Teaching children about the passion / lent

[Chestertonian]

i saw someonemention the play dough thing with the toothpicks thing on a wbsite somewhere and was thinkng about it for my son.  someone mentioned it on another thread

buat i also worry about it being i dont know....a little manipulative?  I dont want him to have anxiety that if he doesnt do enough good works Jesus will suffer. 

children are by nature egocentric beings.  That is just where they are developmentally, particularly children under the age of 7 or 8.  Ithink i would worry that the child would perceive that  the very fundamental nature of Our Lord's disposition hinges on their actions


I have talked to people who grew up in the catholic church and were told as children that every sin they commit is like another scourge that Jesus suffered at the pillar, or another thorn in the crown of thorns.  Perhaps this was told to inspire that child to not sin.  and this was something they found to be very upsetting to hear as a child and something that pushed them to eventually turn their back on the faith.

in a sense, yes, our sins do wound Our Lord, it is only because of our sins (collectively and individually) that Jesus died on the cross.  It is our sins that caused His death.  But I also worry about overemphasizing the relationship between our positive/negative actions and the actual events of the passion.  Children are so literal, I could see my son actually believing that one of his sins is literally another thorn in Christ's crown, and then freaking out every time he did something sinful.  he has a very similar temperament to me

I don't know what it's like to hear the faith preached to you as a child.  The Tanakh does contain its own share of disturbing passages (God slaying the firstborn sons of the Egyptians, God commanding the slaughter of Isaac, the biblical patriarchs having multiple wives and concubines) but I did not grow up with any sort of fear of Hell.  I feared a lot of things....dying, I feared the earth being wiped out by an asteroid, another holocaust. 

as catholic parents,we go through the stations of the cross with our kids, and do the sorrowsful mysteries and other ways of teaching them to meditate on Our Lord's passion, we teach them that hell is real, and people go there.  Fear of hell has kept countless souls from jumping off a bridge or doing something equally disastrous to their spiritual lives.  At the same time, I dont want  him to develop a neurotic preoccupation with hell or a scrupulous conscience. 

i would be interested to hear the perspective of those who grew up Catholic and with this mindset and how they perceived the message of Hell, or the idea that our sins directly wound Our Lord or that our good works and prayers directly console Him

[Bernadette]

IKR? That's why I would be more comfortable with the idea of removing "thorns" as a reward for good works, rather than emphasizing the connection between sin and Christ's suffering too young. When St. Therese was being prepared for her first confession, her sister told her that the tears of the Child Jesus would wash away her sins when the priest gave her absolution. Theologically incorrect, but less traumatic than emphasizing the Passion itself to a child as young (and sensitive) as St. Therese.

Edit: But I would keep in mind, too, that these kinds of "illustrations" (like with the dough and toothpicks) probably aren't meant to be taken literally. They probably help children to grasp the main point that our good actions please God, and sin displeases Him. And Jesus suffered and died for all the sins of mankind, so I don't think it would be stretching the point to say that our sins contributed to His suffering.  But yeah, actually putting a toothpick into the dough...very uncomfortable. 

[MundaCorMeum]

I think y'all may be over-analyzing here.  I mean, if an activity sounds unappealing to you, or seems like it would not be spiritually beneficial to your child....don't use it.  It's not required.  Simple as that.

It works for us.  The kids really like it and look forward to it.  They talk about it in a positive way all year long.  My ten year old told me last week that he can't wait for Lent to start, because it's is favorite season of the year.  My six year old told me that Holy Thursday and Holy Saturday are his to favorite feast days of the year.   The crown of thorns activity has sparked some really fruitful family discussions.  so, we continue to use it.  I'm not at all concerned that it will psychologically damage my children.

Putting thorns back in....the kids actually suggested it last year.  We decided to try it, but gave up on it.  It was too much to keep up with, and I didn't find it very effective.  It made the activity too complicated.  We stick to just focusing on God's mercy, and finding ways to please our Lord with our acts of kindness and sacrifices.

If you start explaining sin and its effects with your children from a young age, at a level that they can understand, and then gradually go deeper as they get older, I think it helps them come to a proper understanding of it.  If you wait to talk about sin until much later, then I think it is something that they would be much more uncomfortable with and resistant to,  because it's so unfamiliar.

[Bernadette]

I think y'all may be over-analyzing here.  I mean, if an activity sounds unappealing to you, or seems like it would not be spiritually beneficial to your child....don't use it.  It's not required.  Simple as that.

It works for us.  The kids really like it and look forward to it.  They talk about it in a positive way all year long.  My ten year old told me last week that he can't wait for Lent to start, because it's is favorite season of the year.  My six year old told me that Holy Thursday and Holy Saturday are his to favorite feast days of the year.   The crown of thorns activity has sparked some really fruitful family discussions.  so, we continue to use it.  I'm not at all concerned that it will psychologically damage my children.

Putting thorns back in....the kids actually suggested it last year.  We decided to try it, but gave up on it.  It was too much to keep up with, and I didn't find it very effective.  It made the activity too complicated.  We stick to just focusing on God's mercy, and finding ways to please our Lord with our acts of kindness and sacrifices.

If you start explaining sin and its effects with your children from a young age, at a level that they can understand, and then gradually go deeper as they get older, I think it helps them come to a proper understanding of it.  If you wait to talk about sin until much later, then I think it is something that they would be much more uncomfortable with and resistant to,  because it's so unfamiliar.

This is a topic that I've been thinking about a lot lately, and trying to understand, so forgive me if I ramble too much here. And no, potential naysayers, I don't have children, so if that's an issue please feel free to completely disregard the following. I'll put it in spoiler tags, to make it easier for you to skip this post if you're so inclined. Kthnx. 

[spoiler]I guess because I was such an over-thinking kid, and didn't feel able to communicate my thoughts to my parents in a way that wouldn't make them angry, I'm more fearful of introducing concepts to (my hypothetical) children that might confuse or frighten them. I don't know if they'd actually feel comfortable coming to me for explanations/reassurance. I'd want them to, of course, and do everything in my power to help them understand that it was okay, but who knows if that would actually result in the desired level of confidence? I'm actually really confident and comfortable with talking to my aunt (and formerly, my uncle as well) about anything that was/is bothering me, because they always made it clear that it was okay, and never gave me the impression of "shutting me down" if I ever did have questions or concerns. So I guess it's not enough to tell children "it's okay to ask questions" if you're not actually willing to make it okay to ask questions via your reaction/behavior. It's not reasonable to expect children to "just know": it makes more sense to show them and be sure that they know. And I think that personal perception is the key, (this goes back to the thread about "acceptable" punishments for children and, to a degree, spouses, although I'll admit that that idea is so foreign to me that I have trouble feeling intellectually okay with it). It's not a matter of "that's an inappropriate topic!" and that's that: there's no guarantee that the child will understand why it's inappropriate, and not translate that in his own head to: "Hey, mom/dad might get angry if I ask them about this. Better not take the chance." More explanation is definitely better than none, even if it seems like overkill. I recently posted a quote that really made an impression on me some years ago: "Never assume that you know what someone else is thinking," and I think the opposite is also true: "Never assume that the person you're trying to communicate with has understood what you're actually trying to say: make sure." I've misinterpreted/misunderstood so many points that other people have tried to make, and been so miserable in my mind because of it, that I'm definitely aware of the damage that these misunderstandings can do to relationships, especially relationships that require a lot of trust. So now I try to "translate" what the other person says into language that makes sense to me, and ask for clarification and confirmation that my understanding is correct. This takes time, obviously, and probably makes me seem dull-witted ("Seriously? I'm not speaking a foreign language here, why can't you understand what I'm saying by now?!" But to me, it genuinely is like a foreign language, because it's not "my" language.  ), but I think the effort is necessary in order to maintain peace via effective communication. I have to find things to relate the concepts to in my own life and experience, in order to understand the concepts; I actually think that's why a lot of online sermons are so confusing to me, because there's no way for me to ask the speaker for clarification.  People communicate so differently, and everyone naturally wants to assume that his points have been clearly and effectively communicated to his audience. [/spoiler]

Anyway, hope y'all enjoyed that little stream-of-consciousness "treatise." 

[MundaCorMeum]

I'm responding to your post, B, without quoting, for the sake of trimming posts....


I understand what you are saying.  It does make sense.  I have a lot of thoughts on the topic, but I need some time to group and organize my opinions before properly responding 

[JubilateDeo]

So, my daughter's teacher did this as an activity for religion class on Ash Wednesday so we have the crown of thorns at home.  Not gonna lie, it's pretty great to be able to say "Hey, if you do ______ that's a toothpick!"  So far, she has washed a sink full of dishes, played with her sister (which she didn't want to do) and helped me clean the fridge. 

[Bernadette]

So, my daughter's teacher did this as an activity for religion class on Ash Wednesday so we have the crown of thorns at home.  Not gonna lie, it's pretty great to be able to say "Hey, if you do ______ that's a toothpick!"  So far, she has washed a sink full of dishes, played with her sister (which she didn't want to do) and helped me clean the fridge.

I could see this being applicable to all kinds of Liturgical cycles: making a crown to put on a statue of the Blessed Virgin for a particular feast day, with some of those glue-on jewels, for example. Every good deed or sacrifice, earns a jewel to make Our Lady's crown that much more magnificent. And the one during Advent that I've heard of more than once, with the little manger and "straw."

[Chestertonian]

I guess I would worry that the child would do the choresbecause I want them to not out of love of God

Like a sticker chart or class dojo but religious

[Bernadette]

I guess I would worry that the child would do the choresbecause I want them to not out of love of God

Like a sticker chart or class dojo but religious

I think that love of God would probably come later, if it came at all. Moving up the "hierarchy of motives," if you will. Obedience out of a motive other than love, while not perfect, isn't bad in itself.

Plus, this practice helps to make good actions attractive to children, so that (hopefully) they won't have as much resistance to them later. Builds a good foundation, and prepares the soil for later cultivation. 

[JubilateDeo]

I guess I would worry that the child would do the choresbecause I want them to not out of love of God

Like a sticker chart or class dojo but religious

It's not like they *have* to do it or anything.  We do talk about doing it to show Jesus you love Him

[ABlaine]

i saw someonemention the play dough thing with the toothpicks thing on a wbsite somewhere and was thinkng about it for my son.  someone mentioned it on another thread

buat i also worry about it being i dont know....a little manipulative?  I dont want him to have anxiety that if he doesnt do enough good works Jesus will suffer. 

children are by nature egocentric beings.  That is just where they are developmentally, particularly children under the age of 7 or 8.  Ithink i would worry that the child would perceive that  the very fundamental nature of Our Lord's disposition hinges on their actions


I have talked to people who grew up in the catholic church and were told as children that every sin they commit is like another scourge that Jesus suffered at the pillar, or another thorn in the crown of thorns.  Perhaps this was told to inspire that child to not sin.  and this was something they found to be very upsetting to hear as a child and something that pushed them to eventually turn their back on the faith.

in a sense, yes, our sins do wound Our Lord, it is only because of our sins (collectively and individually) that Jesus died on the cross.  It is our sins that caused His death.  But I also worry about overemphasizing the relationship between our positive/negative actions and the actual events of the passion.  Children are so literal, I could see my son actually believing that one of his sins is literally another thorn in Christ's crown, and then freaking out every time he did something sinful.  he has a very similar temperament to me

I don't know what it's like to hear the faith preached to you as a child.  The Tanakh does contain its own share of disturbing passages (God slaying the firstborn sons of the Egyptians, God commanding the slaughter of Isaac, the biblical patriarchs having multiple wives and concubines) but I did not grow up with any sort of fear of Hell.  I feared a lot of things....dying, I feared the earth being wiped out by an asteroid, another holocaust. 

as catholic parents,we go through the stations of the cross with our kids, and do the sorrowsful mysteries and other ways of teaching them to meditate on Our Lord's passion, we teach them that hell is real, and people go there.  Fear of hell has kept countless souls from jumping off a bridge or doing something equally disastrous to their spiritual lives.  At the same time, I dont want  him to develop a neurotic preoccupation with hell or a scrupulous conscience. 

i would be interested to hear the perspective of those who grew up Catholic and with this mindset and how they perceived the message of Hell, or the idea that our sins directly wound Our Lord or that our good works and prayers directly console Him

These are important things to think about especially the emphasized part. This is more or less exactly what happened to me. After being taught of the concept of hell in religion class in elementary school (the concept had hitherto remained nebulous to me and was more of a word I knew I shouldn't say than anything else). Being taught about hell was absolutely not good for me. I don't know if it could have been taught better, or juxtaposed with God's infinite love or something like that; maybe it was and I ignored it.

For me the worst part was the concept of sins of thought + hell. It must have been fascinating for my mother because for like 6 months I told her every. single. thing. that I did that could possibly be construed as bad, including things I thought. But since I was like 7 and I felt like I was walking over an eternity of pain and suffering separated by the thinnest ice that could break with the smallest since... well you can imagine I liked to hear that the fact I stole a lego from my brother was not going to damn me for eternity.

In the end it was far too much for me to bear and I ended up becoming mildly OCD in that I created little prayer/rituals that made sure I wasn't going  to burn forever. It was an extraordinarily palpable weight. However this went away after a year or so. But it really was a dark time for me and burned away what had up until then been a very pure and emotional attachment to God. Honestly, this is probably where the groundwork was laid for my apostasy as a teenager.

There was one benefit from all this, however. My first confession was probably one of the most memorable moments of my childhood. My reaction was well beyond feeling spiritually cleansed, rather it was like a physical unburdening. I felt like I was going to float away when I left the church.

Anyway, try not to do that to your kid. It was very stressful and made me miserable for a while. After me, my mother was very careful to teach my siblings a more balanced and, well, child-friendly version of hell and how sin works.

[Bernadette]

Anyway, try not to do that to your kid. It was very stressful and made me miserable for a while. After me, my mother was very careful to teach my siblings a more balanced and, well, child-friendly version of hell and how sin works.

You had the great misfortune of being the "first waffle." 

There was one benefit from all this, however. My first confession was probably one of the most memorable moments of my childhood. My reaction was well beyond feeling spiritually cleansed, rather it was like a physical unburdening. I felt like I was going to float away when I left the church.

What a great example of God bringing good out of a bad situation.

[Bernadette]

So I've been thinking about how one would go about teaching a child about Hell. I think I would say that hell is for people who commit such serious sins that they stop being friends with God, and because they don't tell God they're sorry and try to do better, when they find out how wrong the sin is, and thus choose to love the sin and their own will more than God, God leaves them to themselves after they die, since they don't want to be with Him. And the only place where they can be by themselves forever, the way they want to be, is Hell. No real need to dwell on the torments just yet, I would think, and this way, Hell is presented as a consequence of very serious sin, which we can avoid if we choose to return to God. Seems balanced. Thoughts?

[Hat And Beard]

File this under ask a Priest imo. The thought of having a child think of the crucifixtion that way seems a little extreme to me, but Father will know.

[Chestertonian]

So I've been thinking about how one would go about teaching a child about Hell. I think I would say that hell is for people who commit such serious sins that they stop being friends with God, and because they don't tell God they're sorry and try to do better, when they find out how wrong the sin is, and thus choose to love the sin and their own will more than God, God leaves them to themselves after they die, since they don't want to be with Him. And the only place where they can be by themselves forever, the way they want to be, is Hell. No real need to dwell on the torments just yet, I would think, and this way, Hell is presented as a consequence of very serious sin, which we can avoid if we choose to return to God. Seems balanced. Thoughts?

the firs

t time we talked about hellto myson...maybe 2 years ago?  he cried. 

my explanation was  pretty similar to yours, except I did mention that it was a place where you would be miserable forever.  the little baltimore catechisms that we have also have pictures of people in a lake of fire etc....so that probably scared the crap out of him. 

there was a period of time where he used to have nightmares about going to hell.  he is very worried about his grandmother going to hell, and all of his jewish relatives.  He loves a lot of my side of the family very much. 

I don't want to sugarcoat hell too much because i dont want him to be shocked when he's older, and perhaps be even more upset.  but at the same time some of the images in the books he read may have been a little too scary and not appropriate for his age.  he hasnt gone to confession yet (he's 6), and i have no idea when or where he will go but he is always asking "is it a mortal sin if I dont eat all my lunch?"  "is piling on a venial sin?"  i just dont want him to imagine that if he doesnt eat all of his lunch at school it makes Jesus' suffering worse or something like that....