Justice and Mercy

Started by james03, April 02, 2017, 05:33:14 PM

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james03

I have long held that a major problem in current "catholic" social teaching is that people don't understand the difference between Justice and Mercy.  Furthermore, Justice is a Cardinal Virtue that we must not offend.  So for example we have the term "Social Justice".  Taken literally, this would mean handicapped people starve to death.  The correct term would be "Social Mercy", but leftists don't like the fact that the choice is left to the granter of Mercy, which causes psychological pain in their insecure psyche's.

I've refined it even more.  What is being proposed in many cases is Mercy at the cost of an injustice.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

Carleendiane

Great point you have here James. Often, these words are used improperly. Only because Mercy is from a higher source which must not be referrenced. Justice, well that is a matter for our man courts. Mercy is more a matter of the heart and generosity of those who wish to bestow it, but the source of all Mercy is God.
To board the struggle bus: no whining, board with a smile, a fake one will be found out and put off at next stop, no maps, no directions, going only one way, one destination. Follow all rules and you will arrive. Drop off at pearly gate. Bring nothing.

clau clau

That reminds me of a Priest who once said to my brother "The justice of God is mercy".

My brother objected.   But Father, "The justice of God is justice, the mercy of God is mercy".  Father would not have it though.

That Priest is dead now so I suppose he knows the truth ...
Father time has an undefeated record.

But when he's dumb and no more here,
Nineteen hundred years or near,
Clau-Clau-Claudius shall speak clear.
(https://completeandunabridged.blogspot.com/2009/06/i-claudius.html)

Non Nobis

Although the application of mercy (the particular choice of who and what) is left to the grantor, remember that mercy is not optional in general (like alms-giving; it is optional here and now, but required through life).

St. Thomas says:

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3030.htm

Quoteof all the virtues which relate to our neighbor, mercy is the greatest, even as its act surpasses all others, since it belongs to one who is higher and better to supply the defect of another, in so far as the latter is deficient.

QuoteThe sum total of the Christian religion consists in mercy, as regards external works: but the inward love of charity, whereby we are united to God preponderates over both love and mercy for our neighbor.

and also (emphasizing that justice must be safeguarded when mercy is applied):

QuoteHence Augustine says (De Civ. Dei ix, 5) that "this movement of the mind" (viz. mercy) "obeys the reason, when mercy is vouchsafed in such a way that justice is safeguarded, whether we give to the needy or forgive the repentant." And since it is essential to human virtue that the movements of the soul should be regulated by reason, as was shown above (I-II:59:4 and I-II:59:5), it follows that mercy is a virtue.

It would be a further argument to say that the individual is required to be merciful, but not the state.

In literature, I always think of inspector Javert in Les Miserables as a good example of one who loved justice without mercy, and he was a representative of the state.  Mercy does look at the individual people, the degree of their guilt, their excuses, and their needs.
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Jesus, Mary, I love Thee! Save souls!

Chestertonian

God doesn't owe us anything though.  He doesn't have to be merciful to us
"I am not much of a Crusader, that is for sure, but at least I am not a Mohamedist!"

Non Nobis

Quote from: Chestertonian on April 03, 2017, 01:23:11 PM
God doesn't owe us anything though.  He doesn't have to be merciful to us

Christ died for us, in effect PROMISING us mercy even though He didn't OWE it. Mercy does not mean ignoring our sin, but forgiving it if we go to Him.
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Jesus, Mary, I love Thee! Save souls!

james03

QuoteIt would be a further argument to say that the individual is required to be merciful, but not the state.
If it were required (how?), then it would no longer be mercy.

Of course, there are consequences.  If you want to live solely by Justice, then you are living under the Law, and you will be judged under the Law in Justice.  Not a good plan, but you are free to try if you want.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

james03

QuoteChrist died for us, in effect PROMISING us mercy even though He didn't OWE it. Mercy does not mean ignoring our sin, but forgiving it if we go to Him.

Our Faith in Christ is Justice.  You can't read Romans unless you accept that.  That in a nutshell is the New Covenant.  Christ did not promise everyone Mercy, only those Justified through Faith in Him.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

Heinrich

Quote from: james03 on April 08, 2017, 11:27:41 PM
QuoteIt would be a further argument to say that the individual is required to be merciful, but not the state.
If it were required (how?), then it would no longer be mercy.

Of course, there are consequences.  If you want to live solely by Justice, then you are living under the Law, and you will be judged under the Law in Justice.  Not a good plan, but you are free to try if you want.

Many a Communist wish they hadn't.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

james03

Yeah, just remember the butchery of tens of millions.  It's even worse, they had no mercy nor justice.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

Bernadette

Quote from: Chestertonian on April 03, 2017, 01:23:11 PM
God doesn't owe us anything though.  He doesn't have to be merciful to us
And yet: He is, anyway. He's really something, isn't He?  :) God's mercy is perfectly just, and his justice is perfectly merciful. It's a paradox, but there you have it. We're not really meant to understand it perfectly, this side of Heaven.

Still praying for you and your family, James.  :pray3:
My Lord and my God.

james03

QuoteGod's mercy is perfectly just, and his justice is perfectly merciful. It's a paradox, but there you have it.

I don't know if it is a paradox, perhaps.  The Passion of Christ is Mercy AND Justice.  I can see Justice with zero Mercy, but I do not accept the existence of any Mercy that is unjust.  For the simple reason that just because you are OWED doesn't put any obligation on you to collect.  And just because you are under no obligation to PAY, doesn't make it an offense against Justice if you decide to pay.  Buried in here is the bedrock premise of private property and true Catholic social teaching.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

Quaremerepulisti

Quote from: Chestertonian on April 03, 2017, 01:23:11 PM
God doesn't owe us anything though.  He doesn't have to be merciful to us

This, Chestertonian, sums up in a nutshell all the difficulties you have been having, as you have been stating in your various posts.  While the two statements are correct as they stand, the implication is false.  God doesn't act as He does out of obligation (such would be contrary to His nature), and thus it is true God doesn't "owe" any creature anything strictly speaking.  However, while it is true His mercy is not something owed to us, it is nevertheless impossible for Him to do otherwise, for He is Mercy itself by nature.  Thus, despite the fact we can make no claim on God, we can and should have absolute confidence in His Mercy.


james03

The missing piece is Charity. 
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

Nazianzen

Quote from: james03 on April 02, 2017, 05:33:14 PM
I have long held that a major problem in current "catholic" social teaching is that people don't understand the difference between Justice and Mercy.  Furthermore, Justice is a Cardinal Virtue that we must not offend.  So for example we have the term "Social Justice".  Taken literally, this would mean handicapped people starve to death.  The correct term would be "Social Mercy", but leftists don't like the fact that the choice is left to the granter of Mercy, which causes psychological pain in their insecure psyche's.

I've refined it even more.  What is being proposed in many cases is Mercy at the cost of an injustice.

God provided an abundance of goods, sufficient for all.  All men have a right to a sufficiency.  It is unjust if they lack that sufficiency.  Hence, social justice.

The fact that the left has expropriated this term and perverted it to support Communism is beside the point.  It's still justice, not mercy, that is in view when speaking of these things.  See Leo XIII for the sound doctrine.

Almsgiving is a private initiative which may (and often is) replacing what ought to have been provided in strict justice by others.  But again, that's  beside the point - it's still charity.