Author Topic: Proofs of God  (Read 178 times)

Offline henchris

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Proofs of God
« on: April 08, 2017, 02:36:49 PM »
Dear people,

I feel my faith wavering. Sometimes it is really strong and I feel the presense of our Lord. At other times it feels like I am a complete atheďst. I was wondering if you could reccommend me some books or texts that could help me through the dark times when my mind is only rational. So rational works "proving" the existence of God.
In de naam van de Vader, de Zoon en de Heilige Geest, amen
 

Offline Hat And Beard

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Re: Proofs of God
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2017, 03:20:51 PM »
As a mathematician, I have never come across what I would consider a legitimate 'proof' of the existence of God. I've seen people attempt them, but they normally still require an element of faith or the resolution of a paradox in a way that isn't necessarily rational.

I think what you really need is prayer, the only thing that can help you feel God's presence. That's why monks pray all the time- to take them away from a world that can feel godless(I think it was St. Benedict that said this/acted on it).
 
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Offline Kaesekopf

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Re: Proofs of God
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2017, 04:11:41 PM »
You can go study Aquinas?

Feser's book on Aquinas is good.
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Offline martin88nyc

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Re: Proofs of God
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2017, 04:15:28 PM »
If you really feel His presence then how could you feel like an atheist. Perhaps it's just a  temptation or spiritual lethargy. I often experience spiritual sluggishness and most of the time do nothing about it. I should certainly pray more but with fog in my brain it is really difficult. I know I am a miserable catholic, I should try better.
 However I could only assure you that God is real as day and night, even more so because he is the origin of everything. I've experienced so many little miracles in my life that even if I try hard to become an atheist I could never succeed. Not even once has God left me without signal graces, not even once. He makes Himself known and present especially when I become disinterested or negligent. May God illuminate your mind my friend. best of luck man.
"These things I have spoken to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you shall have distress: but have confidence, I have overcome the world." John 16:33
 

Offline Daniel

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Re: Proofs of God
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2017, 10:27:23 AM »
I'll first point out, you're placing too much importance on your feelings. The reality is, if you have the faith then you have the faith, even if you feel like a complete atheist.
Secondly, be careful to avoid falling into rationalism. The existence of God can be proven through reason alone. But most other dogmas cannot.

As for writings, I'll second what Kaesekopf said: read up on Aquinas's five proofs. (I haven't yet read Feser's book though.)

Another interesting proof is Pascal's wager. (It doesn't prove that God exists, but what it does prove is that even if God's existence were unknowable then it would still be a good idea to be Catholic.)

I also know that Gödel had a proof for God's existence, but I do not recommend that one. Perhaps I just don't understand his argument, but much of what he's doing just doesn't seem to make sense. And it relies on modal logic (the modern idea of things possibly occurring in multiple "possible worlds") which I say is complete nonsense, or, at least a bad way to approach this problem.

As a mathematician, I have never come across what I would consider a legitimate 'proof' of the existence of God. I've seen people attempt them, but they normally still require an element of faith or the resolution of a paradox in a way that isn't necessarily rational.
I think Aquinas's proofs are as good as you can get. They do require that you accept the axioms. But doesn't every proof do that to some extent? I mean, you can't even rationally prove that 1 + 1 = 2 without first accepting that addition is a valid mathematical operation that follows a strict set of rules, that equality is also a valid operation that follows a different set of rules, that each number has its own objective value, etc.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 10:30:00 AM by Daniel »
 

Offline An aspiring Thomist

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Re: Proofs of God
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2017, 07:19:59 PM »
I would recommend reading the first part of the Summa and St. Thomas' five proofs. They are irrefutable IF properly understood. Here is a little primer:
 http://www.thesumma.info/reality/reality8.php
 

Offline Habitual_Ritual

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Re: Proofs of God
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2017, 08:01:46 PM »
Evidence for God by Dembski. 50 essays from different areas of science and philosophy

  Revolt Against Reason by Arnold Lunn
" There exists now an enormous religious ignorance. In the times since the Council it is evident we have failed to pass on the content of the Faith.”

(Pope Benedict XVI speaking in October 2002.)