"Eleison Comments" by Mgr. Williamson - Issue CCCLV - 355 (English)

tmw89 · May 03, 2014, 02:55:52 PM

Number CCCLV (355) 3rd May 2014

FAREWELL, SSPX.

Bad news from France : the 40-year fight for the Faith by the Society of St Pius X against the modernists in Rome is virtually over. Oh, the Society's priories, schools, seminaries and associated convents and monasteries will continue to function, to provide for at least a while valid sacraments and decent doctrine, maintaining all the appearances of Tradition, but the essential fight for the complete Faith will be censored, or self-censored, out of existence. It looks like being only a limited number of priests more that will have the understanding of Archbishop Lefebvre's work and the necessary courage to break ranks and take to the hills.

The news is that the modernists in Rome are offering to the Society a « recognition by tolerance » without the need for any formal agreement or signed document such as raised within the SSPX so much opposition to a deal with Rome in the spring and early summer of 2012. Here is the essence of how the Society's Second Assistant, Fr. Alain Nély, expressed it, with enthusiasm, to two members of religious Orders three months ago : « The solution for the SSPX will be its unilateral recognition by Rome...we will not be asked to sign anything...to see how things evolve...we shall see. »

To prevent such a revelation from spreading, the Society's Superior General wrote to the two religious concerned that they had misunderstood Fr. Nély's remarks because there was no kind of « agreement » in view. Of course not. Therein lies the cunning of the proposed « recognition » without signature. It will allow numbers of SSPX priests to pretend that nothing will have changed so that they can continue their ministry just as before. Thus, as reported, Bishop Fellay himself recently told SSPX seminarians in Zaitzkofen : « There is no question of signing any agreement, etc., etc.» However, ten minutes later, « But if Rome proposes a recognition of tolerance for us, that's a different matter, that would be very good. »

And so there is every likelihood, sooner rather than later, that a large number of SSPX priests will docilely follow their official leaders into the embrace of the loving modernists in Rome, an embrace that will become over time as tight as necessary to stifle any remaining effort to fight against that deadly modernism which is killing off the official Church and putting millions of souls on the path to Hell. In retrospect one may guess that Bishop Fellay has worked skilfully with the Romans towards this embrace for at least the last 15 years. Bishop de Galarreta has seen what is at stake, but has thrown in his lot with Bishop Fellay. Bishop Tissier also sees clearly the deadly threat to the Archbishop's work, but he does not see the need to follow the Archbishop's example of putting the Faith before all normal rules of obedience and unity.

And so, dear friends, if we wish to keep the fullness of the Faith and help others to do so, we must at least internally take to the hills. Have no fear. Keep a cool head. There is no need to lose heart, or despair. God does not change, and the fight for his cause becomes more glorious than ever. Priests, keep watch, and above all do not deceive yourselves that nothing in the Society is changing. It has already essentially changed. Lay-folk, keep watch also, and pray, and God will give you the leaders and priests of your prayers. In God we trust, and in his Blessed Mother.

Kyrie eleison.

Catholics, when you see how Rome fulfils
A cry for recognition, take to the hills !

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Larry · May 03, 2014, 03:28:21 PM

I hope this isn't true. Would the SSPX be naive enough to have an agreement with Rome now, with Francis as the head of the Vatican institution? That could be suicide.

Petrie · May 03, 2014, 03:34:10 PM

recognition of tolerance

If that isn't the biggest bunch of bullshit I've heard in a long time, I don't know what is.

ImperialGuardsman · May 03, 2014, 03:44:34 PM

Quote from: Larry on May 03, 2014, 03:28:21 PM
I hope this isn't true. Would the SSPX be naive enough to have an agreement with Rome now, with Francis as the head of the Vatican institution? That could be suicide.

That does seem odd, doesn't it?

Playing Devil's advocate for a moment: What if Francis really doesn't care about the SSPX? He might dislike or despise tradition, but what if he is happy to let them "do what they're doing?" Sure, he stepped on the Franciscans of the Immaculate, but perhaps (in his mind) the difference was that the order was not specifically a TLM group and, therefore, it was his job to stifle the old Mass there. The SSPX is a TLM group, so they are a different case. Wishful thinking, obviously.

james03 · May 03, 2014, 05:09:53 PM

Confusing. So Rome unilaterally recognizes the SSPX, and they sign nothing? Is this correct?

Sounds great to me. Personally I think that the SSPX should drop any "fight" and just provide the sacraments. It is time to ignore Rome. God is going to flatten the place. Kind of like Lot leaving Sodom. Just concentrate on building up the SSPX. Provide the Mass and provide schooling.

I find this hard to believe, but if true, SSPX will/does have full recognition. I wonder if FSSP priests will jump ship. Some might. Anyone have any more info on this?

Roland Deschain2 · May 03, 2014, 06:50:54 PM

Quote from: james03 on May 03, 2014, 05:09:53 PM
Confusing. So Rome unilaterally recognizes the SSPX, and they sign nothing? Is this correct?

Sounds great to me. Personally I think that the SSPX should drop any "fight" and just provide the sacraments. It is time to ignore Rome. God is going to flatten the place. Kind of like Lot leaving Sodom. Just concentrate on building up the SSPX. Provide the Mass and provide schooling.

I find this hard to believe, but if true, SSPX will/does have full recognition. I wonder if FSSP priests will jump ship. Some might. Anyone have any more info on this?

Bishop Fellay spoke about this a couple weeks ago at his talk in Dillwyn, Va and seemed to at least state that this was a real possibility. It certainly seems credible that this is going to be the route that Rome and the SSPX takes.

+Fellay mentioned that Francis is not a "doctrine" guy but a "pastoral" guy. In his estimation this was a good thing in that Rome will "tolerate" the SSPX in the spirit of pastoral sensitivity.

Personally I find the heretics in Rome intolerable and their offer to tolerate Catholicism inside their Institution to be beneath contempt.

james03 · May 03, 2014, 07:08:37 PM

QuoteIt certainly seems credible that this is going to be the route that Rome and the SSPX takes.

What "route" would the SSPX take? It says they sign nothing, Rome just recognizes them. This is the part I am confused about. Doesn't seem likely.

ServusSpiritusSancti · May 03, 2014, 07:14:03 PM

Quote from: james03 on May 03, 2014, 05:09:53 PM
Confusing. So Rome unilaterally recognizes the SSPX, and they sign nothing? Is this correct?

Sounds great to me. Personally I think that the SSPX should drop any "fight" and just provide the sacraments. It is time to ignore Rome. God is going to flatten the place. Kind of like Lot leaving Sodom. Just concentrate on building up the SSPX. Provide the Mass and provide schooling.

I find this hard to believe, but if true, SSPX will/does have full recognition. I wonder if FSSP priests will jump ship. Some might. Anyone have any more info on this?

Archbishop Lefebvre would never have approved of his Society "dropping the fight" against the modernists.

JuniorCouncilor · May 03, 2014, 07:15:50 PM

Quote from: Roland Deschain2 on May 03, 2014, 06:50:54 PM
Quote from: james03 on May 03, 2014, 05:09:53 PM
Confusing. So Rome unilaterally recognizes the SSPX, and they sign nothing? Is this correct?

Sounds great to me. Personally I think that the SSPX should drop any "fight" and just provide the sacraments. It is time to ignore Rome. God is going to flatten the place. Kind of like Lot leaving Sodom. Just concentrate on building up the SSPX. Provide the Mass and provide schooling.

I find this hard to believe, but if true, SSPX will/does have full recognition. I wonder if FSSP priests will jump ship. Some might. Anyone have any more info on this?

Bishop Fellay spoke about this a couple weeks ago at his talk in Dillwyn, Va and seemed to at least state that this was a real possibility. It certainly seems credible that this is going to be the route that Rome and the SSPX takes.

+Fellay mentioned that Francis is not a "doctrine" guy but a "pastoral" guy. In his estimation this was a good thing in that Rome will "tolerate" the SSPX in the spirit of pastoral sensitivity.

Personally I find the heretics in Rome intolerable and their offer to tolerate Catholicism inside their Institution to be beneath contempt.

At this point, sadly, I think I agree.

Roland Deschain2 · May 03, 2014, 07:35:43 PM

Quote from: james03 on May 03, 2014, 07:08:37 PM
QuoteIt certainly seems credible that this is going to be the route that Rome and the SSPX takes.

What "route" would the SSPX take? It says they sign nothing, Rome just recognizes them. This is the part I am confused about. Doesn't seem likely.

"Route" meaning this is going to be how the two sides end up dealing with each other. Basically like to spouses who still live in the same house but don't speak to one another and try to avoid each other at all costs.

I heard it from Bishop Fellay at the conference and it seems to confirm what +Williamson is saying here so it seems very likely.

Larry · May 03, 2014, 07:43:42 PM

I just think it's a bad idea(this coming from a guy who thought a regularization would be a good thing a few years ago). The modernists in power aren't trustworthy. I'm afraid it's a trap(cue the Admiral Ackbar meme). Why now? They have to know that the majority of their parishioners would be against this, especially since Francis has shown himself to be outright hostile to Traditionalists.

Bl. Karl Hapsburg · May 03, 2014, 08:49:14 PM

I first heard about the SSPX and started attending masses last summer. At that time I knew little about the resistance and everything that was happening internally within the society. I have great respect for Bishop Williamson, his online videos were a great aid in my move to tradition. But I honestly cant figure out what him and the whole resistance movement is fighting, it seems like a lot of conspiracy nonsense and not grounded in hard facts. Is a different mass being said? Are the priests teaching a new catechism? I thought that the church was there solely for the aid of souls so that we can get to heaven. It appears that the SSPX is still doing that as it always has.

The Vatican 2 church is a train that's about ready to fall off a cliff and everyone is watching it happen. If Rome chooses to recognize the society I don't see what difference this makes other than bringing more people back into tradition.

Angelorum · May 03, 2014, 09:12:36 PM

Quote from: Bl. Karl Hapsburg on May 03, 2014, 08:49:14 PM
I first heard about the SSPX and started attending masses last summer. At that time I knew little about the resistance and everything that was happening internally within the society. I have great respect for Bishop Williamson, his online videos were a great aid in my move to tradition. But I honestly cant figure out what him and the whole resistance movement is fighting, it seems like a lot of conspiracy nonsense and not grounded in hard facts. Is a different mass being said? Are the priests teaching a new catechism? I thought that the church was there solely for the aid of souls so that we can get to heaven. It appears that the SSPX is still doing that as it always has.

The Vatican 2 church is a train that's about ready to fall off a cliff and everyone is watching it happen. If Rome chooses to recognize the society I don't see what difference this makes other than bringing more people back into tradition.

It is needless sectarianism at a time when unity and cohesion is vital.

ServusSpiritusSancti · May 03, 2014, 09:54:45 PM

edit

Maximilian · May 03, 2014, 10:20:14 PM

Quote from: Bl. Karl Hapsburg on May 03, 2014, 08:49:14 PM

I have great respect for Bishop Williamson, his online videos were a great aid in my move to tradition. But I honestly cant figure out what him and the whole resistance movement is fighting, it seems like a lot of conspiracy nonsense and not grounded in hard facts. Is a different mass being said? Are the priests teaching a new catechism? I thought that the church was there solely for the aid of souls so that we can get to heaven. It appears that the SSPX is still doing that as it always has.

If Rome chooses to recognize the society I don't see what difference this makes other than bringing more people back into tradition.

Not a great start for your first post. It's okay to be ignorant, just don't try to make a virtue out of it. "You don't know," "you can't see," "you can't figure out" ... fine, it's okay to be clueless. You can learn a lot by spending time here. But not if you start by attacking people when you admit that you don't even know that the issues are.

If you're not just blowing smoke when you say you "have great respect for Bishop Williamson," then start by demonstrating that respect by not attacking him based solely on your lack of knowledge and understanding. That's a pretty good rule of thumb for dealing with everyone, but since Bishop Williamson is one of the small handful of traditional Catholic bishops available in the world, then there are a great many more reasons why it makes sense to demonstrate common sense and prudence and decency by not starting out with baseless accusations of "conspiracy nonsense."