I'm astounded by Xavier's latest claim

[orate]

 

This topic is WAY above my pay grade.  I will leave it to the theologians to discuss and the Pope to define!

[Michael Wilson]

That the Blessed Virgin Mary is the Mediatrix of all graces, is a Catholic doctrine not yet solemnly defined. The original phrase of Xavier can be understood in a heterodox sense unless the word "De Congruo" is added to qualify "merited". Secondly, the B.V.M. Is the depositrix and distributrix of all of the merits gained for us by Our Lord's Passion and death. We already had a thread on this subjec and its pretty much an open and shut case.
Xavier, sorry about the initial post; I should have known better.

[Vetus Ordo]

Kreuzritter is finally realizing what the Catholic model entails.

Better late than never.

[dellery]

Mary, being Mediatrix of all Graces and Queen of all Martyrs, merited for us all the graces we receive and made satisfaction for our sins.

Is there even one among you, even the most zealous devotee of Mary, who will stand behind this assertion and not see it for the pagan denigration of Jesus and inversion of the Gospel that it is?

Hehehe. You seriuosly started a thread to to exclaim how astounded you are at something Xavier wrote??

How effeminate. You should be embarrased.

[Non Nobis]

This topic is WAY above my pay grade.  I will leave it to the theologians to discuss and the Pope to define!

It is way above my pay grade to be certain I know the truth on this topic, since it has been debated for so long by theologians and not defined by Popes.  But I don't think it is wrong to humbly ponder about such things, considering what some Saints and Popes (and some theologians) have said. Of course it is not necessary to do so (since it is not defined), and there may be other considerations that that are more helpful to our lives. And it may just be wrong for some people whose duty of state does not allow for spending much time on it, or who might be spiritually hurt by something that is over their head, or by coming to think they are an expert when that is not the truth.

[Non Nobis]

That the Blessed Virgin Mary is the Mediatrix of all graces, is a Catholic doctrine not yet solemnly defined. The original phrase of Xavier can be understood in a heterodox sense unless the word "De Congruo" is added to qualify "merited". Secondly, the B.V.M. Is the depositrix and distributrix of all of the merits gained for us by Our Lord's Passion and death. We already had a thread on this subjec and its pretty much an open and shut case.
Xavier, sorry about the initial post; I should have known better.

Thank you for your clarification.  I had about the same thoughts about your first post - that it wasn't complete enough.  I think it is important to recognize phrases that are heterodox when taken "as is" but express truth when implied but unstated words are added. Sometimes people (even Saints, or even Xavier) don't say say exactly what they mean, but people usually realize that a Saint (or Xavier) would not mean that Mary almost literally takes the place of Jesus.  (You know the theology of this issue better than I do).

[mikemac]

Mary, being Mediatrix of all Graces and Queen of all Martyrs, merited for us all the graces we receive and made satisfaction for our sins.

Is there even one among you, even the most zealous devotee of Mary, who will stand behind this assertion and not see it for the pagan denigration of Jesus and inversion of the Gospel that it is?

http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_le13is.htm

Iucunda Semper Expectatione

On the Rosary
His Holiness Pope Leo XIII
September 8, 1894
...
2. The recourse we have to Mary in prayer follows upon the office she continuously fills by the side of the throne of God as Mediatrix of Divine grace; being by worthiness and by merit most acceptable to Him, and, therefore, surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven. Now, this merciful office of hers, perhaps, appears in no other form of prayer so manifestly as it does in the Rosary. For in the Rosary all the part that Mary took as our co-Redemptress comes to us, as it were, set forth, and in such wise as though the facts were even then taking place; and this with much profit to our piety, whether in the contemplation of the succeeding sacred mysteries, or in the prayers which we speak and repeat with the lips. First come the Joyful Mysteries. The Eternal Son of God stoops to mankind, putting on its nature; but with the assent of Mary, who conceives Him by the Holy Ghost. Then St. John the Baptist, by a singular privilege, is sanctified in his mother's womb and favored with special graces that he might prepare the way of the Lord; and this comes to pass by the greeting of Mary who had been inspired to visit her cousin. At last the expected of nations comes to light, Christ the Savior. The Virgin bears Him. And when the Shepherds and the wise men, first-fruits of the Christian faith, come with longing to His cradle, they find there the young Child, with Mary, His Mother. Then, that He might before men offer Himself as a victim to His Heavenly Father, He desires to be taken to the Temple; and by the hands of Mary He is there presented to the Lord. It is Mary who, in the mysterious losing of her Son, seeks Him sorrowing, and finds Him again with joy. And the same truth is told again in the sorrowful mysteries.

[mikemac]

http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_pi11cc.htm

Caritate Christi Compulsi

Encyclical on the Sacred Heart
His Holiness Pope Pius XI
Promulgated on May 3, 1932
...
31. Let, therefore, this year the Feast of the Sacred Heart be for the whole Church one of holy rivalry of reparation and supplication. Let the faithful hasten in large numbers to the eucharistic board, hasten to the foot of the altar to adore the Redeemer of the world, under the veils of the Sacrament, that you, Venerable Brethren, will have solemnly exposed that day in all churches, let them pour out to that Merciful Heart that has known all the griefs of the human heart, the fullness of their sorrow, the steadfastness of their faith, the trust of their hope, the ardor of their charity. Let them pray to Him, interposing likewise the powerful patronage of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mediatrix of all graces, for themselves and for their families, for their country, for the Church; let them pray to Him for the Vicar of Christ on earth and for all the other Pastors, who share with him the dread burden of the spiritual government of souls; let them pray for their brethren who believe, for their brethren who err, for unbelievers, for infidels, even for the enemies of God and the Church, that they may be converted, and let them pray for the whole of poor mankind.

[mikemac]

And in light of Mary, our Lady of Fatima being called the Mediatrix of peace by Pope Pius XII on October 11, 1954 it is kind of sad that this attack on Mary comes 65 years to the day of him giving Mary this title, Mediatrix of peace.

http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_pi12ac.htm

Ad Caeli Reginam
His Holiness Pope Pius XII
Encyclical on Proclaiming the Queenship of Mary
Promulgated October 11, 1954
...
4. It is well known that we have taken advantage of every opportunity--through personal audiences and radio broadcasts--to exhort Our children in Christ to a strong and tender love, as becomes children, for Our most gracious and exalted Mother. On this point it is particularly fitting to call to mind the radio message which We addressed to the people of Portugal, when the miraculous image of the Virgin Mary which is venerated at Fatima was being crowned with a golden diadem.[3] We Ourselves called this the heralding of the "sovereignty" of Mary.[4]

5. And now, that We may bring the Year of Mary to a happy and beneficial conclusion, and in response to petitions which have come to Us from all over the world, We have decided to institute the liturgical feast of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Queen. This will afford a climax, as it were, to the manifold demonstrations of Our devotion to Mary, which the Christian people have supported with such enthusiasm.

6. In this matter We do not wish to propose a new truth to be believed by Christians, since the title and the arguments on which Mary's queenly dignity is based have already been clearly set forth, and are to be found in ancient documents of the Church and in the books of the sacred liturgy.

7. It is Our pleasure to recall these things in the present encyclical letter, that We may renew the praises of Our heavenly Mother, and enkindle a more fervent devotion towards her, to the spiritual benefit of all mankind.

8. From early times Christians have believed, and not without reason, that she of whom was born the Son of the Most High received privileges of grace above all other beings created by God. He "will reign in the house of Jacob forever,"[5] "the Prince of Peace,"[6] the "King of Kings and Lord of Lords."[7] And when Christians reflected upon the intimate connection that obtains between a mother and a son, they readily acknowledged the supreme royal dignity of the Mother of God.
...
51. By this Encyclical Letter We are instituting a feast so that all may recognize more clearly and venerate more devoutly the merciful and maternal sway of the Mother of God. We are convinced that this feast will help to preserve, strengthen and prolong that peace among nations which daily is almost destroyed by recurring crises. Is she not a rainbow in the clouds reaching towards God, the pledge of a covenant of peace?[62] "Look upon the rainbow, and bless Him that made it; surely it is beautiful in its brightness. It encompasses the heaven about with the circle of its glory, the hands of the Most High have displayed it."[63] Whoever, therefore, reverences the Queen of heaven and earth--and let no one consider himself exempt from this tribute of a grateful and loving soul--let him invoke the most effective of Queens, the Mediatrix of peace; let him respect and preserve peace, which is not wickedness unpunished nor freedom without restraint, but a well-ordered harmony under the rule of the will of God; to its safeguarding and growth the gentle urgings and commands of the Virgin Mary impel us.

52. Earnestly desiring that the Queen and Mother of Christendom may hear these Our prayers, and by her peace make happy a world shaken by hate, and may, after this exile show unto us all Jesus, Who will be our eternal peace and joy, to you, Venerable Brothers, and to your flocks, as a promise of God's divine help and a pledge of Our love, from Our heart We impart the Apostolic Benediction.

53. Given at Rome, from St. Peter's, on the feast of the Maternity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the eleventh day of October, 1954, in the sixteenth year of our Pontificate.

[Kreuzritter]

That the Blessed Virgin Mary is the Mediatrix of all graces, is a Catholic doctrine not yet solemnly defined. The original phrase of Xavier can be understood in a heterodox sense unless the word "De Congruo" is added to qualify "merited". Secondly, the B.V.M. Is the depositrix and distributrix of all of the merits gained for us by Our Lord's Passion and death. We already had a thread on this subjec and its pretty much an open and shut case.
Xavier, sorry about the initial post; I should have known better.

She didn't merit all the graces we receive de congruo and, even if you insist on that, she definitely did not make satisfaction for our sins, which is impossible.

[Kreuzritter]

Kreuzritter is finally realizing what the Catholic model entails.

Better late than never.

If by "Catholic" you mean the Hellenized religion invented by Scholastics and merged with Ultramontane ideology, yes. I reject it totally. It's quite apparent to me now that I was duped by the Fathers, the liturgy, the sacraments, the smells and bells, the actual Apostolic core of doctrine, and even the Catechism of Trent and Ludwig Ott's manual into a farce that had already lost its way and mutated into a lie before Modernism and Vatican II.

Maybe we can all hold hands and prostrate ourselves before a tree in a Vatican garden like the infallible and indefectible Holy See did this week.

[Michael Wilson]

Kreuritter stated:

She didn't merit all the graces we receive de congruo and, even if you insist on that, she definitely did not make satisfaction for our sins, which is impossible.

Keuzritter,
It is a teaching of the Church that a person in the state of grace can merit for others (because of the Communion of Saints); both the grace of conversion and the grace of salvation. They can also make reparation for the sins of others including the souls in Purgatory, through prayer, penance and good works. But Our Blessed Mother's close association and relationship with her Divine Son, as well as her own excellent degree of grace and sanctity, means that her works of satisfaction are supremely pleasing to her Son and to the Blessed Trinity; more so than that of all the other creatures put together. Therefore she is able to obtain from Her son all that she asks from Him for our conversion and salvation.
Ott states the following on the title of Co-Redemptrix:

St. Ambrose expressly teaches: "Christ's Passion did not require any support"(De inst. virg. 7).
In the power of the grace of Redemption merited by Christ, Mary, by her spiritually entering into the sacrifice of her Divine Son for men, made atonement for the sins of men, and (de congruo)) merited the application of the redemptive grace of Christ. In this manner she co-operates in the subjective redemption of mankind.
The Statement of Pope Pius X in the Encyclical "Ad Diem Illum" (1904): ....The Blessed Virgin merits for us de congruo what Christ merited de condigno is as the present tense "promeret" shows, not indeed to be taken as referring to the historical objective Redemption, which occurred once and for all, but to her ever-present, intercessory co-operation in the subjective redemption.

[Michael Wilson]

Kreuzritter is finally realizing what the Catholic model entails.

Better late than never.

If by "Catholic" you mean the Hellenized religion invented by Scholastics and merged with Ultramontane ideology, yes. I reject it totally. It's quite apparent to me now that I was duped by the Fathers, the liturgy, the sacraments, the smells and bells, the actual Apostolic core of doctrine, and even the Catechism of Trent and Ludwig Ott's manual into a farce that had already lost its way and mutated into a lie before Modernism and Vatican II.

Maybe we can all hold hands and prostrate ourselves before a tree in a Vatican garden like the infallible and indefectible Holy See did this week.

Kreutz,
I see that you are very distressed by the present situation of the Church; don't give up hope or faith in the Church.
My prayers and sympathies.

[Graham]

I dont agree with everything Kreutz has posted here but if anyone wants to know which of his arguments were killshots just look for the ones Xavier et al have studiously avoided confronting

[Vetus Ordo]

If by "Catholic" you mean the Hellenized religion invented by Scholastics and merged with Ultramontane ideology, yes. I reject it totally. It's quite apparent to me now that I was duped by the Fathers, the liturgy, the sacraments, the smells and bells, the actual Apostolic core of doctrine, and even the Catechism of Trent and Ludwig Ott's manual into a farce that had already lost its way and mutated into a lie before Modernism and Vatican II.

Fair enough. However, as you know, that runs contrary to established Catholic doctrine and authority. And there's no Catholicism without authority.

Maybe we can all hold hands and prostrate ourselves before a tree in a Vatican garden like the infallible and indefectible Holy See did this week.

Either do that or abandon any pretense of Catholicism altogether.