The recent thread about Moral Theology made me wonder what a good reading list would be for learning theology and such.
I guess I could start the list with Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma in addition to the above.
wHat are some other recommendations?
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Didn't we have a good list posted a few months back?
I need to find the top threads of this forum and start a tally/link thread.
Any volunteers? ;)
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Catechism of the Council of Trent
Feser's Aquinas (starts from the very basics of metaphysics and gives the cliffnotes of Thomistic Theology)
his Last Superstition does that and compares it to modern philosophical errors
"Crossing the Threshold of hope" by Blessed John Paul II 8)
However if you are looking for something Catholic "A Summa of the Summa" a good starting point for Thomist Theology.
City of God by St Augustine
Confessions also by Augustine
The Sermons by St John Chrysostom (beware he was convinced the Jews killed Christ and had to convert so don't quote it at a New Church or you'll be called an anti-semite)
Quote from: Kaesekopf on September 01, 2013, 10:29:36 PM
Didn't we have a good list posted a few months back?
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I'm searching. Haven't found it yet...
Quote from: catquilt on September 02, 2013, 10:27:30 AM
Quote from: Kaesekopf on September 01, 2013, 10:29:36 PM
Didn't we have a good list posted a few months back?
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I'm searching. Haven't found it yet...
I wonder if KK is thinking of the "Study Program on the Crisis" sticky over in the "Book Store" sub-forum. But I don't think that is quite what tradne was looking for. Actually, just going through the books in that sub-forum gives a good list.
Quote from: RealJayneK on September 02, 2013, 11:11:47 AM
Quote from: catquilt on September 02, 2013, 10:27:30 AM
Quote from: Kaesekopf on September 01, 2013, 10:29:36 PM
Didn't we have a good list posted a few months back?
Sent from my HTC Sensation using Tapatalk 2
I'm searching. Haven't found it yet...
I wonder if KK is thinking of the "Study Program on the Crisis" sticky over in the "Book Store" sub-forum. But I don't think that is quite what tradne was looking for. Actually, just going through the books in that sub-forum gives a good list.
This is probably what I thought of.
Mea culpa
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Tradne, have you perused the list in the English Language Theology Manuals thread on Bellarmine? If not, here's the link: http://www.strobertbellarmine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7670&sid=7d57a7919d7b8b5ae66eff23d699dd94#p7670
F.J. Sheed's "Theology for Beginners" is within the grasp of many, imo.
Joe
This is a 5 page list given to me by my SSPX priest when I asked for a list that would round out my Catholic formation, which has been haphazard and dictated by what was available & personal preferences. I am not by any means done with it - it is extensive & many of the books are hard to find, but the ones I have read are worth it. Perhaps we could pick a book & read it together?
Anyhow, without further ado, her is the list:
Booklist for Sixth Formers, University Students and Post-Graduates.
Nota Bene: The following list is to give an idea to some lost, confused or intellectually hungry minds about what they should read in order to strengthen their faith.
The virtue of faith is the assent of the intellect to the Divine Truths revealed to us by Christ and the apostles, and passed onto us by the infallible Magisterium of the Church. This intellectual assent is prompted by God's action in the soul, whereby under the influence of God's grace we believe the truths of Revelation, not because we perceive and understand them by the light of our natural reason, or because we agree with them, but because they are revealed to us by God who cannot deceive nor be deceived. God's action on the soul, which prompts such an assent of the intellect, is called the gift of the virtue of faith.
However, although the fervour of our faith does not strictly depend on our understanding of the truths it reveals to us, the study of the faith will nevertheless be of the greatest aid in "keeping the deposit in all fidelity and truth." It is especially necessary today for all those who embark
on a life in the world to know the faith. We cannot think or hope to explain the truths of the faith to friend and foe in the way one would explain and solve a mathematical problem. The truths of the faith are mysterious to the human mind, and hence incomprehensible. Even in heaven, an eternity will not be enough to exhaust our understanding of them! Yet we can and should acquire knowledge of the faith sufficient enough to answer the objections against it and more importantly to show that it is not opposed to human reason, on the contrary.
In other words, we must be able to prove to our adversities that the faith is not for strange or suspicious people, but for the normal and sensible. Some scoff at certain affirmations of the Catholic Faith, i.e. creation, existence of a moral law, etc. Yet it is interesting to note that pre-Christian philosophy already held to such belief. Catholicism is eminently sensible.
The books listed below are an introduction to a deeper study of the faith. Some books are easy to grasp, others more difficult. I have indicated what age group should read what book, but it really depends on the individual. Nevertheless, one should not read above one's level, for fear of becoming despondent to the style and rigor of reasoning contained in the book, and losing taste for the study of the faith altogether.
There exist hundreds and hundreds of good books to read. This list is very limited. I beg forgiveness for the absence of the great English authors Chesterton and Belloc. In time!
Many books are now out of print. I have given ISBN's where I have been able to, i.e. I have the books with me. Most people now have access to the Internet. I use two old and rare book sites: www.bibliofind.com and www.abebooks.com . They rarely fail and prices are good.
A MAP OF LIFE, by F J Sheed,
(short book, upper 6th onwards)
Truly attractive, showing that with faith reason is not suspended but the opposite. One discovers the joy of applying reason to the foundation of one's faith and, perhaps for the first time, of thinking through the content of the faith and its consequences in everyday life. A great read for anyone, but especially the younger (late teens to twenty-something, third level students etc.). And all the more so if you're tending to distance yourself from your Faith because it seems all feelings and sentiment, built on feelings and sentiment, and expressed in non-sensical rites and formulae. While focused on reasons for believing in general, it does draw out in a lucid, if introductory way, how the Christian and Catholic Faith does not contradict reason but finds sure foundations in reason. (From a
review in the Amazon-UK website)
Available at Angelus Press, USA.
THEOLOGY FOR BEGINNERS, by F J Sheed,
ISBN 7220 7288 0
(short book, university onwards)
This book expounds the Church's main dogmas as simply and as compellingly as accuracy allows. Beginning with the reasons why the ordinary man, woman or teenager should study theology at all, it goes through the key doctrines: Spirit, Mystery, God's infinity and man's creation from nothing; the Trinity, man's fall, the Incarnation and Redemption; the Church and Our Lady, its first members; grace the sacraments, the next life and the end of the world. An excellent and necessary read.
Available at Angelus Press, USA.
THEOLOGY AND SANITY, by F J Sheed, (1945)
ISBN 0-7220-7820-X
(350 pages, late university, post-grad.)
Brilliant synthesis of the Catholic conception and understanding of life. This book is a development of Sheed's Theology for Beginners. The author portrays in a wonderfully simple and in places humorous style the essential and irrefutable reasonableness of the Catholic Faith. He also shows how the Catholic should view and understand his life and life in general, in the light of the truths he believes.
The book is a masterpiece of logic, clarity, simplicity and common sense, a great classic for the modern world.
THE BELIEF OF CATHOLICS, by Ronald Knox (1939)
(short book, lower 6th onwards)
A succinct, precise and unpretentious presentation of the belief of Catholics. In his gentle, quiet and unassuming style, Knox calmly exposes the essential truths of the faith in answer to the most common objections. It is as if the book were specifically written for self.
TO KNOW JESUS CHRIST, by F J Sheed
(400 pages, 6th form onwards)
A study on the Gospels. Ultimately, the knowledge of the faith is the knowledge of Jesus Christ. The greater our knowledge of Christ, therefore, the deeper our faith. As the Gospels can seem a little dry to read, this book is most useful.
Available at Angelus Press, USA.
THE MOTHER, by Cardinal Mindszenty
(short book, for 6th formers onwards)
A beautiful, poetical description of the treasures of Motherhood. A very difficult book to find!
THE SOCIAL RIGHTS OF CHRIST THE KING, by Denis Fahey. D.D.
(short book, university onwards)
Written under Pius XI, in the light of his encyclical Quas Primas on the kingship of Christ over civil society, this book is a simple and clear exposition of this essential doctrine, which since Vatican II and the advent of Religious Liberty, is denied. It is a necessary read, since there can be no true understanding of the concept of Civil Society without reference to the Kingship of Our Lord. Secular society, though so common, is an aberration.
NEWMAN AGAINST THE LIBERALS
ISBN: 0 85172 720 4
(600 pages, from 6th form onwards)
Michael Davis here presents a selection of Newman's parochial sermons before he became a Catholic. Newman was an acclaimed preacher, and it was in particular the preaching contained in this volume that gave the impetus to the Oxford Movement he foundered, without realising it! With his amazing insight and understanding of human nature, using his profound knowledge of the Scriptures and the Fathers of the Church, Newman presents the beliefs of Catholic doctrine with clarity, precision and exactitude, but in a manner applicable by all to daily life. Newman deplored and fought against the liberal faction in the Anglican Church of his day. In many ways, his Church of England is comparable to the present state of the Catholic Church of Rome, imbued as it is with liberalism and a love of secularism. Written in pure English style, with his usual mastery of language, Newman smashes one by one the misconceptions and errors of those favourable to the new ideas. Yet the tone is not
polemic. Newman writes to convert rather than refute. His love of the truth and piety for Our Lord shows through ever page. A profoundly learned, uplifting, fervent and refreshing exposition of the truths necessary for salvation put forth in a quiet but forceful manner. A wonderful read!
This book is a compilation of sermons. It thereby has the advantage of being able to be read on and off. One doesnot feel obliged to plough through it in one go.
THE IMITATION OF CHRIST, by Thomas a Kempis
No comment is needed here. This small book of piety and learning presents the essence of Christian aesthetical and mystical teaching. Every Catholic should be familiar with its counsels.
THEY HAVE UNCROWNED HIM, by Archbishop Lefebvre
(University onwards)
A compilation of conferences given to seminarians, on the errors of Vatican II and the Conciliar Church. His Lordship revised his work in order to edit it as a single book. In the light of the great modern encyclicals of those popes prior to Vatican II, his Lordship demonstrates in detail
the fundamental disagreement of the Conciliar theories, in particular that of Religious Liberty, with the constant magisterial teaching of the Catholic Church. His exposition is clear and irrefutable, and most apt to any youngster who wishes to explain to a friend his or her reasons for refusing the Conciliar Church.
Available at Angelus Press, along with many other titles of the Archbishop.
THE SEVEN SWEET BLESSINGS OF CHRIST, by Gerald Vann, OP
ISBN: 0-918477-55-7
(for all, 6th formers and adults)
Formerly titled Divine Pity, Gerald Vann presents and theological work on the relation between the seven sacraments, the seven gifts of the Holy Ghost and the eight beatitudes. In a studious manner, closely following St Thomas Aquinas, he describes the growth of the spiritual life as the fruit grace and the consequence of the reception of the sacraments, etc.
The value of this book lies not only in the detailed study the author makes of the spiritual life, but also in the simplicity with which he sets out the path to sanctity. One often thinks that sanctity is impossible. Youngsters are tempted to think avoidance of serious sin is sufficient to be a good Catholic. This book shows how sanctity is attainable, and that by the ordinary means Christ has left to the Church (sacraments and gifts) and the practise of the beatitudes. An uplifting and consoling read.
Available at Angelus Press.
SOCIETY AND SANITY, by F J Sheed
(University)
Companion to Theology and Sanity, this book sets out Christian principles on topics such as marriage, family and state. The book is one of the clearest explanations of how society should be, written in Sheed's easygoing and wonderfully clear style.
MERE CHRISTIANITY, by C S Lewis
(6th form onwards)
A short and fascinating read. Lewis, a fervent Christian, though not a Catholic, describes in street-corner language the rectitude and the eminent sensibleness and obviousness of the Christian conception of life. Starting from nothing, he proves the existence of God, the Natural Law, the Moral Law, etc. all the way to the advent of Christ and Christian teaching. Lewis then expounds elements of that teaching, showing its beauty and what should be our delight in seeking to make its practise our own. Of all the books on the list, this ranks amongst the first for its usefulness. Caveat the chapter on the virtues of faith, hope and charity...Lewis understands them as moral virtues whereas they are theological. Also he falls into error concerning the divorce and remarriage of non-Christians, something he thinks allowable with State approval, whereas Natural Law forbids divorce and remarriage to all men, Christian and unchristian.
Available new
THE PROBLEM OF PAIN, by C S Lewis
(6th form onwards)
Another very interesting short book by Lewis. In it he explains the why of pain, resorting to the answers one mayfind in Christian teaching. The chapter on Divine Goodness is among the most beautiful ever written on God.
Available new
THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS, by C S Lewis
(upper 6th form onwards)
A well-known Lewis classic. The author imagines a correspondence between a senior demon, Screwtape, and a minor demon, Wormwood. The correspondence shows to the reader all the most ordinary ways in which a soul may be enticed to follow the way of self, as opposed to the way of God. Very enlightening, educative as well as amusing.
Available new
THE RELIGION OF THE PLAIN MAN, by R H Benson (1906)
(120 pages, 6th form onwards)
A quiet, learned yet simply put defence of the Catholic Faith written by the converted son, become priest, of aformer Archbishop of Canterbury! Ideal apologetics for Protestant friends.
LIBERALISM AND CATHOLICISM, by Fr A. Roussel
(130 pages, 2nd year University onwards)
This book traces the development of Catholic liberalism and its progressive infiltration into the Catholic Church. It was written in 1926, and shows that the causes of the present liberal trends of thought can be found as far back as
the French Revolution. The book is highly useful for its studies of the relationship between Church and State, and on the clear proof it offers that liberalism (in any form: political, economic...) invariably leads to despotism.
Available at Angelus Press, USA.
CRANMER'S GODLY ORDER, by Michael Davis
(Upper 6th onwards)
A scholarly work going back over the progressive steps taken by Cranmer to remove the Catholic doctrine from the Mass and make it into the 1552 communion service. Indispensable reading for those interested in the Liturgical and Ecumenical movement. The book shows that changes in the Church's liturgy cannot be made without compromising the basis of the Catholic Faith.
Available at Angelus Press, USA.
POPE JOHN'S COUNCIL, by Michael Davis
(University onwards)
A study of Vatican II in readable form.
Available at Angelus Press, USA.
POPE PAUL'S NEW MASS, by Michael Davis
(University onwards)
A definitive study on the New Mass, showing its fundamental contradiction to the Catholic doctrine on the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
Available at Angelus Press, USA.
INTRODUCTION TO THE DEVOUT LIFE, by St Francis de Sales
The title of this book is self-explanatory. It is a beautiful read, spiritually uplifting and simple. It is an excellent introduction to a deeper spiritual life, so necessary to one entering the adult word.
Available at Angelus Press, USA
NOTE:
These three books by Davis form, even today, a complete introduction to the understanding
of the present crisis of faith in the Catholic Church. Youngsters cannot but benefit in realising
that attachment to old forms of belief and worship is not founded on taste or nostalgia for the past,
but on fidelity to the Faith itself.
Papal Encyclicals for the Modern Age
Nota Bene: Papal encyclicals, to those who are unfamiliar with their style, can appear dry and laborious to read. However, perseverance will win the day. The beauty of these documents lies in the fact that they offer to the reader a profound yet succinct analysis of the points of doctrines they discuss. The clarity and exactitude of expression and the rigorous logic behind their reasoning makes them perfect study pieces through which one can learn the Church's teaching on the most essential subjects of modern times.
HUMANI GENERIS, on evolution, by Pius XII
(University onwards)
LIBERTAS, on the definition of liberty, by Leo XIII
(University onwards)
A masterpiece!
MORTALIUM ANIMOS, on ecumenism, by Pius XI
(6th form onwards)
Damning evidence that the current trend of ecumenism is radically opposed to Church practise, not merely forhistorical reasons, but on principle.
QUANTA CURA AND SYLLABUS, on the errors of the modern world, by Pius IX
(University onwards)
PASCENDI DOMINI GREGIS, on Modernism, by Pius X
(University onwards)
A brilliant analysis of what the modernist mind is, how it works and why it is wrong.
MEDIATOR DEI, on the liturgy, by Pius XII
(University onwards)
Pius XII refutes the theories behind the liturgical changes of the past 35 years, some 20 years before they happened!
CASTI CONNUBII, on marriage, by Pius XI
(Upper 6th onwards)
IMMORTALE DEI, on the constitution of Christian States, by Leo XIII
(Upper 6th onwards)
QUAS PRIMAS, on the social kingship of Christ, by Pius XI
(University onwards)
All
Annnnnnnd stickied.
Thank you JM.
Quote from: tmw89 on September 02, 2013, 11:50:22 AM
Tradne, have you perused the list in the English Language Theology Manuals thread on Bellarmine? If not, here's the link: http://www.strobertbellarmine.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7670&sid=7d57a7919d7b8b5ae66eff23d699dd94#p7670
Thanks. This is along the lines of what I personally was after, but many other suggestions here in the thread are great for a wider interest.
Here's a bunch of free books on PDF files. http://www.sedevacantist.com/books/ (http://www.sedevacantist.com/books/)
Also, are you aware of Archive.org? This is an invaluable resource. You have an virtually endless resource of Catholic books available for FREE on this site to download on PDF files. You can transfer them on your mobile devise and read to your hearts content.
What does 6th form mean?
Quote from: Bonaventure on September 04, 2013, 02:53:18 PM
What does 6th form mean?
It's a reference to the UKs educational system, I believe. 6th form, if I recall correctly is the equivalent of a high school senior in the States.
This Is The Faith by Canon Ripley is a good solid overview. It also has a list of heresies in the back with short description of their, uh, heresy and the timeframe.
Quote from: Mysterium Fidei on September 04, 2013, 02:49:37 PM
Here's a bunch of free books on PDF files. http://www.sedevacantist.com/books/ (http://www.sedevacantist.com/books/)
Also, are you aware of Archive.org? This is an invaluable resource. You have an virtually endless resource of Catholic books available for FREE on this site to download on PDF files. You can transfer them on your mobile devise and read to your hearts content.
The number of out-of-print orthodox Catholic books at archive.org is ginormous! :D
Unfortunately, it's not always easy to find stuff on there. I've bookmarked a bunch of resources I thought were interesting at http://archive.org/bookmarks/catquilt (http://archive.org/bookmarks/catquilt)
Unfortunately, I struck out on Ecclesiology books. They seem to have a lot of the Dogmatic Theology books, though.
Quote from: tradne4163 on September 05, 2013, 08:52:40 AM
Unfortunately, I struck out on Ecclesiology books. They seem to have a lot of the Dogmatic Theology books, though.
The ecclesiology textbooks are only, if that, more detailed treatments of the treatises/tracts on ecclesiology in the manuals of dogmatic theology. The dogmatic manuals of Msgr. Van Noort (vol. II) and Very Rev. Tanquerey (vol. I) should prove quite useful to you.
For a theology appertaining to Sacred Images the Apologia of St. John Damscenes' Against those who decry holy images is a must.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/johndamascus-images.asp (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/johndamascus-images.asp)
Quote from: SouthpawLink on September 07, 2013, 12:47:47 PM
Quote from: tradne4163 on September 05, 2013, 08:52:40 AM
Unfortunately, I struck out on Ecclesiology books. They seem to have a lot of the Dogmatic Theology books, though.
The ecclesiology textbooks are only, if that, more detailed treatments of the treatises/tracts on ecclesiology in the manuals of dogmatic theology. The dogmatic manuals of Msgr. Van Noort (vol. II) and Very Rev. Tanquerey (vol. I) should prove quite useful to you.
I agree with the above and also on this list: http://www.sedevacantist.com/books/ (http://www.sedevacantist.com/books/) scroll down to almost the bottom, there is a book entitled: The Mystery of the Church by Humbert Clerissac. I have not read it yet, but it seems good and Mr. Lane thinks highly of it.
You may also be interested in this: http://www.romancatholicism.org/fenton-proof1.htm (http://www.romancatholicism.org/fenton-proof1.htm)
Denzinger; Predestination (Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange); Providence (Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange); Grace (Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange); [anything by Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange]; Radio Replies Vol. I, II, & III; Introduction to the Devout Life (St. Francis de Sales); Right and Reason (Fr. Austin Fagothey); The Faith of Our Father's (James Cardinal Gibbons); Conspiracy Against God and Man (Fr. Clarence Kelly); Baltimore Catechism.
These are just a few of the works (some for simpler folk, some for complicated folk) that I didn't see mentioned in this thread. If I repeatedly any that were already mentioned, then I apologize in advance.
Quote from: Mysterium Fidei on September 07, 2013, 03:20:28 PM
Quote from: SouthpawLink on September 07, 2013, 12:47:47 PM
Quote from: tradne4163 on September 05, 2013, 08:52:40 AM
Unfortunately, I struck out on Ecclesiology books. They seem to have a lot of the Dogmatic Theology books, though.
The ecclesiology textbooks are only, if that, more detailed treatments of the treatises/tracts on ecclesiology in the manuals of dogmatic theology. The dogmatic manuals of Msgr. Van Noort (vol. II) and Very Rev. Tanquerey (vol. I) should prove quite useful to you.
I agree with the above and also on this list: http://www.sedevacantist.com/books/ (http://www.sedevacantist.com/books/) scroll down to almost the bottom, there is a book entitled: The Mystery of the Church by Humbert Clerissac. I have not read it yet, but it seems good and Mr. Lane thinks highly of it.
You may also be interested in this: http://www.romancatholicism.org/fenton-proof1.htm (http://www.romancatholicism.org/fenton-proof1.htm)
Though be warned about the rest of the second website. It is extremely Jansenistic.
Quote from: GloriaPatri on September 07, 2013, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: Mysterium Fidei on September 07, 2013, 03:20:28 PM
Quote from: SouthpawLink on September 07, 2013, 12:47:47 PM
Quote from: tradne4163 on September 05, 2013, 08:52:40 AM
Unfortunately, I struck out on Ecclesiology books. They seem to have a lot of the Dogmatic Theology books, though.
The ecclesiology textbooks are only, if that, more detailed treatments of the treatises/tracts on ecclesiology in the manuals of dogmatic theology. The dogmatic manuals of Msgr. Van Noort (vol. II) and Very Rev. Tanquerey (vol. I) should prove quite useful to you.
I agree with the above and also on this list: http://www.sedevacantist.com/books/ (http://www.sedevacantist.com/books/) scroll down to almost the bottom, there is a book entitled: The Mystery of the Church by Humbert Clerissac. I have not read it yet, but it seems good and Mr. Lane thinks highly of it.
You may also be interested in this: http://www.romancatholicism.org/fenton-proof1.htm (http://www.romancatholicism.org/fenton-proof1.htm)
Though be warned about the rest of the second website. It is extremely Jansenistic.
Yeah, I don't endorse the website and really know nothing about it. I was just posting a link to the piece by Fr. Fenton.
Another good source that I have found is the out of print library at Ite as Thomam: http://iteadthomam.blogspot.com/p/out-of-print-library-itopl.html (http://iteadthomam.blogspot.com/p/out-of-print-library-itopl.html)
These are delivered via e-mail in PDF format. There is a $3.99 charge for each download, but many of these volumes are hard to find or very expensive to get in a hardcopy.
Once one has a good foundation in the western philosophical tradition, a nice overview can be given from Ott. Then one can dive into more specific works, depending on area of interest.
Quote from: Mysterium Fidei on September 07, 2013, 07:30:21 PM
Quote from: GloriaPatri on September 07, 2013, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: Mysterium Fidei on September 07, 2013, 03:20:28 PM
Quote from: SouthpawLink on September 07, 2013, 12:47:47 PM
Quote from: tradne4163 on September 05, 2013, 08:52:40 AM
Unfortunately, I struck out on Ecclesiology books. They seem to have a lot of the Dogmatic Theology books, though.
The ecclesiology textbooks are only, if that, more detailed treatments of the treatises/tracts on ecclesiology in the manuals of dogmatic theology. The dogmatic manuals of Msgr. Van Noort (vol. II) and Very Rev. Tanquerey (vol. I) should prove quite useful to you.
I agree with the above and also on this list: http://www.sedevacantist.com/books/ (http://www.sedevacantist.com/books/) scroll down to almost the bottom, there is a book entitled: The Mystery of the Church by Humbert Clerissac. I have not read it yet, but it seems good and Mr. Lane thinks highly of it.
You may also be interested in this: http://www.romancatholicism.org/fenton-proof1.htm (http://www.romancatholicism.org/fenton-proof1.htm)
Though be warned about the rest of the second website. It is extremely Jansenistic.
Yeah, I don't endorse the website and really know nothing about it. I was just posting a link to the piece by Fr. Fenton.
Another good source that I have found is the out of print library at Ite as Thomam: http://iteadthomam.blogspot.com/p/out-of-print-library-itopl.html (http://iteadthomam.blogspot.com/p/out-of-print-library-itopl.html)
These are delivered via e-mail in PDF format. There is a $3.99 charge for each download, but many of these volumes are hard to find or very expensive to get in a hardcopy.
Mysterium Fidei, do you know if the books on Ite ad Thomam's out-of-print website are translated, or are they in their original languages?
Quote from: GloriaPatri on September 13, 2013, 04:55:26 PM
Quote from: Mysterium Fidei on September 07, 2013, 07:30:21 PM
Quote from: GloriaPatri on September 07, 2013, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: Mysterium Fidei on September 07, 2013, 03:20:28 PM
Quote from: SouthpawLink on September 07, 2013, 12:47:47 PM
Quote from: tradne4163 on September 05, 2013, 08:52:40 AM
Unfortunately, I struck out on Ecclesiology books. They seem to have a lot of the Dogmatic Theology books, though.
The ecclesiology textbooks are only, if that, more detailed treatments of the treatises/tracts on ecclesiology in the manuals of dogmatic theology. The dogmatic manuals of Msgr. Van Noort (vol. II) and Very Rev. Tanquerey (vol. I) should prove quite useful to you.
I agree with the above and also on this list: http://www.sedevacantist.com/books/ (http://www.sedevacantist.com/books/) scroll down to almost the bottom, there is a book entitled: The Mystery of the Church by Humbert Clerissac. I have not read it yet, but it seems good and Mr. Lane thinks highly of it.
You may also be interested in this: http://www.romancatholicism.org/fenton-proof1.htm (http://www.romancatholicism.org/fenton-proof1.htm)
Though be warned about the rest of the second website. It is extremely Jansenistic.
Yeah, I don't endorse the website and really know nothing about it. I was just posting a link to the piece by Fr. Fenton.
Another good source that I have found is the out of print library at Ite as Thomam: http://iteadthomam.blogspot.com/p/out-of-print-library-itopl.html (http://iteadthomam.blogspot.com/p/out-of-print-library-itopl.html)
These are delivered via e-mail in PDF format. There is a $3.99 charge for each download, but many of these volumes are hard to find or very expensive to get in a hardcopy.
Mysterium Fidei, do you know if the books on Ite ad Thomam's out-of-print website are translated, or are they in their original languages?
They are in their original languages. I have only purchased English language volumes as I am not yet proficient in Latin. :-[ Still a work in progress.
Quote from: Spooky on September 04, 2013, 07:39:06 PM
This Is The Faith by Canon Ripley is a good solid overview. It also has a list of heresies in the back with short description of their, uh, heresy and the timeframe.
+1
A Systematic Study of the Catholic Religion – Fr. Charles Coppins, SJ
How Christ said the first Mass – Fr. James Meagher, DD
Both of those would be great options.
Theology for Beginners
Theology and Sanity
Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma
How Christ Said the First Mass
A Tour Of The Summa
Here is a casual class you can take run by trad sisters.
http://catholicism.org/sai-free-class.html (http://catholicism.org/sai-free-class.html)
Thanks very much for this list, it's very helpful!
Quote from: tradne4163 on September 01, 2013, 09:50:02 PM
The recent thread about Moral Theology made me wonder what a good reading list would be for learning theology and such.
I guess I could start the list with Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma in addition to the above.
wHat are some other recommendations?
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These are all old, but very good:
1. Fr. Arthur Devine (1849-1919), C.SS.R:
A Manual of Ascetical Theology: Or, The Supernatural Life of the Soul on Earth and in Heaven
The Commandments Explained According To The Teaching And Doctrine Of The Catholic Church
The Creed explained; Or, an exposition of Catholic doctrine according to the creeds of faith and the constitutions and definitions of the Church
More here: https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Devine%2C+Arthur%2C+1849-1919%22
"The Creed Explained" is very thorough, which is why it is almost 500 pages long.
No matter what the topic, he has a gift for writing very clearly about matters than can be very abstruse. He makes things a lot easier for the reader by subdividing his chapters, so that one never gets lost. His books are not short, but that is because they are thorough.
2. A book I have found very helpful in working out what out make of the reports of apparitions and similar favours one hears so much of these days, is "The Graces of Interior Prayer" by Pere Auguste Poulain, S.J. The edition I have has a letter of approbation by St Pius X. I think that speaks for itself.
3. In case no-one has suggested it, Dom Chautard's "The Soul of the Apostolate" has been very highly praised (I've not read it).
This is probably saying the obvious, but for learning how to think about particular topics in a thoroughly Catholic way, ISTM the Encyclicals of the Popes are a must.
One of the best books I found especially early on was simply a good Catholic Dictionary. Fr. Hardon's Pocket Dictionary is great for quick reading, just snooping around and seeing what you can learn. You might look up one word and then be curious about another one on the same page or so. There are a couple of quibble's I have with Fr. Hardon nowadays but all in all it's a good book to use.
Quote from: Parresia on November 20, 2013, 03:52:11 PM
A Tour Of The Summa
Is this like
A Summa of the Summa? Which one's easier for a beginner? Which one's like the "middle ground" between beginner and full-on
Summa? :huh: I'm at once fascinated by, and intimidated by the full-on Summa, so I've never been confident enough to read it (or, really, convinced that I have any particular pressing need to read it, so I guess I'm okay. :lol:)
Farrells companion to the summa is supposed to be good for laity. It's on opcentrals site
http://opcentral.org/a-companion-to-the-summa/
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Quote from: Kaesekopf on February 27, 2017, 04:28:48 PM
Farrells companion to the summa is supposed to be good for laity. It's on opcentrals site
http://opcentral.org/a-companion-to-the-summa/
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Is there a way to download this that I'm missing? :huh: I really hope so.
Quote from: Bernadette on February 27, 2017, 05:20:17 PM
Quote from: Kaesekopf on February 27, 2017, 04:28:48 PM
Farrells companion to the summa is supposed to be good for laity. It's on opcentrals site
http://opcentral.org/a-companion-to-the-summa/
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Is there a way to download this that I'm missing? :huh: I really hope so.
Uh. Doubt it.
Probably on archive.org though.
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Quote from: Gerard on February 27, 2017, 03:06:01 PM
One of the best books I found especially early on was simply a good Catholic Dictionary. Fr. Hardon's Pocket Dictionary is great for quick reading, just snooping around and seeing what you can learn. You might look up one word and then be curious about another one on the same page or so. There are a couple of quibble's I have with Fr. Hardon nowadays but all in all it's a good book to use.
I have one with a very fragile spine and some pages loose. Apart from essentially treating the NOM as the settled form of Mass (a mistake but understandable in the early eighties), there are so many neat and correct little definitions of terms a Catholic comes across. The SJ might make a person worry, but Fr Hardon SJ was of that extinct species of orthodox Catholic Jesuits.
Interesting resources in this thread. Thanks all.
I have Hardon's catechism and it is in line with Vatican II.
Quote from: martin88nyc on March 01, 2017, 07:50:37 PM
I have Hardon's catechism and it is in line with Vatican II.
I have that catechism and my eyes glazed over rather quickly. I've never been able to get into it. That's why I suggested the dictionary for a beginner. A lot of the suggestions are pretty heavy for people that have at most, the basic post-Vatican II instruction. I think the most important things to learn first is the commonly used vocabulary and the concepts behind them.
Many people recite prayers they've learned by heart but they actually don't know what half of the words mean. They have a vague concept of the meaning based on hearing them in context but not a solid understanding and sometimes they simply have a wrong understanding because they've heard it in context used incorrectly.
Examples: What does "Amen" mean as opposed to "Alleluia"? What is "Glory"? etc. You get the idea. Better to really know a smaller amount of prayers full meanings than prattle on with heavier prayers when you don't know what you are even saying. If you don't know what "Glory" is, why would a person be jumping ahead to "consubstantial" or other more complicated and less frequent terms?
Bishop Sheen's audio catechism is another great resource. Simple clear explanations with very understandable analogies and examples. His small books like "The Seven Cardinal Sins" and the "The Prodigal World" are also good collections of sermons and lectures from the early days of his ministry.
Quote from: jim111 on September 15, 2014, 07:11:39 AM
Here is a casual class you can take run by trad sisters.
http://catholicism.org/sai-free-class.html (http://catholicism.org/sai-free-class.html)
Is there an Updated link for this ?
Here are links to all 12 volumes of the Pohle-Preuss manuals of dogmatic theology. (http://iteadthomam.blogspot.com/2017/09/pohle-preuss-dogmatic-theology-12-vols.html) They were standard reading material in American seminaries pre-V2.
Is that what the old link linked to, what the Sisters taught from specifically? Or something else ?
Quote from: Gerard on February 27, 2017, 03:06:01 PM
One of the best books I found especially early on was simply a good Catholic Dictionary. Fr. Hardon's Pocket Dictionary is great for quick reading, just snooping around and seeing what you can learn. You might look up one word and then be curious about another one on the same page or so. There are a couple of quibble's I have with Fr. Hardon nowadays but all in all it's a good book to use.
It was first published in 1985 and Hardon is a Jesuit. I wouldn't use that as toilet paper.
Quote from: Mysterium Fidei on September 07, 2013, 03:20:28 PM
Quote from: SouthpawLink on September 07, 2013, 12:47:47 PM
I agree with the above and also on this list: http://www.sedevacantist.com/books/ (http://www.sedevacantist.com/books/) scroll down to almost the bottom, there is a book entitled: The Mystery of the Church by Humbert Clerissac. I have not read it yet, but it seems good and Mr. Lane thinks highly of it.
You may also be interested in this: http://www.romancatholicism.org/fenton-proof1.htm (http://www.romancatholicism.org/fenton-proof1.htm)
Though be warned about the rest of the second website. It is extremely Jansenistic.
Jansenistic? The website is of a "Pope Michael" type group but the Fenton pages are very good. Here's an archive of the page linked: https://web.archive.org/web/20070222064537/https://www.romancatholicism.org/fenton-proof1.htm
Quote from: jim111 on September 15, 2014, 07:11:39 AM
Here is a casual class you can take run by trad sisters.
http://catholicism.org/sai-free-class.html (http://catholicism.org/sai-free-class.html)
Quote from: AnneTce on November 12, 2020, 10:35:41 PM
Is that what the old link linked to, what the Sisters taught from specifically? Or something else ?
This is the new link: https://www.saintaugustineinstitute.org/free-class Has anyone taken this four year program? It's is pricey.
Quote from: GiftOfGod on November 13, 2020, 12:34:03 AM
Quote from: Gerard on February 27, 2017, 03:06:01 PM
One of the best books I found especially early on was simply a good Catholic Dictionary. Fr. Hardon's Pocket Dictionary is great for quick reading, just snooping around and seeing what you can learn. You might look up one word and then be curious about another one on the same page or so. There are a couple of quibble's I have with Fr. Hardon nowadays but all in all it's a good book to use.
It was first published in 1985 and Hardon is a Jesuit. I wouldn't use that as toilet paper.
Well, if those are your "reasons," you're an idiot and I would doubt your ability to properly use toilet paper. Seriously, what smug, vacuous and inane criteria.
Quote from: Gerard on November 13, 2020, 11:20:34 AM
Quote from: GiftOfGod on November 13, 2020, 12:34:03 AM
It was first published in 1985 and Hardon is a Jesuit. I wouldn't use that as toilet paper.
Well, if those are your "reasons," you're an idiot and I would doubt your ability to properly use toilet paper. Seriously, what smug, vacuous and inane criteria.
QuoteThese early companions who were "staunch Lutherans" helped to form his religious thinking: "Years before the Ecumenical Movement I had come to respect and cherish Protestants."
QuoteDetermined to foster this endeavor, Hardon began to study comparative religion. In oriental religions, he found "not only areas that were compatible with Christianity but also sections of thought that were clearly influenced in a direct manner by contact with the Christian message."
QuoteContinuing his outreach, his 1956 book Protestant Churches in America was met with critical acclaim even in Protestant circles. While still teaching full-time at West Baden, Hardon became a visiting professor of Catholic theology at several Protestant seminaries and colleges, including Bethany School of Theology, Lutheran School of Theology, and Seabury-Western Divinity School.
QuoteUpon his acceptance of a position at Seabury-Western Divinity school, the Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury sent a personal representative to mark "the first time in history an Anglican/Episcopalian seminary had appointed a teacher who was a member of the once hated and feared Society of Jesus." Hardon also served as an advisor to the Second Vatican Council in discussions on liturgy.
QuoteBetween 1962 and 1967, Fr. Hardon taught Roman Catholicism and Comparative Religion at Western Michigan University. He released his book Religions of the World in 1963. By 1967 he returned to teaching Jesuit scholastics at two Jesuit theological schools in Illinois while working as a visiting professor at St. Paul University in Ottawa, where he taught furloughed missionaries classes in missiology. At this time he also began work for the Congregations for Religious and the Clergy in Rome to implement the renewal laid out in the documents of Vatican II.
QuoteHardon had a close working relationship with Pope Paul VI, engaging in several initiatives at the Pope's request, including his authoring of The Catholic Catechism.
QuoteFather Hardon's The Catholic Catechism was a ground-breaking post-Vatican II work which brought modern Catholic teaching and faith into one book. At the time of his death, it had sold over 150,000 copies in hardback, and as a 623-page paperback had reached its 26th printing with over one million copies sold. It served as the official codified teaching of the Catholic Church until the 1992 Catechism of the Catholic Church promulgated by Pope John Paul II. Hardon also served as a consultant for the drafting of that document.
QuoteHardon kept to a demanding work schedule, especially while assisting the 1992 Catechism. Once daily demands for his advice as a local spiritual director lessened around five or six pm, he would write and organize material and continue to work into the night (morning in Rome). During these hours he often received phone calls concerning details of the Catechism from Cardinal Ratzinger, who valued his advice.
QuoteIn early 2012, Peter Jamison in the San Francisco Weekly reported on documents concerning Hardon's fellow Jesuit Donald McGuire, who was arrested in 2005 and found guilty of sexually molesting boys. The article reported that years before the arrest, during a visit to Saint John Vianney, McGuire admitted to Hardon to taking showers with his alleged victim, asking the boy to massage his body, and allowing pornography in a shared room while traveling. McGuire denied additional allegations that he had touched the boy's genitals and watched him masturbate. Hardon was apparently satisfied, and wrote to Schaeffer, McGuire's superior:
Regarding showering, Fr. Don said that it was true, but the picture is not one of a lingering sensual experience. It was rather the picture of two firemen, responding to an emergency, one of whom was seriously handicapped and in need of support and care from the other. . . . Regarding the massages, Fr. Don said they were done with attention to modesty and were necessary to relieve spasm at the 4th-5th lumbar disc [above the buttocks] and the right leg, involving the sciatic nerve. . . . Regarding pornography Fr. Don said that there were Playboy and Penthouse magazines, which he neither got nor threw away. . . . I do not believe there was any conscious and deliberate sexual perversity. . . . I do believe Fr. McGuire was acting on principles which, though objectively defensible, were highly imprudent. . . . He should be prudently allowed to engage in priestly ministry.
According to the report, McGuire went on to abuse more children after returning to ministry.
The fact that Hardon was a Jesuit buddy-buddy with post-Vatican II popes should be enough information on its face for any good traditional Catholic to dismiss his work but his work is even more disturbing. If you don't think these are good reasons, then you sir, are the idiot. Or you're just a subversive Jesuit.
Could this be our beloved Kreuzritter yet again using a Socket account? The similarities are striking.
Quote from: GiftOfGod on November 13, 2020, 12:45:53 PM
Quote from: Gerard on November 13, 2020, 11:20:34 AM
Quote from: GiftOfGod on November 13, 2020, 12:34:03 AM
It was first published in 1985 and Hardon is a Jesuit. I wouldn't use that as toilet paper.
Well, if those are your "reasons," you're an idiot and I would doubt your ability to properly use toilet paper. Seriously, what smug, vacuous and inane criteria.
QuoteThese early companions who were "staunch Lutherans" helped to form his religious thinking: "Years before the Ecumenical Movement I had come to respect and cherish Protestants."
You are a deceptive, lying scumbag.
Here's why: I grabbed whole paragraph from Wikipedia that you deliberately snipped in order to decieve people.
QuoteFor added income Hardon's mother took in two young Lutheran girls as boarders named Judith and Susan, who lived with them for at least eight years.[8][4] The three-year-old Hardon protested at having to abstain from meat on Friday while his boarder "sisters" could indulge. In response his mother asked the girls "My boy is growing up: he's asking embarrassing questions. Would you mind either abstaining from eating meat on Friday or find yourselves somewhere else to board?" The girls choose to join the fast with permission from their minister. These early companions who were "staunch Lutherans" helped to form his religious thinking: "Years before the Ecumenical Movement I had come to respect and cherish Protestants."[8]
Your first example did a complete face plant. Should I waste my time unpacking the rest of your lies?
Here's the kicker: You didn't even have one citation from the Catholic Dictionary that I cited as a useful source for someone just starting to explore the faith. That's just more proof of your utter idiocy and desire to be nothing but a lying trouble maker.
Here's one:
CALUMNY. Injuring another person's good name by lying. It is doubly sinful, in unjustly depriving another of his good name and in telling an untruth. Since calumny violates justice, it involves the duty of making reparation for the foreseen injury inflicted. Hence the calumniator must try, not only to repair the harm done to another's good name, but also to make up for any foreseen temporal loss that resulted from the calumny, for example, loss of employment or customers. (Etym. Latin calumnia, a false accusation, malicious charge; from calvi, to deceive.)--Fr. John Hardon Modern Catholic Dictionary
QuoteThe fact that Hardon was a Jesuit buddy-buddy with post-Vatican II popes should be enough information on its face for any good traditional Catholic to dismiss his work but his work is even more disturbing.
Right. You have no "facts" you simply fabricate. You know nothing of what constitutes a good Catholic. You know nothing of the times and people you think you are entitle to sin in judgment of. You are definitionally giving off the vibe of a merciless, loveless, unjust caricature of Catholicism. That'll send you to Hell pretty directly if you don't deal with it. Take that as a charitable warning.
QuoteIf you don't think these are good reasons, then you sir, are the idiot. Or you're just a subversive Jesuit.
Naturally you'd state that. Because anything that goes against your irrational solipsism must be labeled by you as a protection for your fragile little ego. You actually come off as anti-Catholic Protestants that I deal with on other "forums." Forget the fact that you lied and gave no "reasons" in the proper sense, it's clear you are a nutcase. Probably a Pedo-Freemason trying to subvert this forum. (see? I can do hurl the assertions too. :)
"Gift of God" a little narcissistic aren't you? Has your therapist declared that you've crossed over into pure psychopathy yet?
Quote from: Gerard on November 13, 2020, 08:52:10 PM
Quote from: GiftOfGod on November 13, 2020, 12:45:53 PM
QuoteThese early companions who were "staunch Lutherans" helped to form his religious thinking: "Years before the Ecumenical Movement I had come to respect and cherish Protestants."
You are a deceptive, lying scumbag.
Here's why: I grabbed whole paragraph from Wikipedia that you deliberately snipped in order to decieve people.
QuoteFor added income Hardon's mother took in two young Lutheran girls as boarders named Judith and Susan, who lived with them for at least eight years.[8][4] The three-year-old Hardon protested at having to abstain from meat on Friday while his boarder "sisters" could indulge. In response his mother asked the girls "My boy is growing up: he's asking embarrassing questions. Would you mind either abstaining from eating meat on Friday or find yourselves somewhere else to board?" The girls choose to join the fast with permission from their minister. These early companions who were "staunch Lutherans" helped to form his religious thinking: "Years before the Ecumenical Movement I had come to respect and cherish Protestants."[8]
Your first example did a complete face plant. Should I waste my time unpacking the rest of your lies?
How is it deceptive or a faceplant? You really think the context makes his praise of Protestants OK?
But please continue "unpacking" as I would be very interested in seeing your defense of
his trailblazing employment at Protestant seminaries, being an advisor at the Second Vatican Council, and implementing the Second Vatican Council in Rome from the top-down. Don't forget to "unpack"
his covering up for his pedophile Jesuit friend, which makes him morally responsible for his friend's subsequent pedophilic conduct. The fact that you are on a traditional Catholic forum and defend a guy who helped the Second Vatican Council cook up
Sacrosanctum Concilium (which set the stage for the New Mass) is astounding. Sit back and reflect on the damage you have done to your soul and the souls of others by promoting this modernist's book.
By the way, it's ironic that you accuse me of calumny when I have provided almost a dozen examples of why Hardon was in the very least flirting with heresy. Yet you yourself calumny me by saying that I'm narcissistic, that I have a therapist, and asking rhetorically if I have "crossed over into pure psychopathy yet". Same with you saying that I am "probably a Pedo-Freemason". That's an interesting thing to accuse me of, considering that I am condemning
"Fr." James "friend-of-pedos" Hardon for designing and implementing the Masonic Second Vatican Council's constitution on liturgy. Take a look in the mirror...if you dare.
Quote from: GiftOfGod on November 13, 2020, 09:22:53 PM
How is it deceptive or a faceplant? You really think the context makes his praise of Protestants OK?
It's good enough for Jesus. When the Apostles told him others were casting out demons in His name and they told them to stop, Jesus rebuked the intolerance. You are required by God to love Protestants. You can reject Protestantism and still love Protestants. Protestants adopting Catholic traditions is a good thing, the more they adopt the closer they are to converting.
Lots of good Protestants become good Catholics. Lots of bad Catholics become good Catholics as well.
QuoteBut please continue "unpacking" as I would be very interested in seeing your defense of....
...blah...blah..blah... I'm not jumping through hoops for you.
Simply put, you can't find anything wrong with the Hardon Catholic Dictionary. So, you want to go on a Witch Hunt because probably that's what you think Catholicism is. You really are more of a Puritan than a Catholic.
QuoteBy the way, it's ironic that you accuse me of calumny when I have provided almost a dozen examples of why Hardon was in the very least flirting with heresy.
Flirting with heresy is not a "thing." I'm accusing you of calumny because that's what you did. You can't justify your first example because it was so distorted and slanted and intentionally trying to decieve.
QuoteYet you yourself calumny me by saying that I'm narcissistic, that I have a therapist, and asking rhetorically if I have "crossed over into pure psychopathy yet". Same with you saying that I am "probably a Pedo-Freemason".
You can or anyone else tell that what I posted was tongue in cheek and demonstrating your own absurd claims with a tit for tat. So, are you now admitting that you engaged in calumny?
QuoteThat's an interesting thing to accuse me of, considering that I am condemning "Fr." James "friend-of-pedos" Hardon for designing and implementing the Masonic Second Vatican Council's constitution on liturgy. Take a look in the mirror...if you dare.
The quotes around "Fr." tell me that you're one of these Catholics that think God is out to screw you and everyone over with invalid preists because some imagined or extraneous rubric is necessary for validity or if a priest looked at someone cross-eyed or watched a football game he's "out of the Church!" Oh and I can look in the mirror just fine. Middle -aged but still gifted with dashing, youthful looks.
I remember getting into it with someone who was trashing Fr. Malachi Martin a few years back and they went on this hyperbolic tear about his involvement in Nostra Aetate. This loser called it "an abomination" and claimed Fr. Martin was "instrumental" in it's promulgation with a litany of vague accusations about its effect. So, I asked him what specifically in Nostra Aetate could he link directly to Fr. Martin and what specifically about it was "an abomination." Funny that he couldn't answer that. I tried and tried to get him to focus on specifics and he just didn't seem to want to do that. It may have required some humility on his part and that was too high a price to pay for truth.
So, I'll do the same in your case. What specific ideas of Fr. Hardon's were adopted into Sacrosanctum Concillium that you can trace specifically back to him?
Also, can you or can you not point to some critical flaws in the Hardon dictionary that make it worth less than toilet paper? Better yet, have you ever even looked at it?
I've got my copy. Show me what's the big issue with it? Here's your chance to save me from a perilous error.
Very well put Gerard. I also have Hardon's dictionary on my book shelf. I can spot it across the room, as I puff my cigar and sip on my Jim Beam.
It will be interesting to see if you get an intelligible answer, from The Gift. It no doubt helped me, and countless other Catholics, learn the specific terminology of the Church's structures, theology, liturgy, etc. Only Rigorism would reject this good priest's works.
Quote from: Gerard on November 14, 2020, 09:44:53 PM
The quotes around "Fr." tell me that you're one of these Catholics that think God is out to screw you and everyone over with invalid preists because some imagined or extraneous rubric is necessary for validity or if a priest looked at someone cross-eyed or watched a football game he's "out of the Church!"
I'm a sedevacantist, so if I can believe that Paul VI is really just plain-old Giovanni Montini, then the same applies to a priest.
Quote from: Gerard on November 14, 2020, 09:44:53 PM
I've got my copy. Show me what's the big issue with it? Here's your chance to save me from a perilous error.
I have no inclination to read something that isn't fit to wipe my butt with.
Quote from: christulsa on November 14, 2020, 09:56:35 PM
Very well put Gerard. I also have Hardon's dictionary on my book shelf. I can spot it across the room, as I puff my cigar and sip on my Jim Beam.
At least you know where there is a spare ashtray in your house.
Quote from: christulsa on November 14, 2020, 09:56:35 PM
It no doubt helped me, and countless other Catholics, learn the specific terminology of the Church's structures, theology, liturgy, etc. Only Rigorism would reject this good priest's works.
Oh yeah, it's Rigorist to not want to read about the NewChurch's "Liturgy", theology, and structures.
Quote from: GiftOfGod on November 14, 2020, 10:01:00 PM
Quote from: Gerard on November 14, 2020, 09:44:53 PM
The quotes around "Fr." tell me that you're one of these Catholics that think God is out to screw you and everyone over with invalid preists because some imagined or extraneous rubric is necessary for validity or if a priest looked at someone cross-eyed or watched a football game he's "out of the Church!"
I'm a sedevacantist, so if I can believe that Paul VI is really just plain-old Giovanni Montini, then the same applies to a priest.
Expressing doubts about the validity if VII popes and priests is reserved for the SV forum. Something tells me you really don't care about that Rule, sir. Or the people here.
Quote from: Gerard on November 14, 2020, 09:44:53 PM
I've got my copy. Show me what's the big issue with it? Here's your chance to save me from a perilous error.
I have no inclination to read something that isn't fit to wipe my butt with.
[/quote]
Even this disdain for VII priests is not permitted in the SV subforum, or becoming of a Catholic in possession of himself. Even St. John Cardinal Newmann, once a schismatic, doubtfully valid Anglican priest, was respected for his holiness and defense of the Faith, before his official conversion
Quote from: christulsa on November 14, 2020, 09:56:35 PM
Very well put Gerard. I also have Hardon's dictionary on my book shelf. I can spot it across the room, as I puff my cigar and sip on my Jim Beam.
At least you know where there is a spare ashtray in your house.
Quote from: christulsa on November 14, 2020, 09:56:35 PM
It no doubt helped me, and countless other Catholics, learn the specific terminology of the Church's structures, theology, liturgy, etc. Only Rigorism would reject this good priest's works.
Oh yeah, it's Rigorist to not want to read about the NewChurch's "Liturgy", theology, and structures.
[/quote]
You do come across as a Rigorist, yes.
Quote from: christulsa on November 14, 2020, 10:19:34 PMEven this disdain for VII priests is not permitted in the SV subforum, or becoming of a Catholic in possession of himself. Even St. John Cardinal Newmann, once a schismatic, doubtfully valid Anglican priest, was respected for his holiness and defense of the Faith, before his official conversion
Oh please. St. Newmann didn't assist at forming the Vatican II's constitution on liturgy (which paved the way for the New Mass) and assist in implementing the Second Vatican Council from Rome. Comparing a saint to this heretic/pedo enabler is like comparing apples to oranges.
Quote from: christulsa on November 14, 2020, 09:56:35 PM
Very well put Gerard. I also have Hardon's dictionary on my book shelf. I can spot it across the room, as I puff my cigar and sip on my Jim Beam.
Oh man...I long for a day like that again. (Been a caregiver, going on a decade now. )
Quote
It will be interesting to see if you get an intelligible answer, from The Gift. It no doubt helped me, and countless other Catholics, learn the specific terminology of the Church's structures, theology, liturgy, etc. Only Rigorism would reject this good priest's works.
There's a ruthlessness and mercilessness, a kind of bitterness that infects many people like this. They stop looking for the truth and focus only on hunting down even if they have to invent it, change punctuation or simply smear someone because they didn't agree with everything the attacker believes in.
Quote from: GiftOfGod on November 14, 2020, 10:01:00 PM
Quote from: Gerard on November 14, 2020, 09:44:53 PM
The quotes around "Fr." tell me that you're one of these Catholics that think God is out to screw you and everyone over with invalid preists because some imagined or extraneous rubric is necessary for validity or if a priest looked at someone cross-eyed or watched a football game he's "out of the Church!"
I'm a sedevacantist, so if I can believe that Paul VI is really just plain-old Giovanni Montini, then the same applies to a priest.
You will obviously believe anything based on nothing. I wonder how much Catholic doctrine you invent out of thin air or what theological speculations you view as infallible dogma?
QuoteQuote from: Gerard on November 14, 2020, 09:44:53 PM
I've got my copy. Show me what's the big issue with it? Here's your chance to save me from a perilous error.
I have no inclination to read something that isn't fit to wipe my butt with.
So....you're ignorant. That's what you're stating. If you won't even wipe yourself with it, why are you bothering to comment on it? Unless.... is wiping your butt with something the first step in familiarizing yourself with something? Wipe your butt with it? Then, step 2 is what? Do you just hold it for a while? At what point does something become worthy of you reading it?
At what point does your irrational hatred give way to reason?
QuoteQuote from: christulsa on November 14, 2020, 09:56:35 PM
Very well put Gerard. I also have Hardon's dictionary on my book shelf. I can spot it across the room, as I puff my cigar and sip on my Jim Beam.
At least you know where there is a spare ashtray in your house.
And we all know what books are for in your house.
QuoteQuote from: christulsa on November 14, 2020, 09:56:35 PM
It no doubt helped me, and countless other Catholics, learn the specific terminology of the Church's structures, theology, liturgy, etc. Only Rigorism would reject this good priest's works.
Oh yeah, it's Rigorist to not want to read about the NewChurch's "Liturgy", theology, and structures.
Someone just starting out will benefit greatly in the definitions of the Eastern Rites when they learn there are more liturgies and rites than just their local parish and they would also notice in the definition of "Latin" that their local parish and school never did teach them the Latin that was ordered by Vatican II.
But you don't know what's in it or not in it since you refuse to read it with some level of scorn that is totally disproportionate. I would bet, you've probably got some spiritual oppression going on and something in that book or Hardon's other works contains something the demon doesn't want you to learn.
Quote from: Gerard on November 16, 2020, 01:09:12 AM
Quote from: GiftOfGod on November 14, 2020, 10:01:00 PM
I'm a sedevacantist, so if I can believe that Paul VI is really just plain-old Giovanni Montini, then the same applies to a priest.
You will obviously believe anything based on nothing. I wonder how much Catholic doctrine you invent out of thin air or what theological speculations you view as infallible dogma?
Do you really want me to bring out the dogma proving sedevacantism?
Quote from: Gerard on November 16, 2020, 01:09:12 AM
Quote from: christulsa on November 14, 2020, 09:56:35 PM
Quote from: GiftOfGod on November 14, 2020, 10:01:00 PM
Very well put Gerard. I also have Hardon's dictionary on my book shelf. I can spot it across the room, as I puff my cigar and sip on my Jim Beam.
At least you know where there is a spare ashtray in your house.
And we all know what books are for in your house.
I also use crap books as drink coasters
Quote from: Gerard on November 16, 2020, 01:09:12 AM
Someone just starting out will benefit greatly in the definitions of the Eastern Rites when they learn there are more liturgies and rites than just their local parish and they would also notice in the definition of "Latin" that their local parish and school never did teach them the Latin that was ordered by Vatican II.
But you don't know what's in it or not in it since you refuse to read it with some level of scorn that is totally disproportionate. I would bet, you've probably got some spiritual oppression going on and something in that book or Hardon's other works contains something the demon doesn't want you to learn.
Catholics aren't supposed to change rites without good reason, so that curiosity about other rites serves no purpose. IDGAD about what was "ordered" by Vatican II. It was a false and heretical/apostate council promulgated by a sodomite antipope. Obviously you haven't realized that yet (or you have and you are of bad will).
Quote from: GiftOfGod on November 16, 2020, 03:11:05 AM
Do you really want me to bring out the dogma proving sedevacantism?
No. I only want to correct you on the topic at hand. Whatever you pull out is going to show that you are a Neo-Ultramontanist with an inflated view of papal charisms.
QuoteQuote
And we all know what books are for in your house.
I also use crap books as drink coasters
Ah! Probably too much. Drunk posting.
QuoteQuote from: Gerard on November 16, 2020, 01:09:12 AM
Someone just starting out will benefit greatly in the definitions of the Eastern Rites when they learn there are more liturgies and rites than just their local parish and they would also notice in the definition of "Latin" that their local parish and school never did teach them the Latin that was ordered by Vatican II.
But you don't know what's in it or not in it since you refuse to read it with some level of scorn that is totally disproportionate. I would bet, you've probably got some spiritual oppression going on and something in that book or Hardon's other works contains something the demon doesn't want you to learn.
Catholics aren't supposed to change rites without good reason, so that curiosity about other rites serves no purpose.
I didn't write anything about Catholics changing rites. I pointed out that many Catholics have no knowledge of them. I remember before I knew about them, I was struck by the Orthodox liturgy. And then I found out how much it had in common with the TLM. After that, I wanted to learn more about the TLM.
And if one liturgy strengthens your faith dramatically more than another, that's as good a reason as any to change rites.
QuoteIDGAD about what was "ordered" by Vatican II. It was a false and heretical/apostate council promulgated by a sodomite antipope. Obviously you haven't realized that yet (or you have and you are of bad will).
You're ignorant and deliberately so. Whether you are wrong or right is of no relevanct to you and you want to spread that ignorance. What's your game, really? You contribute nothing of value because you can't back up your half-baked and false claims. You really must have a demonic oppression at work on you. I'll say some Aves for you.
You: " I haven't read that book, but I'm going to tell you all about it and to stay away from it."
Anything else you don't care about and know nothing of that you want to lecture about?
Quote from: Gerard on November 13, 2020, 11:20:34 AM
Quote from: GiftOfGod on November 13, 2020, 12:34:03 AM
Quote from: Gerard on February 27, 2017, 03:06:01 PM
One of the best books I found especially early on was simply a good Catholic Dictionary. Fr. Hardon's Pocket Dictionary is great for quick reading, just snooping around and seeing what you can learn. You might look up one word and then be curious about another one on the same page or so. There are a couple of quibble's I have with Fr. Hardon nowadays but all in all it's a good book to use.
It was first published in 1985 and Hardon is a Jesuit. I wouldn't use that as toilet paper.
Well, if those are your "reasons," you're an idiot and I would doubt your ability to properly use toilet paper. Seriously, what smug, vacuous and inane criteria.
I have Fr Hardon's dictionary. It is obviously cognisant of V2 in this or that entry, but I found nothing but straightforward and helpful definitions. Mine is a softback that unaccountably is very fragile at the spine, unlike, say, s copy of
Profiles in Courage, which has no issue save discolouration. Maybe bad glue, maybe one was used more than the other. I therefore take care in using it. Good, helpful, clear. I cannot claim any great knowledge, so it has helped me.