Author Topic: Traditional masculinity  (Read 229 times)

Offline ServusMariae

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Traditional masculinity
« on: November 13, 2017, 11:57:01 AM »
(This thread is essentially the opposite of what Davis Blank posted, but please pardon me. :P)

I am looking some online articles to aid my quest to potentially write an article for (traditional) Catholic news outlets (i.e - OnePeterFive/Catholic Exchange/Ignitum Today/insert some other conservative new sites) ..  It will be on my personal experience in the "transgender"  community thrown in with some theological exposition on the horrors of "transgenderism"  ... in the process I plan expound on the rough-&-tough beauty of the man as so overlooked & feared by "transgender" people (who are mostly men) ... but the problem is: I don't know any good article which can help me to propagate the forgotten wonder of the Catholic male. TL;DR: I'm looking for stuff opposite to what Davis is hunting for in his "traditional femininity" thread.

Side note: I have a copy of "The Nature, Dignity, and Mission of Woman " by Rev. Fr. Stehlin at home, but it's not like I can rewrite the whole book & make a special edition for dudes ... I wish I could, but can't. :(

random musing: It makes me happy to see fellow ladies & big boys happily living out their lives as females & males - just the way God created them to be since time immemorial. :)
 

Offline james03

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Re: Traditional masculinity
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2017, 12:13:42 PM »
It is not much, but I'd start by looking at the virtues of fortitude, prudence, and magnanimity.  These are discussed in Pieper's book The Four Cardinal Virtues.

Also as I recommended in the woman thread, check out the talks given by Fr. Ripperger.  In fact a recent Youtube video has him discussing transgender fags.  His talk How to Raise a Man is very popular also.
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Offline Quaremerepulisti

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Re: Traditional masculinity
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2017, 12:45:18 PM »
... in the process I plan expound on the rough-&-tough beauty of the man as so overlooked & feared by "transgender" people (who are mostly men) ... but the problem is: I don't know any good article which can help me to propagate the forgotten wonder of the Catholic male.

Of course you don't.  Because there aren't any.  The general "traditionalist" idea is that the priesthood is the one and only wonder of the Catholic male (with maybe a barely possible exception made for religious who aren't ordained) and if you are not a priest, your masculinity has no real worth or value in itself, because you weren't "real man" enough to become a priest.

The real purpose of traditionalist polemics is not to find truth, but to attempt to construct an epistemological fortress rendering one's worldview impervious to attack.
 

Offline MundaCorMeum

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Re: Traditional masculinity
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2017, 01:15:00 PM »
... in the process I plan expound on the rough-&-tough beauty of the man as so overlooked & feared by "transgender" people (who are mostly men) ... but the problem is: I don't know any good article which can help me to propagate the forgotten wonder of the Catholic male.

Of course you don't.  Because there aren't any.  The general "traditionalist" idea is that the priesthood is the one and only wonder of the Catholic male (with maybe a barely possible exception made for religious who aren't ordained) and if you are not a priest, your masculinity has no real worth or value in itself, because you weren't "real man" enough to become a priest.

wait, what???  I have never come across this idea at all.
 

Offline Lynne

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Re: Traditional masculinity
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2017, 02:04:12 PM »
... in the process I plan expound on the rough-&-tough beauty of the man as so overlooked & feared by "transgender" people (who are mostly men) ... but the problem is: I don't know any good article which can help me to propagate the forgotten wonder of the Catholic male.

Of course you don't.  Because there aren't any.  The general "traditionalist" idea is that the priesthood is the one and only wonder of the Catholic male (with maybe a barely possible exception made for religious who aren't ordained) and if you are not a priest, your masculinity has no real worth or value in itself, because you weren't "real man" enough to become a priest.

wait, what???  I have never come across this idea at all.

I know...

But, ServusMariae, this blog, https://www.catholicgentleman.net/, may offer some ideas, in addition to Fr. Ripperger...
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 
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Offline Kaesekopf

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Re: Traditional masculinity
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2017, 02:12:27 PM »
... in the process I plan expound on the rough-&-tough beauty of the man as so overlooked & feared by "transgender" people (who are mostly men) ... but the problem is: I don't know any good article which can help me to propagate the forgotten wonder of the Catholic male.

Of course you don't.  Because there aren't any.  The general "traditionalist" idea is that the priesthood is the one and only wonder of the Catholic male (with maybe a barely possible exception made for religious who aren't ordained) and if you are not a priest, your masculinity has no real worth or value in itself, because you weren't "real man" enough to become a priest.
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Offline Graham

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Re: Traditional masculinity
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2017, 05:22:56 PM »
 

Offline Chestertonian

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Re: Traditional masculinity
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2017, 11:16:54 PM »
thanks for posting this thought provoking article.  Usually the catholic men I have read/talk to seem to see compassion as a feminine thing, whereas masculinity is more about strength and stoicism.  if you are a man and compassion/empathy is a part of your personality then you are "feminine."  what is interesting is that the "compassion" this article discusses only relates to your inferiors.  So what about a son showing compassion to his father?  or a man having compassion for his pastor? 

sometimes when Catholics talk about men and women, you would think they were talking about two different species.  Different animal kingdoms, even.  I think we're more similar than we are alike.  We're all born, we all die.  Most of us have two eyes, two ears a nose and a mouth.  We think, we feel, we create, we spend most of our lives doing work we wish we didnt have to do, we raise our children, and we die.   yes, there are physical differences, genetic tendencies, and the overall reality that men are physically stronger than women, and the biological fact that only women can bear children.  i think the intellectual differences can be exaggerated too.   it's not like we're so distinct that we have nothing in common. 

i also think the way catholics tend to talk about gender roles reduces us to our social function in relation to the other sex... so what makes a man a man, is his ability to provide & protect (hence why traditional masculinity is incompatible with disability and vulnerability).  if you cant provide & protect then you arent really a man.  you have no dignity as a man, and if you have no dignity as a man, you have no dignity as a human being.  it is hard to get out of that mindset once you get there even if you know it's false



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Offline Davis Blank - EG

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Re: Traditional masculinity
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2017, 08:22:33 AM »
Madam,

I have a few recommendations.  Echoing what James said about the virtues, I would suggest reading the works of James B. Stenson.  Mr. Stenson is a Catholic former headmaster of Christian private schools and has over the years collected much valuable anecdotal insight into what makes an effective parent (especially an effective father).  His short booklet "Successful Fathers" or longer, more comprehensive work "Compass" are worthwhile.

https://scepterpublishers.org/search?q=james+stenson

He also has free excerpts from his website:  http://www.parentleadership.com/

And again, echoing James, you can listen to some of Father Ripperger's talks on masculinity.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=father+ripperger+masculinity

Or Michael Voris:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=michael+voris+masculinity

I have not read this book yet but it is sitting on my shelf:  https://www.amazon.com/Be-Man-Becoming-God-Created/dp/1586174037

Cheers.
 
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Offline Davis Blank - EG

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Re: Traditional masculinity
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2017, 08:35:58 AM »
I also think the way catholics tend to talk about gender roles reduces us to our social function in relation to the other sex... so what makes a man a man, is his ability to provide & protect (hence why traditional masculinity is incompatible with disability and vulnerability).  if you cant provide & protect then you arent really a man.  you have no dignity as a man, and if you have no dignity as a man, you have no dignity as a human being.  it is hard to get out of that mindset once you get there even if you know it's false

My friend,

A man does not cease to be a man when he becomes elderly, does he?  Nonsense.  Why then would a disabled man be anything less than a man?  Jesus was no less the perfect man when he was incapacitated on the cross.

To the extent that you are physically capable, do you put your family ahead of you?  Do you not, to the best of your physical ability, and probably often when in pain, do your best to watch your children?  It is a manly act each time you put on your best face for the sake of your children or wife, when on the inside you might be in pain and sorrow (which is not to say that you cannot express such pain and sorrow, there is a manly golden mean between emoting and stoicism).

As a father, to the best of your physical ability, do you not try to grow your children in the faith, thus working to protect them for all eternity?  How is this not a supremely manly act to protect and provide for your family for all eternity?

Guidelines are kind of like off-the-rack clothing - they are for the average man.  But if a man too big or small for OTR clothing comes to the store, that does not mean he is incapable of wearing any clothes, but rather that they must be tailored to his specific stature.  You are certainly in a highly unique situation, so why assume that guidelines for the average healthy person apply 1-for-1 to you?
 
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Offline james03

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Re: Traditional masculinity
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2017, 09:03:10 AM »
Quote
Of course you don't.  Because there aren't any. 
  Fr. Ripperger's talk on raising men is probably the best on the topic I've ever heard, from either secular or Catholic.  We also have the fruits to look at.  I like hearing talks about Pat Buchanan on his childhood.  I remember my own childhood where boys would gather around for a fist fight and the parents didn't care about it.  Or consider the FBI, which became highly Catholic because Catholic men were highly valued by the Feds.  Same with the 50's CIA, or the military.  Traditional Catholic culture raised men to be manly.  Much of it was handed down as oral tradition I assume though I imagine there are books out there.  Watch the movie "The Red and the Black" and the opening scene is the priest boxing.

Quote
The general "traditionalist" idea is that the priesthood is the one and only wonder of the Catholic male (with maybe a barely possible exception made for religious who aren't ordained) and if you are not a priest, your masculinity has no real worth or value in itself, because you weren't "real man" enough to become a priest.
This is a complaint I've had.  The idea of "State in Life" is alien to many a Trad.  I've complained in the past of Trad schools stopping math at Algebra 2, which is absurd. 
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"If what they are saying is true, the problem is not that they are the ones saying it: the problem is that we are not the ones saying it."
 
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Offline ServusMariae

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Re: Traditional masculinity
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2017, 09:15:36 AM »
Madam,

I have a few recommendations.  Echoing what James said about the virtues, I would suggest reading the works of James B. Stenson.  Mr. Stenson is a Catholic former headmaster of Christian private schools and has over the years collected much valuable anecdotal insight into what makes an effective parent (especially an effective father).  His short booklet "Successful Fathers" or longer, more comprehensive work "Compass" are worthwhile.

https://scepterpublishers.org/search?q=james+stenson

He also has free excerpts from his website:  http://www.parentleadership.com/

And again, echoing James, you can listen to some of Father Ripperger's talks on masculinity.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=father+ripperger+masculinity

Or Michael Voris:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=michael+voris+masculinity

I have not read this book yet but it is sitting on my shelf:  https://www.amazon.com/Be-Man-Becoming-God-Created/dp/1586174037

Cheers.

Davis, thank you so much for dropping by this thread & for posting your recommendations. I deeply appreciate it. ^-^ Sadly, I'm forbidden by my family to purchase anything (let alone books) on the Web, so my only option is to look into free online articles & resources. Thank you nonetheless. Cheers!
 

Offline ServusMariae

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Re: Traditional masculinity
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2017, 09:19:54 AM »
A man does not cease to be a man when he becomes elderly, does he?  Nonsense.  Why then would a disabled man be anything less than a man?  Jesus was no less the perfect man when he was incapacitated on the cross.

Btw, this reminds me of an article I saw 0000.5 seconds ago: http://nypost.com/2017/03/29/transgender-wwii-veteran-comes-out-as-a-woman-at-90/

("Lord, have mercy on this elderly soul..." :pray2:)
 

Offline Graham

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Re: Traditional masculinity
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2017, 12:16:14 PM »
thanks for posting this thought provoking article.  Usually the catholic men I have read/talk to seem to see compassion as a feminine thing, whereas masculinity is more about strength and stoicism.  if you are a man and compassion/empathy is a part of your personality then you are "feminine."  what is interesting is that the "compassion" this article discusses only relates to your inferiors.  So what about a son showing compassion to his father?  or a man having compassion for his pastor? 

sometimes when Catholics talk about men and women, you would think they were talking about two different species.  Different animal kingdoms, even.  I think we're more similar than we are alike.  We're all born, we all die.  Most of us have two eyes, two ears a nose and a mouth.  We think, we feel, we create, we spend most of our lives doing work we wish we didnt have to do, we raise our children, and we die.   yes, there are physical differences, genetic tendencies, and the overall reality that men are physically stronger than women, and the biological fact that only women can bear children.  i think the intellectual differences can be exaggerated too.   it's not like we're so distinct that we have nothing in common. 

i also think the way catholics tend to talk about gender roles reduces us to our social function in relation to the other sex... so what makes a man a man, is his ability to provide & protect (hence why traditional masculinity is incompatible with disability and vulnerability).  if you cant provide & protect then you arent really a man.  you have no dignity as a man, and if you have no dignity as a man, you have no dignity as a human being.  it is hard to get out of that mindset once you get there even if you know it's false

His argument isn't that that's the only way men are allowed to express compassion or that women can't express it that way. It's just more typical of men, and it's linked to hierarchy and leadership, so it's fair to call it masculine.
 
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