Just got booted from another "catholic" forum..am I wrong here?

[Armor of Light]

Called homo attraction a perversion. Not only the act itself, but the condition.

Is that wrong?

[Carleendiane]

Called homo attraction a perversion. Not only the act itself, but the condition.

Is that wrong?

Nope. Was in psychiatric books as a mental disorder until 1973. Then it became politically incorrect to call it a disorder.

[Greg]

It's 'wrong' in the sense that the mainstream Catholic church would not describe it as a perversion.

Survey and educated opinion suggests that ~ 50% of priests are homosexually inclined.  It's certainly at least 30%

So wrong or right it is hardly surprising you got 'booted'.

Try joining Fisheaters.com and saying transsexualism is a perversion.  See how long you last.

[Armor of Light]

Ha!

I was there witnessing that whole debacle when it happened. Haven't been back since..

[clau clau]

So off went the Emperor in procession under his splendid canopy. Everyone in the streets and the windows said, "Oh, how fine are the Emperor's new clothes! Don't they fit him to perfection? And see his long train!" Nobody would confess that he couldn't see anything, for that would prove him either unfit for his position, or a fool. No costume the Emperor had worn before was ever such a complete success.

"But he hasn't got anything on," a little child said.

"Did you ever hear such innocent prattle?" said its father. And one person whispered to another what the child had said, "He hasn't anything on. A child says he hasn't anything on."

"But he hasn't got anything on!" the whole town cried out at last.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor%27s_New_Clothes

[MilesChristi]

objectively disordered == perverted

per·vert·ed
p?r?v?rd?d/Submit
adjective
(of a person or their actions) characterized by sexually abnormal and unacceptable practices or tendencies.
"he whispered perverted obscenities"
synonyms:   unnatural, deviant, warped, corrupt, twisted, abnormal, unhealthy, depraved, perverse, aberrant, immoral, debauched, debased, degenerate, evil, wicked, vile, amoral, wrong, bad; More
(of a thing) having been corrupted or distorted from its original course, meaning, or state.
"this sudden surge of perverted patriotism"

[Armor of Light]

Yes. Thank You..

I paraphrased that definition a bit, just winging it on common sense and Catholic understanding.
Plus, I was a little extra miffed because of last month being homo pride month. My workplace took that seriously and I was annoyed.

[drummerboy]

Some of the older members might remember, but recall when it was a badge of honor to get banned from CAF lol?

[Jayne]

Some of the older members might remember, but recall when it was a badge of honor to get banned from CAF lol?

It still is to some extent, but it is not a very challenging accomplishment.  Even I have been banned from CAF.

[Greg]

characterized by sexually abnormal and unacceptable practices or tendencies.

It's now acceptable by most of society.

And even the mainstream catholic church kinda, sorta accepts it.  It would have to with 50% of priests being so inclined.  Queers were never burned at the stake as long as they didn't flaunt their behaviors.

If you are attracted, without acting, I think an argument could be made that it wasn't a perversion.  We all have bizarre thoughts now and then, but we wouldn't describe ourselves as perverts or abnormal.

It must take a fair amount of willpower to be a queer and not act out on it.  Especially now, when there's much less threat of getting beaten up or losing your job.  I'd resist attacking the ones with self-control

[MilesChristi]

It's the latter definition I was intending to highlight

(of a thing) having been corrupted or distorted from its original course, meaning, or state.
"this sudden surge of perverted patriotism"

[Greg]

Therein lies the question.

Are homo-sexually inclined people born or made.

What, for example, would you make of a 5 year old, the last in a large Catholic family where nobody else was queer, who dressed up as female superheros rather than male ones?

5 year old perverts?  Surely not.

Or played with dolls when GI Joe was in the toy box and showed little or no interest in the things that boys like.  It's impossible to put that down to nurture because 11 siblings before him were nurtured and turned out perfectly normal.

I'm inclined to believe that at least some effeminates are made like that.  Why?  God only knows.

Others are normal but become perverted through poor experiences, abuse, self-abuse.

[Maximilian]

Called homo attraction a perversion. Not only the act itself, but the condition.

Is that wrong?

Nope. Was in psychiatric books as a mental disorder until 1973. Then it became politically incorrect to call it a disorder.

As recently as the eighties, Ratzinger as head of the CDF published a document that said the homosexual inclination itself is "intrinsically disordered."

If these people are "conservative N.O.," they should be big fans of BXVI.

[MilesChristi]

Therein lies the question.

Are homo-sexually inclined people born or made.

What, for example, would you make of a 5 year old, the last in a large Catholic family where nobody else was queer, who dressed up as female superheros rather than male ones?

5 year old perverts?  Surely not.

Or played with dolls when GI Joe was in the toy box and showed little or no interest in the things that boys like.  It's impossible to put that down to nurture because 11 siblings before him were nurtured and turned out perfectly normal.

I'm inclined to believe that at least some effeminates are made like that.  Why?  God only knows.

Others are normal but become perverted through poor experiences, abuse, self-abuse.

Perverted from the nature of man itself.

It's like a man born without a nose, or retarded, or missing a leg. A disorder is a failing from what man is or should be.

[John Lamb]

Therein lies the question.

Are homo-sexually inclined people born or made.

What, for example, would you make of a 5 year old, the last in a large Catholic family where nobody else was queer, who dressed up as female superheros rather than male ones?

5 year old perverts?  Surely not.

Or played with dolls when GI Joe was in the toy box and showed little or no interest in the things that boys like.  It's impossible to put that down to nurture because 11 siblings before him were nurtured and turned out perfectly normal.

I've heard that young children who are "gender confused" almost always grow out of it once they go through puberty. Before puberty children are not really sexual creatures, so their differences are more a matter of cultural enforcement than nature (girls made to wear skirts, boys trousers, etc.). So a young boy that prefers dolls is not necessarily something to be worried about. It could be that he saw his sister playing with them, or whatever. Of course, boys and girls do start differentiating themselves before puberty, but I would suggest that that's more a desire on their part to conform to social norms and behave as they're expected. A child that's slow to pick up on this could just be less sociable and less inclined to follow social norms enthusiastically.

I'm inclined to believe that at least some effeminates are made like that.  Why?  God only knows.

I actually think that the queer theorists - gender theorists, or whatever they call themselves - may have a point in saying that our understanding of the distinction between the sexes had become too rigid. Obviously I utterly disagree with the idea that there is no distinction between the sexes or that the sexes don't have different social roles, but if you look at past societies a man wasn't necessarily suspected of being a sodomite if he preferred art and poetry, if he wasn't a typical man whose passion was war and fighting. For example, you will hear about kings and princes whose passion really was to go about waging war, and you'll hear about others whose passion was art & reading - and the latter weren't necessarily suspected of perversion. The consequence of trying to get every man to be a "man's man" is that if he doesn't have that inclination, he himself might suspect that he's a "homosexual"; and that might push men towards perversion that otherwise wouldn't have become perverts if their manhood wasn't questioned the second they turned up their nose to football or wrestling.