Humility: Good or Bad?

[james03]

Murder is not accomplishing anything rational.

So if a gang member murders members in another gang, and therefore is able to double his drug sales, and his income, he is behaving irrationally?  Suppose that doubling his income increases his happiness, and therefore is good for him?  How can you say that in this case murder is irrational?

[Probius]

Ayn Rand begins her philosophy with two axioms; existence exists and A is A.

To be more precise, she stole it from Aristotle, who shows that to hold such axioms depends on a first cause.

A is A is the law of identity, yes she took it from Aristotle.  But she no more stole the idea than did Aquinas.

[james03]

But she denied the conclusions from it.

[Probius]

But she denied the conclusions from it.

Which conclusions?

[james03]

Answer my question first about the murderer.  Failing to address my points means I don't feel like wasting anymore time.

[Probius]

The gang member is acting irrationally by selling illegal drugs and by being involved in a gang.  Both bring unnecessary risks to his life and his freedom.  His actions also harm the lives of the members of his community, a community which he gains benefits from.  By undermining his community he undermines a support system which he badly needs.  To think that the actions of a deadly gang can have any benefit for an individual is to have a short sided and deeply dark view of humanity.

[voxxpopulisuxx]

The gang member is acting irrationally by selling illegal drugs and by being involved in a gang.  Both bring unnecessary risks to his life and his freedom.  His actions also harm the lives of the members of his community, a community which he gains benefits from.  By undermining his community he undermines a support system which he badly needs.  To think that the actions of a deadly gang can have any benefit for an individual is to have a short sided and deeply dark view of humanity.

Why is a human superior to an ape or dog? Or dolphin (porpoise)

[Probius]

The gang member is acting irrationally by selling illegal drugs and by being involved in a gang.  Both bring unnecessary risks to his life and his freedom.  His actions also harm the lives of the members of his community, a community which he gains benefits from.  By undermining his community he undermines a support system which he badly needs.  To think that the actions of a deadly gang can have any benefit for an individual is to have a short sided and deeply dark view of humanity.

Why is a human superior to an ape or dog? Or dolphin (porpoise)

Because humans have reason.  Humans have hopes and dreams.  Humans look for meaning in a world which has no objective meaning.  Animals have none of these things.

I suppose you will say the difference is that humans have an immortal soul while animals have a mortal soul.  But, how do we know this?  Are we to say that a man has an immortal soul because he displays reason, while an animal doesn't because it displays no reason?  Why not eliminate a step and say that the difference between the two is reason?

[tradical]

The gang member is acting irrationally by selling illegal drugs and by being involved in a gang.  Both bring unnecessary risks to his life and his freedom.  His actions also harm the lives of the members of his community, a community which he gains benefits from.  By undermining his community he undermines a support system which he badly needs.  To think that the actions of a deadly gang can have any benefit for an individual is to have a short sided and deeply dark view of humanity.

Why is a human superior to an ape or dog? Or dolphin (porpoise)

Because humans have reason.  Humans have hopes and dreams.  Humans look for meaning in a world which has no objective meaning.  Animals have none of these things.

I suppose you will say the difference is that humans have an immortal soul while animals have a mortal soul.  But, how do we know this?  Are we to say that a man has an immortal soul because he displays reason, while an animal doesn't because it displays no reason?  Why not eliminate a step and say that the difference between the two is reason?

While similar these questions are not exactly the same as mine ... http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=3927.msg88607#msg88607

You stated that pride was taking joy in one's accomplishments. Your original definition did not include rationality. 

Who is the judge of what constitutes a rational action?

Regarding "as a dead man is no longer a man", so following your reasoning the murder/killing/euthanization  of severely mentally handicapped, comatose, clinically insane, newborn as well as unborn babies is therefore licit. So if a serial killer preyed upon these population groups you would not consider it an irrational act nor a bad or anti-humanistic act as these 'people' are not human following your definition.

Are you certain that you have considered these consequences of your thought?

God bless!

Looking forward to your thoughts on this ...

[voxxpopulisuxx]

The gang member is acting irrationally by selling illegal drugs and by being involved in a gang.  Both bring unnecessary risks to his life and his freedom.  His actions also harm the lives of the members of his community, a community which he gains benefits from.  By undermining his community he undermines a support system which he badly needs.  To think that the actions of a deadly gang can have any benefit for an individual is to have a short sided and deeply dark view of humanity.

Why is a human superior to an ape or dog? Or dolphin (porpoise)

Because humans have reason.  Humans have hopes and dreams.  Humans look for meaning in a world which has no objective meaning.  Animals have none of these things.

I suppose you will say the difference is that humans have an immortal soul while animals have a mortal soul.  But, how do we know this?  Are we to say that a man has an immortal soul because he displays reason, while an animal doesn't because it displays no reason?  Why not eliminate a step and say that the difference between the two is reason?

Reason is what exactly? Hope..what is that? Meaning? to where does meaning come in a purely physical material universe with no supernatural intellegence?
Further how do you know a dolphin has no reason? How do you know they dont hope...dogs apparently dream? Face it flyboy there is a supernatural intellect that you are a reflection of as are all humans.....it is only your base willfullness and evil desire to be god that blocks the grace of truth into your mind and heart. On a personal level you must have harbored a resentment of your father because that is the root of most who take "issue with God"

[Probius]

The gang member is acting irrationally by selling illegal drugs and by being involved in a gang.  Both bring unnecessary risks to his life and his freedom.  His actions also harm the lives of the members of his community, a community which he gains benefits from.  By undermining his community he undermines a support system which he badly needs.  To think that the actions of a deadly gang can have any benefit for an individual is to have a short sided and deeply dark view of humanity.

Why is a human superior to an ape or dog? Or dolphin (porpoise)

Because humans have reason.  Humans have hopes and dreams.  Humans look for meaning in a world which has no objective meaning.  Animals have none of these things.

I suppose you will say the difference is that humans have an immortal soul while animals have a mortal soul.  But, how do we know this?  Are we to say that a man has an immortal soul because he displays reason, while an animal doesn't because it displays no reason?  Why not eliminate a step and say that the difference between the two is reason?

Reason is what exactly? Hope..what is that? Meaning? to where does meaning come in a purely physical material universe with no supernatural intellegence?
Further how do you know a dolphin has no reason? How do you know they dont hope...dogs apparently dream? Face it flyboy there is a supernatural intellect that you are a reflection of as are all humans.....it is only your base willfullness and evil desire to be god that blocks the grace of truth into your mind and heart. On a personal level you must have harbored a resentment of your father because that is the root of most who take "issue with God"

Reason is the faculty that identifies and integrates the material provided by man's senses.  And you didn't answer my questions.

[voxxpopulisuxx]

The gang member is acting irrationally by selling illegal drugs and by being involved in a gang.  Both bring unnecessary risks to his life and his freedom.  His actions also harm the lives of the members of his community, a community which he gains benefits from.  By undermining his community he undermines a support system which he badly needs.  To think that the actions of a deadly gang can have any benefit for an individual is to have a short sided and deeply dark view of humanity.

Why is a human superior to an ape or dog? Or dolphin (porpoise)

Because humans have reason.  Humans have hopes and dreams.  Humans look for meaning in a world which has no objective meaning.  Animals have none of these things.

I suppose you will say the difference is that humans have an immortal soul while animals have a mortal soul.  But, how do we know this?  Are we to say that a man has an immortal soul because he displays reason, while an animal doesn't because it displays no reason?  Why not eliminate a step and say that the difference between the two is reason?

Reason is what exactly? Hope..what is that? Meaning? to where does meaning come in a purely physical material universe with no supernatural intellegence?
Further how do you know a dolphin has no reason? How do you know they dont hope...dogs apparently dream? Face it flyboy there is a supernatural intellect that you are a reflection of as are all humans.....it is only your base willfullness and evil desire to be god that blocks the grace of truth into your mind and heart. On a personal level you must have harbored a resentment of your father because that is the root of most who take "issue with God"

Reason is the faculty that identifies and integrates the material provided by man's senses.  And you didn't answer my questions.

Im sorry what questions are those? And you didnt answer mine either nor did I expect you could considering your worldview.

[Probius]

The gang member is acting irrationally by selling illegal drugs and by being involved in a gang.  Both bring unnecessary risks to his life and his freedom.  His actions also harm the lives of the members of his community, a community which he gains benefits from.  By undermining his community he undermines a support system which he badly needs.  To think that the actions of a deadly gang can have any benefit for an individual is to have a short sided and deeply dark view of humanity.

Why is a human superior to an ape or dog? Or dolphin (porpoise)

Because humans have reason.  Humans have hopes and dreams.  Humans look for meaning in a world which has no objective meaning.  Animals have none of these things.

I suppose you will say the difference is that humans have an immortal soul while animals have a mortal soul.  But, how do we know this?  Are we to say that a man has an immortal soul because he displays reason, while an animal doesn't because it displays no reason?  Why not eliminate a step and say that the difference between the two is reason?

Reason is what exactly? Hope..what is that? Meaning? to where does meaning come in a purely physical material universe with no supernatural intellegence?
Further how do you know a dolphin has no reason? How do you know they dont hope...dogs apparently dream? Face it flyboy there is a supernatural intellect that you are a reflection of as are all humans.....it is only your base willfullness and evil desire to be god that blocks the grace of truth into your mind and heart. On a personal level you must have harbored a resentment of your father because that is the root of most who take "issue with God"

Reason is the faculty that identifies and integrates the material provided by man's senses.  And you didn't answer my questions.

Im sorry what questions are those? And you didnt answer mine either nor did I expect you could considering your worldview.

I suppose you will say the difference is that humans have an immortal soul while animals have a mortal soul.  But, how do we know this?  Are we to say that a man has an immortal soul because he displays reason, while an animal doesn't because it displays no reason?  Why not eliminate a step and say that the difference between the two is reason?

To which questions are you referring?

[voxxpopulisuxx]

my questions:
Reason is what exactly? Hope..what is that? Meaning? to where does meaning come in a purely physical material universe with no supernatural intellegence?
Further how do you know a dolphin has no reason? How do you know they dont hope...dogs apparently dream?
your question:
I suppose you will say the difference is that humans have an immortal soul while animals have a mortal soul.  But, how do we know this?  Are we to say that a man has an immortal soul because he displays reason, while an animal doesn't because it displays no reason?  Why not eliminate a step and say that the difference between the two is reason?
your answer:
yes thats well put an animal has lifeforce that is a kind of soul (whether its immortal is immaterial) and because man displays reason and a NEED for REASONS (seeking meaning) obviously his consciousness has something else going on..but this too is besides the point...my question is why that has more value than the animalistic consciousness?

[Probius]

my questions:
Reason is what exactly? Hope..what is that? Meaning? to where does meaning come in a purely physical material universe with no supernatural intellegence?
Further how do you know a dolphin has no reason? How do you know they dont hope...dogs apparently dream?
your question:
I suppose you will say the difference is that humans have an immortal soul while animals have a mortal soul.  But, how do we know this?  Are we to say that a man has an immortal soul because he displays reason, while an animal doesn't because it displays no reason?  Why not eliminate a step and say that the difference between the two is reason?
your answer:
yes thats well put an animal has lifeforce that is a kind of soul (whether its immortal is immaterial) and because man displays reason and a NEED for REASONS (seeking meaning) obviously his consciousness has something else going on..but this too is besides the point...my question is why that has more value than the animalistic consciousness?

I have you my definition of reason: Reason is the faculty that identifies and integrates the material provided by man's senses.  Hope is to look forward toward something with desire and reasonable confidence.  Meaning is what man makes of the world wound him, it is what he chooses to pursue.  Animals haven't reason as they live on pure instincts and are unable to create anything.  Dogs do dream, but they do not hope.  A dog has no way of making plans for the future.

Why do you think animals have no reason?  Why do you think humans have immortal souls, but animals do not?