freedoms.
The New Order prepares the way for the Antichrist, but Bergoglio in the role of his Prophet seems to want to get there even faster.
+ Carlo Maria Vigano, Archbishop
Quote from: King Wenceslas on July 04, 2023, 02:48:24 PM+Vigano is figuring it out:
Quote
The New Order prepares the way for the Antichrist, but Bergoglio in the role of his Prophet[/b] seems to want to get there even faster.
+ Carlo Maria Vigano, Archbishop
Bergoglio as the Prophet of the Antichrist ....?
Now that's a thought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC369IbJxKo
Another priest has taken the red pill.
What is "the red pill?"
What Ann Landers used to term: "Waking up and smelling the Coffee" i.e. Facing the truth.
Quote from: Michael Wilson on August 05, 2023, 12:43:18 PMWhat Ann Landers used to term: "Waking up and smelling the Coffee" i.e. Facing the truth.
Unfortunately, it's only half a red pill.
You just can't make this stuff up:
QuoteLifeSiteNews.com reported on August 15, 2023:
by Stephen Kokx
Pope Francis made headlines last week when he complained about priests not receiving a "humanistic formation."
"We need normal seminarians, with their problems, who play soccer, and who don't go to the neighborhoods to dogmatize," he told staffers for the Spain-based Catholic newspaper Nueva Vida.
"I don't like rigidity because it is a bad symptom of the inner life."
Francis didn't elaborate on what he meant by "rigidity." Nor did he provide a specific example of who in the Church is guilty of unduly "dogmatizing" others. That shouldn't be surprising though. Evasiveness is a hallmark of all liberals.
Francis proceeded to warn that seminaries should not be "ideological kitchens." Rather, they need to "train pastors" who are not "trapped in a theology manual, unable to get into trouble and make theology move forward."
After having listened to these petulant outbursts for 10 years now, it's not hard to figure out whom Francis has in mind, despite his refusal to name names. He's referring, of course, to you and me, to those who steadfastly remain loyal to the deposit of faith and who oppose his sinister efforts to undermine the Church's traditional teachings and liturgy.
St. Alphonsus would not support Francis' views on seminarians
St. Alphonsus Liguori founded the Redemptorist Order in the 1730s. He is believed to be one of the best-selling spiritual authors of all time due to the vast number of translations, editions, and reprintings his publications have gone through. His book The Dignity and Duties of The Priest explains in great detail how priests should be formed.
"Withdraw from worldly conversations and amusements ... think of nothing but prayer and frequenting the sacraments, and be nowhere but at home and in church," he writes. "One day of amusement, a word from a friend ... suffices to bring to nought all our resolutions of retiring from the world."
He goes on: "All is folly: feasts, theaters, parties of pleasure, amusements – these are the goods of this world, but goods which are filled with the bitterness of gall and with sharp thorns."
"Keep perfectly recollected, detaching ourselves from everything of this world," he adds. "We ought during this time to think of nothing but prayer, and frequenting the sacraments. ... Let him who will not do so, but contracts himself with pastimes, be persuaded that he will without doubt lose his vocation."
St. Alphonsus concedes, however, that seminarians need not always speak on serious topics. "Laugh, amuse yourself, speak even on entertaining subjects," he notes, "but preserve recollection, by interiorly making occasional acts of the love of God, or petitions for His graces."
All the saints condemn this anti-Christ anti-Pope. He is deeper in darkness than even John XII.
How many souls will be lost because of him?
A horrible punishment from God for the fallen Church. Even the blind will be lost in the final count.
Raise your hand if you know, or know of, priests who "go to neighborhoods" to "dogmatize."
How would that be accomplished? In the U.S., it's hard for me to imagine it. Is this an Argentinian model? A Roman practice?
Quote from: Miriam_M on August 18, 2023, 01:55:52 PMRaise your hand if you know, or know of, priests who "go to neighborhoods" to "dogmatize."
I wish I knew any who had the time! The faithful priests I know are too busy ministering to those who are already Catholic, and the unfaithful ones, well, you know the story there.
Quote from: Miriam_M on August 18, 2023, 01:55:52 PMRaise your hand if you know, or know of, priests who "go to neighborhoods" to "dogmatize."
How would that be accomplished? In the U.S., it's hard for me to imagine it. Is this an Argentinian model? A Roman practice?
IIRC at my old FSSP parish the priest and a bunch of volunteers would go door-knocking in the neighbourhood - not sure how long it lasted or what the results were, but it's something.
Quote from: LausTibiChriste on August 18, 2023, 04:03:16 PMQuote from: Miriam_M on August 18, 2023, 01:55:52 PMRaise your hand if you know, or know of, priests who "go to neighborhoods" to "dogmatize."
How would that be accomplished? In the U.S., it's hard for me to imagine it. Is this an Argentinian model? A Roman practice?
IIRC at my old FSSP parish the priest and a bunch of volunteers would go door-knocking in the neighbourhood - not sure how long it lasted or what the results were, but it's something.
And those journeys involved "dogmatizing" rather than merely charitable acquaintance? (If you know)
You just can't make this stuff up. Greatest mass murderer ever (40 million). The death of three-quarters of the population of Persia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGUIg4fNJv0
Re-establish Pax Mongolia. ROFLOL :cheeseheadbeer:
Frank is going out in a flame of glory. Wonder if any of this stuff is having ANY effect on Pam and Pat Pewdweller?
Fr. Altman has taken the red pill:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn5gHD-4WwM
Fr. Altman: "Can Jorge Bergoglio be a Pope? No! Because he is not Catholic".
Not very complicated is it?
At that rate FSSPX will be the last post which recognizes F as the pope.
Quote from: Miriam_M on August 04, 2023, 11:44:45 PMWhat is "the red pill?"
Is is a metaphor taken from the film "The Matrix" (loosely based on Plato's allegory of the cave (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave)).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill#As_political_metaphor
Quote from: clau clau on September 09, 2023, 08:50:38 AMQuote from: Miriam_M on August 04, 2023, 11:44:45 PMWhat is "the red pill?"
Is is a metaphor taken from the film "The Matrix" (loosely based on Plato's allegory of the cave (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave)).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill#As_political_metaphor
That reminds me...
(https://i.ibb.co/dK0mF78/4267b5c2-85cd-4235-b4a1-f75497657d13.png)
Quote from: Michael Wilson on September 09, 2023, 08:28:14 AMFr. Altman: "Can Jorge Bergoglio be a Pope? No! Because he is not Catholic".
Not very complicated is it?
Now every priest is infallible, as well? Or are just those priests who imply or allege SV'ism the infallible priests?
;)
Quote from: Miriam_M on September 09, 2023, 12:36:27 PMQuote from: Michael Wilson on September 09, 2023, 08:28:14 AMFr. Altman: "Can Jorge Bergoglio be a Pope? No! Because he is not Catholic".
Not very complicated is it?
Now every priest is infallible, as well? Or are just those priests who imply or allege SV'ism the infallible priests?
;)
Both of course! :laugh:
Wolves in sheep's clothing. We were told they would exist. That they would appear.
So my question is, would Our Lord, after telling us how to recognise them, cast us into Hell for rejecting them ?
I'm fairly confident He would not do so.
Quote from: Miriam_M on August 04, 2023, 11:44:45 PMWhat is "the red pill?"
It's something NPC's say to signify their disagreement with other NPC's.
Quote from: King Wenceslas on September 05, 2023, 11:37:58 AMYou just can't make this stuff up. Greatest mass murderer ever (40 million). The death of three-quarters of the population of Persia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGUIg4fNJv0
Re-establish Pax Mongolia. ROFLOL :cheeseheadbeer:
Frank is going out in a flame of glory. Wonder if any of this stuff is having ANY effect on Pam and Pat Pewdweller?
Based!
Haha. What a bunch of fat-faced effeminate dorks.
[yt]6D6t1erdM84[/yt]
https://youtube.com/shorts/6D6t1erdM84?si=tlkLYw_283Y8qJX3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSmya__Yaf4
Father Minutella translated talk about Francis. Gets rid of all the emotions and just the words.
Those who continue to call Francis a pope while knowing he is teaching heresy and destroying the Church will be condemned. They are cowards.
They do it for social reasons. They have a nephew in this institute, a daughter working in this diocese, a grandson who is in a seminary, etc. They have a office in the Vatican, they meet with the satanists in the Vatican, they talk with them and have access knowing full well that Francis is destroying the moral teachings and doctrines of the Church before the world. Judases.
They hold trad conferences; inviting all trads while proclaiming they are resisting "Pope" Francis's errors and entangling many into a web of deceit.
Quote"Attacked by Americans" - Pope Francis Insists on Evolution and Slams "Backward" US Conservatives for Letting "Ideologies Replace Faith"
"Backward" U.S Catholics
The Pope minced no words, asserting that U.S Catholic conservatives have veered off course, prioritizing ideology over genuine faith.
Francis went even further, arguing that being a Catholic means allowing your views to change over time, referring to subjects such as abortion and gay rights.
The Pope's comments brought to light the deep-seated divisions within the U.S. Catholic Church, calling them "backward."
Divorcees Receiving Sacraments
Francis' pivot towards social justice matters, such as the environment and poverty, left many conservatives angered.
The Pope even suggested allowing those who are divorced to allow sacraments, which further angered traditionalists.
During a meeting, a Portuguese Jesuit told of his challenging experience during a year in the United States because many of the Catholics didn't agree with Pope Francis' ideas.
A "Reactionary Attitude"
Francis took note of the Jesuit's struggles, acknowledging that he encountered many angry Catholics, including U.S. bishops, who were vocal critics of his views.
In a stark description, the Pope referred to the resistance within the U.S. church as "a very strong, organized, reactionary attitude."
The Pope's criticism did not stop there. He branded this conservative stance as "backward," and that people should stop putting their ideologies over their faith.
"Ideologies Replace Faith"
Francis issued a grave warning, "Doing this, you lose the true tradition and you turn to ideologies to have support. In other words, ideologies replace faith."
The Pope advocated for a balanced view, "I want to remind these people that backwardness is useless, and they must understand that there's a correct evolution in the understanding of questions of faith and morals."
Just when you thought you just might have made the wrong decision, Francis reconfirms his apostasy from the true faith. He must walk around with his foot in his mouth.
Evolution in faith and morals. ROFLOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4WbCNTHAjM
"We cannot materially repeat today what St. Paul said about women in 1 Corinthians 11:3-10 or Timothy 2:11-14 and other text of scripture that cannot be repeated today."
Thus, Francis is censoring St. Paul and many, many, many so-called "Catholic" priests and bishops believe in this censoring.
Thus, the so-called Catholic church has become a non-Bible believing church. Evangelicals are more Catholic than "Catholics" today.
This is going to end in disaster.
The "so called Catholic church" has embraced the Gnostic heresy.
The Father is the Demiurge is has imprisoned us all in soul restricting, traditional Catholicism.
The Son, who's Incarnation and torment on the Cross reminds the Gnostics too much of the physical and the flesh which they dream of escaping, is re-imagined in purely human terms as a friend, a teacher, a social activist who preaches peace, love and happiness forever.
The Holy Ghost, or Spirit, is also refashioned into a kind of 'spirit guide' who will show us the path to true liberation of the soul by opening the Church to a new era of inclusion, diversity and the welcoming of every belief in the name of togetherness. The 'Spirit of Vatican II' is the spirit of Gnosticism.
The Gnostic hate Trads because Trads stand in the way of manifesting the new dawn that awaits us all.
The true Catholic Church has fled to the hills. You won't find it in Rome.
Quote from: King Wenceslas on October 24, 2023, 10:32:19 AMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4WbCNTHAjM
"We cannot materially repeat today what St. Paul said about women in 1 Corinthians 11:3-10 or Timothy 2:11-14 and other text of scripture that cannot be repeated today."
Thus, Francis is censoring St. Paul and many, many, many so-called "Catholic" priests and bishops believe in this censoring.
Thus, the so-called Catholic church has become a non-Bible believing church. Evangelicals are more Catholic than "Catholics" today.
This is going to end in disaster.
Since when has Rome ever concerned Herself with what Scripture says? Functionally the Roman Magisterium is over Scripture since Rome decides what Scripture is and what it means.
This isn't anything new. The only difference now is that it's your ox that is being gored.
A.T.G.
QuoteSince when has Rome ever concerned Herself with what Scripture says? Functionally the Roman Magisterium is over Scripture since Rome decides what Scripture is and what it means.
This is straight from textbook Protestant misunderstanding of Catholicism.
The sources of the Catholic faith come from God's revelation; some of the Revelation was committed to writing, this is Sacred Scripture; some was passed on orally by the Jews and the Church that succeeded it. But in both the case of the ancient Jewish religion and the Church, the rule of the faith for the members has never been "sola scriptura"; Its always been the authority of the Prophets then the high priests in the O.T. And the Pope and bishops in the New Testament. Without an authorized God appointed and infallible teacher, men would never arrive at or maintain intact the totality of God's revelation.
Witness the Jews after the abolition of their priesthood; and the Protestants after forsaking the authority of the Church. In spite of maintaining some of the scriptures, they cannot agree on its meaning or interpretation; they are divided into as many sects as there are members of said groups.
QuoteThis isn't anything new. The only difference now is that it's your ox that is being gored.
That would mean that the Deposit of faith has been always corrupted, so that men have no way of ever arriving at the certainty of possessing it or understanding it. But on the contrary, Catholics hold, profess and confess that the one true Church is the Catholic Church; that this Church was established by Our Lord Jesus Christ, true God and true man; and that Our Lord established a living perpetual hierarchy on St. Peter, his successors and the bishops in union with Him. That he endowed them with His own authority to teach, interpret and faithfully transmit the deposit of the faith until the end of the world. The Pope and the bishops can no more teach error than the promises of Our Lord to be with His Church until the end of time can fail.
On the video of Mr. Ferrara and McCall; they accuse the Pope of "Pelagianism", because in his Encyclical A.L. He says there, that man in the concrete circumstances of his life may not be able to keep God's commandments.By this, he takes supernatural grace out of the equation i.e. Men with the assistance of God's grace can keep the commandments. This isn't the Pelagian error, it was particularly Martin Luther's contention, that some of God's laws were impossible for men to keep; so men could not help but sin. The Pelagians did take grace out of the equation, but in the contrary sense: they held that men without God's grace could keep the commandments and obtain eternal salvation!
Quotethe Pope referred to the resistance within the U.S. church as "a very strong, organized, reactionary attitude."
'Merica, Represent.
QuoteFunctionally the Roman Magisterium is over Scripture since Rome decides what Scripture is
Historically correct. The Catholic Church decided what Scripture was for the New Testament. For everyone, including snake handling Protestants. More than half of the proposed books for the Bible were excluded by the Catholic Church when she created the Bible.
On the Old Testament, the Catholic Church chose what the Jews defined, and what the Lord Himself quoted from -- the Septuagint.
The Prots chose the books as defined by the Babylonian Talmudists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK2kJ3HGNrM
Ooops!
He wasn't supposed to say that.
Bad, bad Ganswein.
Who cares about these gutless fools?
Telling us their opinion 10 years too late.
Tik Toc. Time is fleeting.
Quote(ANSA) - ROME, NOV 6 - Pope Francis said Monday that he is not in good health. "Good morning, I greet you all and welcome you. Thank you for this visit that I like so much, but it so happens that I am not in good health and for this reason I prefer not to read the speech but to give it to you for you to take it away," said the pope during the first audience broadcast in the Vatican press room on Monday morning. The pope reportedly spoke these words in a very tired voice and did not continue further.
One day you are here; the next day you are gone.
Here is a good reason to abandon the sinking Titanic: Touche Fernandez and his revision of the Ten Commandments. The only open door that should be given to adulterers is the confessional door.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/archbishop-vigano-bergoglios-intention-is-to-harm-souls-discredit-the-church-and-offend-god/?utm_source=daily-usa-2023-11-10&utm_medium=email
Who cares what Vigano has to say. He just hides and bitches...it's tiresome.
And it's not like he's telling us something we don't already know.
Vigano does have the advantage that he wakes up fence sitters.
I guess like the workers in the vineyard our job is to shut up and be happy with our pay.
God for some reason wanted to stretch this episode out
Quote from: lauermar on November 10, 2023, 03:49:48 AMHere is a good reason to abandon the sinking Titanic: Touche Fernandez and his revision of the Ten Commandments. The only open door that should be given to adulterers is the confessional door.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/archbishop-vigano-bergoglios-intention-is-to-harm-souls-discredit-the-church-and-offend-god/?utm_source=daily-usa-2023-11-10&utm_medium=email
QuoteThe words of the Savior, "You are my friends if you do what I command you," (Jn 15:14) and "Not the one who says, "Lord, Lord," but rather the one who does the will of my Father will enter the Kingdom of Heaven," (Mt 7:21) do not leave room for misunderstandings, and the fact that a "pope" dares to contradict them is of such unprecedented gravity that it cannot be tolerated in any way, both for the good of souls and because of the offense against God. Today we find ourselves facing the paradox of a self-proclaimed "master" of the Church – because Bergoglio acts as such – who drives those who are wearing the wedding garment away from the banquet and admits everyone else indiscriminately. But if Bergoglio's "church" does not want Catholics to belong to it, how can it call itself "Catholic"? If the person who exercises his authority as "pope" does so in opposition to the authority of Christ, how can he be considered Christ's vicar?
The red pill has reached the back of Vigano's throat.
When do those who adhere to this ape of the Church cease to be Catholic is even a better question.
Quote from: LausTibiChriste on November 10, 2023, 05:07:47 PMWho cares what Vigano has to say.
He's a household name among trads and Church Militant-type conservatives at this point. Even unbelievers have probably heard his name. It's something.
Thanks to Tim Gordon for resurfacing this issue again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyBccpmrKk0
He does a great job proving that Francis does not believe that Christ was God while Christ was here on earth.
He really helps in getting past the pope-splainers especially the clerical ones.
Start at 19 minutes so you get past the boring Voris discussion.
After going hard left by firing Strictland+ and approving trans baptisms then going hard right against freemasonry, Francis now goes hard left again to totally confuse people:
QuotePope Francis has welcomed a group of trans women to the Vatican for a meal in honor of World Day of the Poor. This followed his recent announcement allowing trans people to be baptized and act as godparents. The Pope also hosted a meal for up to 1,000 poor and homeless guests. Among the attendees were migrant trans women from Torvaianica, prompted by a local priest to contact the Pope for assistance. The Pope's chief almsgiver provided food, hygiene products, and vaccinations for the community. The gesture reflects the Pope's commitment to inclusivity and dignity for marginalized groups. "Before, the church was closed to us. They didn't see us as normal people, they saw us as the devil. Then Pope Francis arrived and the doors of the church opened for us", said Andrea Paola Torres Lopez, a Trans Woman, to Associated Press.
Just like Gorden said above. Left, right, left, confusion, destruction of the church. A great student of Peron.
In the end an underground Church.
It is winter and flu season. This is when the old are swept away. It happened to JPII.
QuoteVatican City — Pope Francis was in a "good and stable" condition Monday but was receiving antibiotics intravenously and would limit his activities for a few days to regain strength and fight off a lung inflammation, the Vatican said. The pope, who will turn 87 on Dec. 17, revealed the inflammation on Sunday but said he would still travel later this week to Dubai to address the climate change conference.
Francis skipped his weekly Sunday appearance at a window overlooking St. Peter's Square a day after the Vatican said he was suffering from a mild flu. Instead, Francis gave the traditional noon blessing in an appearance televised live from the chapel in the Vatican hotel where he lives.
Looking very old and frail. One lung also. Antibiotics destroy the good bacteria in the intestines and let the bad bacteria take over. He has already had a couple of surgeries on his intestines. Death starts in the bowles.
Time is ticking. His life's journey could be over in the next 4 or 5 months.
Then it is on to the next anti-pope.
We have to keep reminding ourselves that the Church is not a human institution but a Divine one. Yes, all the evidence points to the fact that the Church is finished; but it will endure to the end of the world. So we can and must always believe that somehow God can and will solve the current ongoing disaster in the Church, with the greatest of ease. The next Pope could be another St. Pius X; it is not impossible to God, only to us.
Hope dies last. As the Russians like to say.
Yesterday at an SSPX Mass, Father said that one of the few things he disctinctly remembers Abp. LeFebvre saying (he was ordained around 1990) was ,,we are supernaturally optimistic. Naturally, no." there is no natural solution for this mess, but we should have great faith in God's grace.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6e9Ua1b3rM
At 10 minutes.
Common Ecumenical mass. Come one come all. Protestant mass. Invalid Sacrament.
At 38 minutes.
Sede-impede (sede-impedists) is the proper term for those who say that Benedict did not resign from the Chair of Peter because he did not resign the papal munus. Therefore, BXVI still being the valid pope would impede anyone else from becoming Pope.
After the death of BXVI an interregnum between Popes exists.
What is a normy to do? (Psss. Get out before it is too late.)
QuotePope Francis Approves Blessing Same-Sex Couples
Pope Francis has formally approved allowing priests to bless same-sex couples, with a new document explaining a radical change in Vatican policy by insisting that people seeking God's love and mercy shouldn't be subject to "an exhaustive moral analysis" to receive it.
The document from the Vatican's doctrine office, released Monday, elaborates on a letter Francis sent to two conservative cardinals that was published in October. In that preliminary response, Francis suggested such blessings could be offered under some circumstances if they didn't confuse the ritual with the sacrament of marriage.
The new document repeats that rationale and elaborates on it, reaffirming that marriage is a lifelong sacrament between a man and a woman. And it stresses that blessings should not be conferred at the same time as a civil union, using set rituals or even with the clothing and gestures that belong in a wedding. (And it they don't. Well Francis will give in to that later on.)
Some window dressing saying it is not a marriage and blah, blah, blah.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2U7LYBZq30
Gordon calling on all Cardinals created by BXVI to hold a council just as Father Kramer did at the top of this thread.
Gordon has taken the red pill.
There's not much difference between the cardinals created by Ratzinger and those by Francis.
It's not like Ratzinger created a load of conservative Cardinals. He didn't.
Quote from: Greg on December 19, 2023, 08:48:20 AMThere's not much difference between the cardinals created by Ratzinger and those by Francis.
It's not like Ratzinger created a load of conservative Cardinals. He didn't.
This is true, but the bigger point is that by the time BXVI became Pope, many of the candidates for the Cardinalate had drifted away from Catholic orthodoxy and toward a soft and ambiguous form of the faith, more Protestant than Catholic in its indefiniteness and ambivalence. Perhaps there were in fact truer representatives of the faith that BXVI could have chosen, but I think we'd have to look closely at what was available at the time. Nevertheless, since he was one of the architects of V2, BXVI himself contributed to the ambiguity -- despite the fact that later he seemed surprised by what he had helped produce and was even in disbelief about it.
Collectively, BXVI's doctrinal contradictions concerning V2, pre- and post-; JP2's habit of denial and irresponsibility; and Francis' political and moral radicalism have together produced a colossal mess -- IOW, the disorder that Satan relishes, as well as the conditions for schism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFvCsOPTseQ
Vigano knows. He has taken the red pill.
Francis is THE antichrist pope. (Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist. The Church will be in eclipse.)
Even normies will be condemned when their judgement comes.
Everyone wondered all these years how the True Church will be separated from the False church.
It is happening right now. All who stay will be lost.
Quote from: King Wenceslas on December 23, 2023, 12:55:10 PMRome will lose the faith and become the seat of the antichrist.
I thought Jerusalem was supposed to be the seat of the Antichrist.
The secrets of Maximim and Melanie were never approved by Rome, on the contrary were placed on the Index and Catholics were forbidden to read them or divulge them. In Melanie's secret, the anti-Christ was supposed to be born in 1865; so he's been long dead. If by Rome, one means the Pope, that is impossible, given the promises of Our Lord to St. Peter. So the messages cannot apply to the phony Vatican II Popes.
Quote from: Michael Wilson on December 23, 2023, 04:39:35 PMThe secrets of Maximim and Melanie were never approved by Rome, on the contrary were placed on the Index and Catholics were forbidden to read them or divulge them. In Melanie's secret, the anti-Christ was supposed to be born in 1865; so he's been long dead. If by Rome, one means the Pope, that is impossible, given the promises of Our Lord to St. Peter. So the messages cannot apply to the phony Vatican II Popes.
As soon as the secrets were read they had to be suppressed. Can't have anyone running around declaring that an end times antipope would sit on the throne of Peter and destroy the Church in the near future. Same goes for the Third Secret. Got to keep the normies asleep in the pews.
Especially with the hyper-papalism spreading around the Church after Vatican I.
QuotePope Francis Condemns "Reactionary" American Catholics and Declares Ideology Is Replacing Faith
Pope Francis has criticized the "reactionary" U.S. Church and America's "climate of closure" in a private Lisbon meeting. The pontiff declares Catholics must evolve with modern culture.
"You have been to the United States and you say you have felt a climate of closure. Yes, this climate can be experienced in some situations," continued Pope Francis, who was visiting Lisbon as part of his World Youth Day trip. "And there, one can lose the true tradition and turn to ideologies for support. In other words, ideology replaces faith, membership in a sector of the church replaces membership in the church."
The Pope went on to highlight the importance of evolving and adapting religious practices to modern-day culture. He declared that there is "an appropriate evolution in the understanding of matters of faith and morals" and that it is "useless" to dwell on outdated ideas.
Pope Francis' statement follows years of criticism from American Catholics who disagree with the decision to make the church more accepting of LGBTQ+ individuals and grant women and lay Catholics more roles within the church. The Pope said earlier this year that it was "urgent" to give women more governance in the Catholic hierarchy.
Outdated ideas! The faith is outdated. Get a load of that.
Evolution is in.
He is the culmination of Vatican II.
+Fulton Sheen warned us of his coming. False church and a false Christ.
We are at the end of this Church age. Now comes the cleansing. How long? No one knows.
My guess: No more than 10 to 15 years.
O God, don't let it be any longer.
Quote from: King Wenceslas on January 02, 2024, 02:25:04 PMQuotePope Francis Condemns "Reactionary" American Catholics and Declares Ideology Is Replacing Faith
Pope Francis has criticized the "reactionary" U.S. Church and America's "climate of closure" in a private Lisbon meeting. The pontiff declares Catholics must evolve with modern culture.
"You have been to the United States and you say you have felt a climate of closure. Yes, this climate can be experienced in some situations," continued Pope Francis, who was visiting Lisbon as part of his World Youth Day trip. "And there, one can lose the true tradition and turn to ideologies for support. In other words, ideology replaces faith, membership in a sector of the church replaces membership in the church."
The Pope went on to highlight the importance of evolving and adapting religious practices to modern-day culture. He declared that there is "an appropriate evolution in the understanding of matters of faith and morals" and that it is "useless" to dwell on outdated ideas.
Pope Francis' statement follows years of criticism from American Catholics who disagree with the decision to make the church more accepting of LGBTQ+ individuals and grant women and lay Catholics more roles within the church. The Pope said earlier this year that it was "urgent" to give women more governance in the Catholic hierarchy.
Outdated ideas! The faith is outdated. Get a load of that.
Evolution is in.
He is the culmination of Vatican II.
+Fulton Sheen warned us of his coming. False church and a false Christ.
We are at the end of this Church age. Now comes the cleansing. How long? No one knows.
My guess: No more than 10 to 15 years.
Why don't you ever provide links for your quotes?
If you want to find where it came from type some of it into Google.
Or maybe you think I am making all of this up.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pope-francis-condemns-reactionary-american-catholics-and-declares-ideology-is-replacing-faith/ar-AA1mm7Fw?ocid=msedgntp&pc=ASTS&cvid=ff6303a00b0948909c2cbe86d42c27f3&ei=31
Quote from: King Wenceslas on January 02, 2024, 02:59:40 PMIf you want to find where it came from type some of it into Google.
Or maybe you think I am making all of this up.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pope-francis-condemns-reactionary-american-catholics-and-declares-ideology-is-replacing-faith/ar-AA1mm7Fw?ocid=msedgntp&pc=ASTS&cvid=ff6303a00b0948909c2cbe86d42c27f3&ei=31
I don't think you're making it up, but it seems easy enough to add the link of the story. Readers shouldn't have to "google" to find them.
Quote from: King Wenceslas on January 02, 2024, 02:25:04 PMPope Francis' statement follows years of criticism from American Catholics who disagree with the decision to make the church more accepting of LGBTQ+ individuals and grant women and lay Catholics more roles within the church. The Pope said earlier this year that it was "urgent" to give women more governance in the Catholic hierarchy.
But of course he isn't approving the blessing of Sodomic unions, oh no, not that!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ptP_kNB24A
Personally, I am of the belief that Francis and all his St. Gallen buddies got themselves excommunicated ipso facto because of their flagrant violation of Universi Dominici Gregis (UDG).
But at this point in time does it really matter since it is intuitively obvious that he is an anti-Pope. Only the most brain-dead people could consider him a pope.
Fr. Kramer's latest talk
Fr Paul Kramer - Is This The Last Gasp Of The Church? Will Fake Pope Bergoglio Bring The House Down?
https://grizzom.blogspot.com/search?q=Paul+Kramer&max-results=20&by-date=true
He is on Rense?
Wonder whether that does more harm than good
Quote from: Greg on January 11, 2024, 04:49:25 PMHe is on Rense?
Wonder whether that does more harm than good
Please say more about that.
Well I think you need to be a little bit cautious about appearing on the same show as someone talking about horoscpopes.
Even if we are wrong, Vatican II and the Vatican say we are still saved:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUbMS0lA_tA
We are all saved; we are all in the Church. Why not be a sedevacantist?
Quote from: King Wenceslas on January 22, 2024, 03:00:54 PMWe are all saved; we are all in the Church. Why not be a sedevacantist?
Normalcy bias.
The urge to believe that things can return to normal after a few tweaks is overwhelming.
Great video! The author is right; if the Conciliar Church is the true Church, then everyone is saved, including sedes; therefore even if sedes are wrong, they are right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERmEWHiKvj4
Goes to show you just how much things are screwed up in the Vatican.
And then to believe that one has to be obedient to the Vatican to be Catholic. Ludicrous.
Chart your own course based on the Church of 1958 and hope and pray that this ends soon.