Priest in Mortal Sin

[Non Nobis]

Just read an EWTN article a priest in mortal sin can say Mass for grave reasons. 

https://www.ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur68.htm

It says the priest must desire to go to confession:

a priest who has fallen into mortal sin, but who is unable to make his confession despite his desire to do so, may celebrate Mass for the benefit of the faithful without adding a further sin of sacrilege.

If he has no desire to go to confession, I assume HE would commit a sacrilege by celebrating Mass (or hearing confession), but this would NOT affect the faithful (the sacrament would still be valid).  No reason for us to worry, it would be between God and the priest.

[christulsa]

Just read an EWTN article a priest in mortal sin can say Mass for grave reasons. 

https://www.ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur68.htm

It says the priest must desire to go to confession:

a priest who has fallen into mortal sin, but who is unable to make his confession despite his desire to do so, may celebrate Mass for the benefit of the faithful without adding a further sin of sacrilege.

If he has no desire to go to confession, I assume HE would commit a sacrilege by celebrating Mass (or hearing confession), but this would NOT affect the faithful (the sacrament would still be valid).  No reason for us to worry, it would be between God and the priest.

I've heard before a priest in mortal sin, if they can't make it first to confession, can celebrate Mass--and so consume communion at that Mass.  I've always understood it to be an absolute requirement for the laity to confess first if you're aware of mortal sins.  It partly makes sense why the priest would go ahead with Mass, since not saying Mass could cause scandal and people need the Mass, but it still makes me wonder how that would not be sacrilege.  Without going to confession first, he can't be confident he isn't in a state of mortal sin.  

[Kaesekopf]

How would a priest not saying mass due to mortal sin be a cause of scandal?

Some of you have weird definitions of scandal.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[christulsa]

How would a priest not saying mass due to mortal sin be a cause of scandal?

Some of you have weird definitions of scandal.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

It's what the priest was saying in the article.

"A second grave reason stems from the danger of infamy by publicly revealing the state of one's soul.

This can occur in the case of a priest in isolated circumstances when there is no one else to perform the usual celebrations. There is no need for him to do anything that might lead people to suspect his lack of a state of grace." - Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University. 

https://www.ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur68.htm

[MundaCorMeum]

How would a priest not saying mass due to mortal sin be a cause of scandal?

Some of you have weird definitions of scandal.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

It's what the priest was saying in the article.

"A second grave reason stems from the danger of infamy by publicly revealing the state of one's soul.

This can occur in the case of a priest in isolated circumstances when there is no one else to perform the usual celebrations. There is no need for him to do anything that might lead people to suspect his lack of a state of grace." - Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University. 

https://www.ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur68.htm

That's not scandal, though, is it?  Scandal is whrn your behavior leads another to sin.  Being known for bad behavior, or others knowing you are not in a state of grace doesn't mean they are sinning

[christulsa]

How would a priest not saying mass due to mortal sin be a cause of scandal?

Some of you have weird definitions of scandal.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

It's what the priest was saying in the article.

"A second grave reason stems from the danger of infamy by publicly revealing the state of one's soul.

This can occur in the case of a priest in isolated circumstances when there is no one else to perform the usual celebrations. There is no need for him to do anything that might lead people to suspect his lack of a state of grace." - Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University. 

https://www.ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur68.htm

That's not scandal, though, is it?  Scandal is whrn your behavior leads another to sin.  Being known for bad behavior, or others knowing you are not in a state of grace doesn't mean they are sinning

Not sure. I thought scandal can be used in that way too, in the sense of a situation that can cause people to gossip.   "Danger of infamy" used in the article seems more clear.

[MundaCorMeum]

How would a priest not saying mass due to mortal sin be a cause of scandal?

Some of you have weird definitions of scandal.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

It's what the priest was saying in the article.

"A second grave reason stems from the danger of infamy by publicly revealing the state of one's soul.

This can occur in the case of a priest in isolated circumstances when there is no one else to perform the usual celebrations. There is no need for him to do anything that might lead people to suspect his lack of a state of grace." - Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University. 

https://www.ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur68.htm

That's not scandal, though, is it?  Scandal is whrn your behavior leads another to sin.  Being known for bad behavior, or others knowing you are not in a state of grace doesn't mean they are sinning

Not sure. I thought scandal can be used in that way too, in the sense of a situation that can cause people to gossip.   "Danger of infamy" used in the article seems more clear.

Infamy means being well known for bad behavior, which obviously should not be the case for a priest, of all people.  But, I guess I just see it from a different perspective than the article.  Seeing a priest go to confession wouldn't make me think a priest is in a habit of committing bad behavior.  It would make me think he is striving for holiness, and would actually be a good example in my eyes.  While only annual comfession is required, the church highly recommends frequent confession.  So, for me, seeing a priest frequent confession tells me he is going above and beyond what is actually required for holiness.  Plus, the church teaches that frequent confession lessons our likelihood of committing habitual mortal sin.  Besides, if seeing someone go to confession is scandalous, then we would all be required to go to confession without anyone ever seeing us.  I'm sure you probably know all that....that is just my take on the matter; for the sake of discussion 

[christulsa]

How would a priest not saying mass due to mortal sin be a cause of scandal?

Some of you have weird definitions of scandal.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

It's what the priest was saying in the article.

"A second grave reason stems from the danger of infamy by publicly revealing the state of one's soul.

This can occur in the case of a priest in isolated circumstances when there is no one else to perform the usual celebrations. There is no need for him to do anything that might lead people to suspect his lack of a state of grace." - Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University. 

https://www.ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur68.htm

That's not scandal, though, is it?  Scandal is whrn your behavior leads another to sin.  Being known for bad behavior, or others knowing you are not in a state of grace doesn't mean they are sinning

Not sure. I thought scandal can be used in that way too, in the sense of a situation that can cause people to gossip.   "Danger of infamy" used in the article seems more clear.

Infamy means being well known for bad behavior, which obviously should not be the case for a priest, of all people.  But, I guess I just see it from a different perspective than the article.  Seeing a priest go to confession wouldn't make me think a priest is in a habit of committing bad behavior.  It would make me think he is striving for holiness, and would actually be a good example in my eyes.  While only annual comfession is required, the church highly recommends frequent confession.  So, for me, seeing a priest frequent confession tells me he is going above and beyond what is actually required for holiness.  Plus, the church teaches that frequent confession lessons our likelihood of committing habitual mortal sin.  Besides, if seeing someone go to confession is scandalous, then we would all be required to go to confession without anyone ever seeing us.  I'm sure you probably know all that....that is just my take on the matter; for the sake of discussion 

I was wondering about the idea of priests who say Mass in a state of mortal sin, not about them going to confession.

[Irishcyclist]

A tangential question : is a the Mass said by a priest who's soul is in a state of mortal sin, valid?

Obviously the congregation at Mass are none the wiser as to the mortal state of the priest's soul but the priest himself is. How can he receive the divine grace accruing from the Mass he is offering. Presumably he can't, but does this mean that no divine grace can be accrued by the congregation as a result?

Great advice earlier from Miriam about praying for your fellow penitents.

I'd suggest too praying for the souls in purgatory. Even one prayer will help liberate at least one soul from purgatory to heaven and that soul will be forever grateful to you for that great gift that they will pray for you as a result!

[Miriam_M]

Regarding scandal:

I am edified both by observing (which I agree is rare) a priest or any religious or ordained man in a confession line, and by their references to their own confessions (generally, not specifically!).  An example would be the recent posts on Canon Tallarico "looking for a confessor" and other priests, including mine, referring in general to their confessions, regular need for availing themselves of the sacrament, etc.

It is an act of humility on the part of the priest for him to be seen doing that or heard discussing it.  That should not scandalize us but inspire us and get us to reflect more on mankind's universal need of mercy.  I think such a priest is doing quite the opposite of scandal; he is setting a good example.

[christulsa]

A tangential question : is a the Mass said by a priest who's soul is in a state of mortal sin, valid?

Obviously the congregation at Mass are none the wiser as to the mortal state of the priest's soul but the priest himself is. How can he receive the divine grace accruing from the Mass he is offering. Presumably he can't, but does this mean that no divine grace can be accrued by the congregation as a result?

Great advice earlier from Miriam about praying for your fellow penitents.

I'd suggest too praying for the souls in purgatory. Even one prayer will help liberate at least one soul from purgatory to heaven and that soul will be forever grateful to you for that great gift that they will pray for you as a result!

My understanding is--and the EWTN article goes into this--in general we presume that a Mass, or any sacrament, is valid as long as the priest uses the proper form and matter (+ intention), even if he is in mortal sin.  I think there was a heresy where people believed the grace of the sacrament depended on the character of the priest.  Maybe it was Jansenism? 

[Miriam_M]

My understanding is--and the EWTN article goes into this--in general we presume that a Mass, or any sacrament, is valid as long as the priest uses the proper form and matter (+ intention), even if he is in mortal sin.  I think there was a heresy where people believed the grace of the sacrament depended on the character of the priest.  Maybe it was Jansenism?

Yes, the grace of the sacrament is intrinsic to it and its power is only qualified by the state/disposition/intention of the one receiving the sacrament.  Sacramental effectiveness is not jeopardized by the state of grace of the one administering the sacrament, as he is only the administrator of it.  The author of the action of the sacrament is the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, who is the source (obviously) of the divine life shared with the recipient.

Ex opere operato.  It's a dogma of the Church.

(It was Donatism, christulsa.)

[Non Nobis]

How would a priest not saying mass due to mortal sin be a cause of scandal?

Some of you have weird definitions of scandal.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

It's what the priest was saying in the article.

"A second grave reason stems from the danger of infamy by publicly revealing the state of one's soul.

This can occur in the case of a priest in isolated circumstances when there is no one else to perform the usual celebrations. There is no need for him to do anything that might lead people to suspect his lack of a state of grace." - Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University. 

https://www.ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur68.htm

That's not scandal, though, is it?  Scandal is whrn your behavior leads another to sin.  Being known for bad behavior, or others knowing you are not in a state of grace doesn't mean they are sinning

Not sure. I thought scandal can be used in that way too, in the sense of a situation that can cause people to gossip.   "Danger of infamy" used in the article seems more clear.

If someone with bad will saw a priest not saying Mass or not hearing others' confession he might think "the priest must be sinning mortally... hmm, if HE can do it, then why can't I"... or "priests aren't so holy after all".  I.e. it might lead to sin, even worse sin than gossip, and so be scandal. It would be like giving your child cause to suspect you of mortal  sin.

A priest GOING to confession is certainly not scandal, but rather setting a good example, as Miriam_M says.

...
I've heard before a priest in mortal sin, if they can't make it first to confession, can celebrate Mass--and so consume communion at that Mass. 

My understanding, revising your first line, is that priests..."if they can't make it first to confession BUT DO HAVE REAL DESIRE TO CONFESS, can celebrate Mass...".

Or taking it directly from the EWTN article again, adding emphasis:

, a priest who has fallen into mortal sin, but who is unable to make his confession despite his desire to do so, may celebrate Mass for the benefit of the faithful without adding a further sin of sacrilege.

I don't know, but if there is no desire then it seems that there WOULD be a sacrilege  (I am not sure about this) but the Mass or Confession would STILL be VALID (I am sure of this).

[Kaesekopf]

How would a priest not saying mass due to mortal sin be a cause of scandal?

Some of you have weird definitions of scandal.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

It's what the priest was saying in the article.

"A second grave reason stems from the danger of infamy by publicly revealing the state of one's soul.

This can occur in the case of a priest in isolated circumstances when there is no one else to perform the usual celebrations. There is no need for him to do anything that might lead people to suspect his lack of a state of grace." - Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University. 

https://www.ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur68.htm

Gotcha.  That makes sense.  I did not consider situations where there aren't priests nearby.  (City boy!)

[Lynne]

A tangential question : is a the Mass said by a priest who's soul is in a state of mortal sin, valid?

Obviously the congregation at Mass are none the wiser as to the mortal state of the priest's soul but the priest himself is. How can he receive the divine grace accruing from the Mass he is offering. Presumably he can't, but does this mean that no divine grace can be accrued by the congregation as a result?

Great advice earlier from Miriam about praying for your fellow penitents.

I'd suggest too praying for the souls in purgatory. Even one prayer will help liberate at least one soul from purgatory to heaven and that soul will be forever grateful to you for that great gift that they will pray for you as a result!

Donatism made the assumption that Christian clergy are required to be faultless for their ministrations to be effective and for the prayers and sacraments they conduct to be valid.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donatism

An early Christian heresy condemned by Pope Miltiades.