Separate property in marriage?

[diaduit]

You still haven't said whether these girls were decent Catholic ladies or not? 

I wasn't asking you 'who case two was'.

Hot air or not, you're wife is hopefully going to be the mother of your children, your life partner and your helper who will help you to get to heaven.....not some gold digging harlot eyeing up a life of reilly.. The problem isn't the house ownership if your discernment is good ie you can tell who is a decent girl.

Sorry to be personal but do you come from a broken home?   

p.s., nowhere have I assumed you won't be using rental income to provide for your family.

[GiftOfGod]

You still haven't said whether these girls were decent Catholic ladies or not? 

Of course they were (outwardly).

Sorry to be personal but do you come from a broken home?   

No but I've seen it enough from friends, family, neighbors, and coworkers to know that it is a disaster in almost every respect.

[diaduit]

You still haven't said whether these girls were decent Catholic ladies or not? 

Of course they were (outwardly).

Sorry to be personal but do you come from a broken home?   

No but I've seen it enough from friends, family, neighbors, and coworkers to know that it is a disaster in almost every respect.

Yes I know there is no escaping how terrible divorce is on men and women but especially the kids.

Outwardly? Just asking but the fact that they didn't accept your statement re house, is that a reason you deem them them 'outwardly'?

[GiftOfGod]

Outwardly? Just asking but the fact that they didn't accept your statement re house, is that a reason you deem them them 'outwardly'?

No, I say that because I didn't get to know them long enough to know how they are inwardly.

[james03]

You got three issues going on here.  I don't think this is hard to fix.

1.  Take a bow.  You've approached and dated (3) women seriously.  So that's a good thing.  You are on the right path.  Many young men are chicken clucks, or have an attitude they now "deserve" a wife just because they reach a certain age, even though they can't provide for a family.  You are actually in pretty good shape.

2.  The moral issue.  You absolutely have a right to protect yourself in this day-and-age.  If the Novus Ordo hadn't cucked on annulment, we wouldn't be in this situation.  In the time of your grandparents, if a woman "was unhappy", and got divorced, she was automatically excommunicated and Catholics would shun her.  Catholics would cross the road to avoid her in town.  Her chances of getting an annulment were basically zero.  Even civilly it might be considered abandonment, and the kids would go with Dad.  Catholic "divorce" and annulment (the real thing) were so rare they were basically zero.  But you know what happened, and now as a man you have been served a crap sandwich.  So....  morally you are duty bound to provide for your wife if you die.  Keep the property title in your name, but provide her with a will that automatically transfers the title to her with a stipulation that she is still married to you in the eyes of the Church and State.  Morally, you have done your duty.  The house your live in with her should be joint title, since by keeping house and raising kids, she's contributing.  If for some reason the property is to go to someone else (doesn't sound that way), but assuming it does, then use life insurance to provide for your wife if you die.  That's the moral issue.

3.  Game.  You messed up, but that's ok because that is how your learn.  3 dates is WAY to early to even talk about marriage, let alone get down to the nitty-gritty of property disposal etc....  And really you should never talk about marriage unless she brings it up.  Unless she's a wallflower type.  This might be a year out, or up to two years.  And when you do talk about marriage, just refer to your house as a rental property investment that will provide additional income for the family, and let her know of your plans to buy a family home.  And that's it.  I doubt she'll know what a title is, but if she enquires, tell her she'll be included in the will.  IF she pesters you to be put on the title, Red Flag! Run!.  You've got a gold digger. 

Basically you sent off a bad vibe and were over eager.  That's just inexperience, so learn from it.  I went through many an embarrassing time with the young lasses before I was good enough to tame them.  You learn by screwing up.

Finally, run this by a lawyer.  I believe you don't have to do anything since you acquired the property before marriage.  However, ASK A LAWYER.  You could look into a trust or some other asset protection method if needed.

And note, I know of multiple cases where an SSPX chick suddenly decided to "regularize" with the diocese and get an annulment, then go to the diocesan TLM.  Many Dioceses hand out annulments like a doctor handing out anti-depressents to feminists.  Probably most people reading this are aware of at least one case like that, so yes, this is something you have to consider in this day-and-age.  Unfortunately.  But you can still protect yourself while satisfying your duty to your wife.

[diaduit]

Outwardly? Just asking but the fact that they didn't accept your statement re house, is that a reason you deem them them 'outwardly'?

No, I say that because I didn't get to know them long enough to know how they are inwardly.

GoG just another pov, a woman takes a risk entering marriage too. Imagine getting married, giving up the nice paying job (as we should) and depend completely on our husband financially completely.  Add to that the children and if the husband walks out with a harlot the mother and children are in poverty. An immoral man is more likely to be inconsistent with financial support so more pressure on the mother to work and rear the children.

Don't let the fear of things going wrong interfere with your chance of finding a good wife and family.

[james03]

I agree he shouldn't be paranoid, but being prudent is fine.  Before Vatican II, this wasn't even an issue to even think about.

[GiftOfGod]

GoG just another pov, a woman takes a risk entering marriage too. Imagine getting married, giving up the nice paying job (as we should) and depend completely on our husband financially completely.  Add to that the children and if the husband walks out with a harlot the mother and children are in poverty. An immoral man is more likely to be inconsistent with financial support so more pressure on the mother to work and rear the children.

Not in the USA. There is spousal support (alimony), child support, and the divorce court splitting of community property. If there is such a big risk taken on by women, then why do women file for divorce at a higher rate than men? Because they stand to profit from it.

[diaduit]

4 broken trad marriages I know

2 husbands had affairs and went on to leave the wives for the other harlot and had further children. Both have practically dropped interest in the first family. One wife has to beg borrow and steal for her 9 children. Both husband's verbally mock and abuse their wives, one physically pushed his wife's head against the wall (all this after leaving the families)
1broke for serious alcohol reasons on the husbands part and years of emotional abuse.  He has since met someone else and had more children.
1 was a wife beater and sleep all day layabout.

All 4 women left in extreme financial stress depending on the state.
I know of no trad.women leaving their husbands.

I know plenty of NO women who have left their husbands.

James, courting is all about game, picking a wife is not. I find your advice quite disturbing actually. You have daughters I think?

[james03]

James, courting is all about game, picking a wife is not. I find your advice quite disturbing actually. You have daughters I think?

Properly trained daughters.  If a man discussed marriage after three dates, they'd run.  I don't mean to dis on this guy, he's learning.  But what part is disturbing?

3 dates is too early to discuss marriage?
Make sure you provide for your wife in your will?
Include your wife on the title for the family home?
Use life insurance to cover your wife if needed?

Things are probably a lot different in Ireland because you all are more or less a Catholic country.  In the US it's really bad and getting a Trad wife, while a big improvement, is fraught with hazards.

[GiftOfGod]

4 broken trad marriages I know

2 husbands had affairs and went on to leave the wives for the other harlot and had further children. Both have practically dropped interest in the first family. One wife has to beg borrow and steal for her 9 children. Both husband's verbally mock and abuse their wives, one physically pushed his wife's head against the wall (all this after leaving the families)
1broke for serious alcohol reasons on the husbands part and years of emotional abuse.  He has since met someone else and had more children.
1 was a wife beater and sleep all day layabout.

All 4 women left in extreme financial stress depending on the state.
I know of no trad.women leaving their husbands.

Have you gotten the man's side of the story? I hope you aren't listening only to the woman, her family, and her friends. I knew a guy who was known around church for "hitting his wife". Turns out he did but after she slapped him. She left that part of the story out.

[james03]

One more point.  A woman is built to want a man to provide for her.  Therefore she will want to find out about that sometime during your dating relationship.  It is important to distinguish natural feminine behaviour and gold digging.

Beyond that, take some time on the next one.  Get to know each other.  Have fun and enjoy life.  If she's quality, you'll eventually get to considering marriage, but cool the jets a little and don't over pursue.  Let her chase a little.

[james03]

Just a reminder, we aren't talking about team girl.  We are talking about a man with a particular problem who wants some advise.  If the ladies want advise on attracting and marrying a quality man, or discussing horror stories of what happens when you marry a bad man, start a new thread.

[diaduit]

4 broken trad marriages I know

2 husbands had affairs and went on to leave the wives for the other harlot and had further children. Both have practically dropped interest in the first family. One wife has to beg borrow and steal for her 9 children. Both husband's verbally mock and abuse their wives, one physically pushed his wife's head against the wall (all this after leaving the families)
1broke for serious alcohol reasons on the husbands part and years of emotional abuse.  He has since met someone else and had more children.
1 was a wife beater and sleep all day layabout.

All 4 women left in extreme financial stress depending on the state.
I know of no trad.women leaving their husbands.

Have you gotten the man's side of the story? I hope you aren't listening only to the woman, her family, and her friends. I knew a guy who was known around church for "hitting his wife". Turns out he did but after she slapped him. She left that part of the story out.

Yes most definitely sure and in 2 of the cases the priests were incredibly supportive of the wives.


Yes, there is probably a difference but we are catching up super fast.

GOG, do you pay for meals/cinema tickets, taxis when you're on a date?

Lastly , I didn't think it was a thread solely for men and I am giving a woman's perspective. I took a second breath when I read about his plans for his house, obviously I'm not on my own when 3 women he courted didn't like it either.
Tbf you've a point about women look for a man who can provide, it's in built in us. It's why broad shoulders, big build and strength is attractive , it goes back to wanting a fit man who is capable of hunting and gathering food.
He doesn't have to tell the women he has the house at all, not until he serious about her, she's not entitled to that information but I can see a deliberate statement like he has done would be demeaning to her, again he wants all the benefits of her but he doesn't share all of his.

[christulsa]

My view on annulment is that it should be rare, but that the pre-V2 norms do apply in more cases than we might be aware, so real cases aren't rare today. For example, if shortly after the marriage the man won't try and have sex with his wife or try and have kids, and acts distant from his wife (example an in law of mine) that may be grounds for a declaration of nullity.

And I think it's not mainly trad men ruining trad marriages, yes very possibly the majority of the time, but I can also think of examples where the wife is mostly unfaithful to her vows more than the man.