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The issue was discussed in a council meeting, where a couple of people from our church, and others concerned, had 2 minutes each to present our case. As a result, one council member has sent an official letter to the city district attorney (cc'ing the mayor) detailing what needs to be investigated regarding the leasing and use of the chapel, given its historical status. It's good to know that SOMEONE in city hall is on our side!

Keep praying...
OP banned for trolling
The survey questions are leading; fail.


As for the question, it's answered very plainly in the Athanasian Creed.

Whoever wishes to be saved must, above all, keep the Catholic faith.

For unless a person keeps this faith whole and entire, he will undoubtedly be lost forever.

This is what the Catholic faith teaches: we worship one God in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity.

Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the substance.

For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Spirit.

But the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit have one divinity, equal glory, and coeternal majesty.

What the Father is, the Son is, and the Holy Spirit is.

The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, and the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is boundless, the Son is boundless, and the Holy Spirit is boundless.

The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal, and the Holy Spirit is eternal.

Nevertheless, there are not three eternal beings, but one eternal being.

So there are not three uncreated beings, nor three boundless beings, but one uncreated being and one boundless being.

Likewise, the Father is omnipotent, the Son is omnipotent, the Holy Spirit is omnipotent.

Yet there are not three omnipotent beings, but one omnipotent being.

Thus the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.

However, there are not three gods, but one God.

The Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, and the Holy Spirit is Lord.

However, there as not three lords, but one Lord.

For as we are obliged by Christian truth to acknowledge every Person singly to be God and Lord, so too are we forbidden by the Catholic religion to say that there are three Gods or Lords.

The Father was not made, nor created, nor generated by anyone.

The Son is not made, nor created, but begotten by the Father alone.

The Holy Spirit is not made, nor created, nor generated, but proceeds from the Father and the Son.

There is, then, one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

In this Trinity, there is nothing before or after, nothing greater or less. The entire three Persons are coeternal and coequal with one another.

So that in all things, as is has been said above, the Unity is to be worshipped in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity.

He, therefore, who wishes to be saved, must believe thus about the Trinity.

It is also necessary for eternal salvation that he believes steadfastly in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Thus the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is both God and man.

As God, He was begotten of the substance of the Father before time; as man, He was born in time of the substance of His Mother.

He is perfect God; and He is perfect man, with a rational soul and human flesh.

He is equal to the Father in His divinity, but inferior to the Father in His humanity.

Although He is God and man, He is not two, but one Christ.

And He is one, not because His divinity was changed into flesh, but because His humanity was assumed unto God.

He is one, not by a mingling of substances, but by unity of person.

As a rational soul and flesh are one man: so God and man are one Christ.

He died for our salvation, descended into hell, and rose from the dead on the third day.

He ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty. From there He shall come to judge the living and the dead.

At His coming, all men are to arise with their own bodies; and they are to give an account of their own deeds.

Those who have done good deeds will go into eternal life; those who have done evil will go into the everlasting fire.

This is the Catholic faith. Everyone must believe it, firmly and steadfastly; otherwise He cannot be saved.

The Coffee Pot / Re: Timetraveling Heinrich und Gardener
« Last post by Gardener on November 16, 2018, 04:44:59 PM »
General Information / Re: Banned Members and Reasons
« Last post by Kaesekopf on November 16, 2018, 04:19:27 PM »
JesusIsGod is permabanned for being a troll.  See this thread for one example. 
Indulgences have been long deemed sinful.
You cannot "pay" to have your sins removed quicker.
Come on guys, lets be better.

You need catechesis on indulgences, badly.

1) An indulgence is not the removal of sin. That is known as forgiveness and takes place within the confessional or with perfect contrition (for mortal sins); for venial sins it can take place in the same manner, or through prayers and pious acts (Our Father, crossing oneself devoutly with holy water, receiving Holy Communion, etc.). A person in/with mortal sin cannot gain an indulgence.

2) Though a sin may be forgiven, it still merits a temporal punishment

3) Temporal punishment can be remitted via works of charity (broadly speaking); the treasury of these spiritual gifts come from the merits of Christ's sacrifice on the Cross, and the Saints who made satisfaction beyond their own debt. Because the Blessed Virgin Mary was sinless, and spent every moment of her life on earth gaining merits, we are especially indebted to her over all creatures for the gift of indulgences written in the blood, sweat, and tears of her prayers and good works -- themselves made possible in the foreknowledge of God of her merits in light of the Cross and as begun at her Immaculate Conception. To put it simply, our good works/prayers are actually from Christ, primarily. Having done them, we become closer to Him, and thus less like "ourselves" -- the condition of our fallen nature which precipitated the sins to begin with.

Sure they are.
Why do only Catholics who are well of recieve them?
Jesus never sold indulgences to the highest bidder an neither should we.

Where does the Bible ever say that there is ontological subordination in the Trinity?

And who has authority to interpret the Bible, if not the Church?
The Coffee Pot / Re: Timetraveling Heinrich und Gardener
« Last post by Michael Wilson on November 16, 2018, 03:55:12 PM »
Whom is whom?
The Coffee Pot / Timetraveling Heinrich und Gardener
« Last post by Gardener on November 16, 2018, 02:03:13 PM »
General News and Discussion / Re: Epic Fires: "Like Armageddon"
« Last post by Elizabeth on November 16, 2018, 01:40:47 PM »
Ah, just read 638 or something--honestly this is like the Fireball of Redemption or whatever people used to sort of joke about.  The Bay Area first covered in human feces and now too much smoke for the kids to go to their gender-fluid school.  Christ have mercy on us sinners.
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