Muhammad: A Mercy to the Worlds?

Started by Vetus Ordo, June 17, 2019, 01:45:42 PM

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TheReturnofLive

Quote from: Heinrich on October 13, 2019, 11:17:34 AM
You need to spend more time reading rulings instead of coming on here and being sententious.

Oh, but of course, nobody else here is sententious. It's not like we had a 400 post thread about whether it's moral to bring children to Mass.
"The task of the modern educator is not to cut down jungles but irrigate deserts." - C.S. Lewis

Heinrich

Quote from: TheReturnofLive on October 13, 2019, 12:07:23 PM
Quote from: Heinrich on October 13, 2019, 11:17:34 AM
You need to spend more time reading rulings instead of coming on here and being sententious.

Oh, but of course, nobody else here is sententious. It's not like we had a 400 post thread about whether it's moral to bring children to Mass.

Are you Catholic and were you denigrating a perceived modus vivendi of the Catholics here all the while giving tacit support of a clearly mutinous individual?
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

Vetus Ordo

An excellent presentation about the life and works of Al-Ghazali, the famous Hujjut ul-Islam, by Dr. Abdal Hakim Murad with his usual sober demeanor and precise language.

A must-see for anyone interested in Islamic philosophy.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMWEggenO3c[/yt]

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmNyOCCnZgg[/yt]
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.

TheReturnofLive

#243
Quote from: Heinrich on October 13, 2019, 02:02:37 PM
Quote from: TheReturnofLive on October 13, 2019, 12:07:23 PM
Quote from: Heinrich on October 13, 2019, 11:17:34 AM
You need to spend more time reading rulings instead of coming on here and being sententious.

Oh, but of course, nobody else here is sententious. It's not like we had a 400 post thread about whether it's moral to bring children to Mass.

Are you Catholic and were you denigrating a perceived modus vivendi of the Catholics here all the while giving tacit support of a clearly mutinous individual?

1. I don't know what I am. I was born and raised Catholic, Roman Rite. But I don't know. I'm certainly a schismatic by any Church's standards, though, whether that's Catholicism or Orthodoxy or Oriental Orthodoxy, and I'm not canonically regular in any of these institutions.
2. I am denigrating a perceived modus vivendi, because a 400 long post about the morality of bringing children to Mass, started by a person castigating Catholics for bringing children to Mass, is absolutely retarded and a waste of life that could be spent doing anything else that's beneficial. What, when people are literally worshipping the golden calf, you are going to complain that Moses's tablets aren't made of marble and thus not authoritative?
3. Vetus is mutinous, but he's just as lost as you guys are. What makes me not want to be a part of Roman Catholicism outside of my own childhood sentiment / attachment to the beauty of the Liturgical West, as well as how fascinating Thomism is, is how logically inconsistent it is to recognize the Pope as the Pope but ignore his Ordinary Magisterium, which is protected by the Holy Spirit. I don't want to live that logical inconsistency - you guys are fine with it, I can't stand it. Neither can Vetus.
"The task of the modern educator is not to cut down jungles but irrigate deserts." - C.S. Lewis

Miriam_M

Referring to your last post, TROL,
The Church herself is illogical.  That's the point.  She doesn't know whether she's coming or going.  Even BXVI cannot reconcile V2 with Tradition; words fail him in the attempt because the very language of modernism (i.e., V2) is irreconcilable with the language and principles that define the permanent deposit of faith. 

The hierarchy makes fools of themselves trying to square circles and shining the laity and the secular world on.

I don't have any logical problem avoiding the illogical.
:)

TheReturnofLive

#245
Quote from: Miriam_M on October 27, 2019, 12:11:18 AM
Referring to your last post, TROL,
The Church herself is illogical.  That's the point.  She doesn't know whether she's coming or going.  Even BXVI cannot reconcile V2 with Tradition; words fail him in the attempt because the very language of modernism (i.e., V2) is irreconcilable with the language and principles that define the permanent deposit of faith. 

The hierarchy makes fools of themselves trying to square circles and shining the laity and the secular world on.

I don't have any logical problem avoiding the illogical.
:)

And God bless you for that. It's a gift when one can accept they can't know everything; even though I know this, I do everything to try to know everything, and when something is too illogical for me, it drives me up the wall (nobody can live without some compartmentalization or dissonance; it's a lie if someone suggests otherwise).

Orthodoxy is not perfect in its logical consistency (as if Pope Leo didn't claim Papal jurisdictional authority, the East didn't know who Saint Augustine was, or Saint Gregory the Dialogist's very clearly Western theology including Purgatory and the Filioque), but at the same time, when it's something so fundamental like a major issue of morality such as idolatry, heterodox worship, Infidelic worship, the status of the Old Covenant, or even just the way one ought to worship God; I can't stand it; I can't compartmentalize it, because it's thrown at me every single day how I'm accepting contradiction whenever I have to hear about Pope Francis from any secular or Catholic media - even Sedevacantist media.

Just the fact that I know Mortalium Animos and Unitatis Redintegratio were produced by the same, infallible Magisterium drives me up the wall; same with how the Pope expressly condemned Pentecostalism for being at odds with a fundamental Christian ethos, but Paul the VI the Great suddenly endorses it and says it's wonderful.
"The task of the modern educator is not to cut down jungles but irrigate deserts." - C.S. Lewis

Tales

QuoteIt's a gift when one can accept they can't know everything; even though I know this, I do everything to try to know everything, and when something is too illogical for me, it drives me up the wall (nobody can live without some compartmentalization or dissonance; it's a lie if someone suggests otherwise).

There are so many parts of Christianity that are incomprehensible to us (read: don't make sense) and yet by nature of being Christian we accept these incomprehensible things and are fine with them.  The Trinity, the nature of Jesus, eternal God dying, predestination, so many seemingly evil and contradictory things in the OT, the existence of evil, God the merciful Father and the existence of eternal hell, the divinely inspired nature of Scripture and its seeming errors, and so on so forth.  Sure we can conjure up distinctions upon distinctions to try and glimpse at how these make sense, but none of that is concrete such as two and two making four is.  Yet as Christians we all believe these things and are fine with it.  To be crass an atheist might smirk that you've swallowed all that but now the shenanigans with Fran Fran are a bridge too far.  In reality its just that its the latest new incomprehensible thing and given that its happening now during your life rather than 2,000 years ago, it seems that much more hard to accept.

But this is not just a matter of religion.  I can puzzle over from where my ideas come forth until my puzzler falls off and still have no clue what an idea is or from where it comes, and where it goes once it is forgotten.  Or what exactly I am and how it is that I have these ideas in my mind, or what a mind even is.  And don't even get me started on free will.  Reality is so blindingly complex that it is utterly impossible for us to grasp it.  We can glean off the surface basic reality, and if we mine it a little we can find out some new interesting gems right beneath the surface, but as we drill deeper into our quest for understanding reality we quickly become utterly baffled.  It is not just philosophy / metaphysics where this occurs either, for we see it in physics with the total mystery of quantum mechanics.  Sure we can model some interesting things there and use it for some practical purposes, but why the particles do as they do and how it is at all possible for this to be the way reality is is mindblowing.

Christianity is not about the intellect.  Blessed are not the smart for they'll figure it all out.  It is about faith.  It is about trusting in another (Jesus) that despite it all, this all makes sense, and that He is there for us as long as we turn to Him.  Christianity is not a scholarly probe to dot all the i's and cross all the t's.  It's about living the life with the Spirit inside of you.

Vetus Ordo

Here's an interesting lecture by Sheikh Muhammad Yasin about the life of the famous Andalusian scholar Ibn Arabi, a towering albeit controversial figure of Islamic mysticism and philosophy.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqaRCUcyRc[/yt]
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.

mikemac

Here's an interesting song by Bugs and Daffy.  Sing along if you know the words.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-t8PngHgWY[/yt]
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima's prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is "despair, overcome."
Source

Heinrich

Quote from: mikemac on October 29, 2019, 01:19:25 PM
Here's an interesting song by Bugs and Daffy.  Sing along if you know the words.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-t8PngHgWY[/yt]

I gleaned so much from this, thank you.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

Vetus Ordo

Let's get back to adult conversation.

Here's an entertaining talk by Dr. Jonathan Brown on the subject of slavery in Islam. Overall, I believe Dr. Brown does a decent presentation of the theme, although there are parts here and there where he doesn't explore it to the fullest and where dodges a few questions, especially regarding the rights over slaves taken in war. Still, it's worth watching for those interested in the subject of slavery and religion.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHSjfuPVels[/yt]
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.

Vetus Ordo

Interesting lecture by Sheikh Nouman Ali Khan on the three common reasons that drive Muslims, especially young Muslims, away from their religion. Namely: 1) that the scriptures are outdated and do not give adequate answers the problems of our time; 2) that religion is strict and harsh and the more religious you are, the harsher and more unpleasant you become; and 3) when confronted with your doubts, your clerics and your elders do not explain why you should believe to begin with, only what you should do.

This lecture could be easily applied to Christianity as well. Enjoy!

How We Lose Our Iman?

3 Reasons, 3 Concerns and 3 Problems due to which millions of people are obstructed from Islam. Also 3 solutions to help overcome these 3 Problems. Reminder by brother Nouman Ali Khan.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLTPlJmD1b8[/yt]
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.

awkwardcustomer

Quote from: TheReturnofLive on October 13, 2019, 12:07:23 PM
Oh, but of course, nobody else here is sententious. It's not like we had a 400 post thread about whether it's moral to bring children to Mass.

Not children.  Babies and toddlers.  This was made clear several times during the thread.

Please get it right if you're going to accuse people of being sententious for questioning the entirely modern novelty of bringing babies and toddlers to Mass, a novelty  that Trads have embraced for some reason.
And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.

Mono no aware

An intriguing documentary concerning the scholar Dan Gibson and his controversial theory that the city believed to be Mecca in the Qur'an was actually the ancient city of Petra.  I watched it because I thought it might have a focus on the theory (which I like, despite its dubiousness) that the Kaaba was originally a shrine to a Babylonian moon god.  As it turns out, it doesn't, but it's interesting in its own right.  Islam appears to have some serious questions around its geographical origins.  Tonight I intend to watch Tom Holland's Islam: The Untold Story, which I think is based around some of this same hypothesis.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIw1OPH6QvM[/yt]

Xavier

#254
An understanding of Church History is the best answer to Islam. Islam claims Jesus was not crucified. Yet the crucifixion of Our Lord Jesus in 33 A.D., when Tiberius Caesar was Emperor, when Pontius Pilate was Roman procurator of Judaea, has been called "as certain as anything historical can ever be" even by secular historians. It is proved by the Shroud of Turin; and the great burst of energy recently diagnosed to have been necessary to imprint the Image of the Negative upon the Shroud could only have happened at the Resurrection. Likewise, although Islam confesses with us that Jesus Christ was a Mighty Prophet, and even the Virgin-Born Messiah, of His Immaculate Mother Mary, it claims that He was not the Son of God nor the Lord Himself. That is answered by the very prophesy of the Virgin Birth 700 years before the Savior (Isa 7:14) where it is said He who will be born of the Virgin will be Immanuel, i.e. God with us. The Lord proved to the Pharisees that the Messiah would be the Lord Himself, from the Messianic Psalm (110:1) where King David calls the Messiah his Lord. But also it is a historical fact that the holy Apostles of Jesus Christ Our Lord - St. John, St. Peter, St. Paul, St. Jude etc we see in Sacred Scripture itself do so - believed and preached and taught everywhere that Jesus Christ was the Lord Our God. This is historical fact. And thus it follows that Muslims are called to come become Christians, believe in Jesus as Lord, and be saved.

Bible verses on walking blamelessly with God, after being forgiven from our former sins. Some verses here: https://dailyverses.net/blameless

"[2] He that walketh without blemish, and worketh justice:[3] He that speaketh truth in his heart, who hath not used deceit in his tongue: Nor hath done evil to his neighbour: nor taken up a reproach against his neighbours.(Psalm 14)

"[2] For in many things we all offend. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man."(James 3)

"[14] And do ye all things without murmurings and hesitations; [15] That you may be blameless, and sincere children of God, without reproof, in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation; among whom you shine as lights in the world." (Phil 2:14-15)