Humility: Good or Bad?

[voxxpopulisuxx]

I dont listen to or watch Alex Jones
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F2j8js_INE[/yt]
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZEvA8BCoBw[/yt]
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvKD-XNpG_s[/yt]
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ1P2K1j-gQ[/yt]
never collapsed!

[voxxpopulisuxx]

1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?

No. Numerous present and former high-level military leaders and politicians have questioned the administration's version of 9/11.

2. Isn't 9/11 a partisan political issue, where extremists in one party are simply trying to smear the other party for political gain?

No, credible people from across the political spectrum question 9/11, including prominent conservatives,   prominent liberals, and prominent centrists.

3. Isn't it disrespectful to the victims of 9/11 and their families to question the events of that day?

No. Many of the families of the victims question the official story and are demanding that the truth be disclosed. The same is true of many dying heroes - the first responders who worked tirelessly to save lives on and after 9/11 - and are soon to become victims of the 9/11 attacks themselves. See this article.

4. Isn't it clear that Muslims carried out 9/11, and the war on terror is a clash of civilizations and religions? Therefore, isn't 9/11 skepticism harmful to our faith? And aren't the people questioning 9/11 anti-Semites?

Actually, 9/11 truth is a vital issue for all people of faith. That is why prominent Christian theologians state that 9/11 was an inside job.

Moreover, many people of Jewish faith question 9/11. Indeed, prominent Jewish scholars and rabbis say that uncovering the truth of 9/11 has the power to bring positive, lasting change to our nation and to our world.

5. Isn't this kind of thinking really a psychological problem?

Not at all. Some very prominent psychologists question the government's version of 9/11.

6. Aren't conspiracy theories anti-American, and isn't all the questioning of 9/11 part of what's wrong with America today?

Questioning our government is part of what it means to be a patriot and to love your country. People who question 9/11 are patriots who love their country.

7. Doesn't questioning 9/11 distract from much more important issues facing America today?

On the contrary, it is one of the very most important issues facing our country, and is closely connected with other problems we face.

8. But the government would NEVER hurt its own people. At least not intentionally.

Actually, the U.S. government -- and many other Western governments -- have done so before. Initially, the Joint Chiefs of Staff actually approved a plan to carry out terrorist attacks and kill U.S. citizens and blame it on Cuba, as a justification for invading Cuba. And a government informant has stated that he tried to stop the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, but that the FBI intentionally let the bombing happen . There are many other examples of other governments killing their own people for political gain, and the U.S. government killing its own as well.

As additional examples of the U.S. government letting U.S. citizens die based upon deceptions, many people breathed in highly toxic dust near ground zero, after the government knowingly misrepresented the risk, going as far as discouraging first responders from wearing masks. The U.S. government also misled the American people into the Iraqi war, causing thousands of American deaths.

9. Terrorists crashing planes into the World Trade Center and Pentagon was wholly unexpected in 2001, wasn't it?

No, it was not unexpected.

10. But there is always confusion in any battle situation. Wasn't it the "fog of war" which prevented a successful response to the 9/11 attacks?

It was not the fog of war. Instead, it was the multiple war games, including hijack exercises involving real planes, and the injection of fake radar blips onto air traffic controller's screens which prevented the good people in the military from stopping the attacks from succeeding against their targets in New York and at the Pentagon. The dedicated people in the U.S. military were tricked and betrayed, so that they could not do their job.

11. Wouldn't a huge conspiracy involving thousands of people have been necessary to carry out 9/11, and wouldn't someone have spilled the beans by now if there really was a conspiracy?

Not necessarily. In fact, a small handful of people could have pulled it off.

12. Let's get back to the government's failure to stop or intercept the attacks. If the U.S. government wasn't perfect in stopping the 9/11 attacks, wasn't it due to a series of innocent mistakes or -- at the very worst -- incompetence?

Initially, the incompetence argument doesn't really pan out, and appearances may be deceiving. And there are many examples of the U.S. faking intelligence in order to promote its political goals.

Moreover, the government has not acted like it is trying to close vulnerabilities or fix problems which supposedly were unforeseeable before 9/11. Why wouldn't such vulnerabilities be corrected if they were the real cause of 9/11?

And there has been a clear government cover-up of the facts surrounding 9/11. Why would the government work so hard to cover up the true facts of 9/11, going so far as to repeatedly misrepresent the facts and change its story, if incompetence was the only problem with the official story?

And, apparently, fake evidence was planted to implicate certain people for 9/11. Why would fake evidence be needed if the official story was true? Do innocent people plant fake evidence?

13. Didn't a government agency come clean about its mistaken timeline, solving the whole 9/11 "conspiracy" once and for all?

Norad's newest "confession" is just the latest of multiple, completely conflicting versions of what happened on 9/11
Moreover, the latest statements by the military simply attempt to scapegoat one government agency, since the previous attempts to blame other agencies made no sense.

14. Isn't talk about "demolition" of the Twin Towers just a crazy theory by a couple of nutty people?

In fact, a lot of credible eyewitness testimony supports this theory, and more and more credible experts are discussing this theory every day.

15. But no one could have planted all of the explosives needed to bring down the Twin Towers without people noticing, right?

No, that is not true.

16. If rogue elements within the U.S. government did cause 9/11, why would they have used bombs to bring down the Twin Towers, when crashing planes into the buildings would have been sufficient to act as a "Pearl Harbor" type justification for war?

Apparently, for its shock and awe effect, which made for a very overwhelmed, afraid, and thus docile and compliant population.

17. If the government's account of 9/11 is not accurate, wouldn't the media have been "all over it"? Isn't the fact that most mainstream media sources don't spend much time covering these questions show there's nothing there?

No. Even well-known news anchors and writers say that self-censorship, censorship by editors and producers, and pressure from the government means that many important stories are not being covered. 9/11 is one of those stories.

18. I've heard claims made by the so-called "9/11 Truth Movement" which have turned out to be false. Doesn't that invalidate the whole 9/11 thing?

No, for two reasons. First, there are so many lines of evidence which overwhelmingly prove that 9/11 was an inside job, that even if one or two theories are disproven, the basic thesis still stands.

Moreover, there are some people who are simply sloppy in their thinking, and who throw out unfounded theories which do not stand up under scrutiny. In addition, there are, unfortunately, disruptive people who are working hard to make crazy claims to intentionally discredit the movement. This is a traditional tactic for undermining those who question the government.

[Probius]

1. Don't all the high-level officials agree on what happened on 9/11?
I seriously doubt it, it is highly unlikely to find total agreement within any group.  This also has no bearing on the truth.

2. Isn't 9/11 a partisan political issue, where extremists in one party are simply trying to smear the other party for political gain?
This would also be highly unlikely, just like number one.  There are idiots in both the Republican and Democratic parties.

3. Isn't it disrespectful to the victims of 9/11 and their families to question the events of that day?

Simple questioning isn't disrespectful, though it can be if prudence is not practiced.  The conspiracy theories are disrespectful to truth and logic, however.


4. Isn't it clear that Muslims carried out 9/11, and the war on terror is a clash of civilizations and religions? Therefore, isn't 9/11 skepticism harmful to our faith? And aren't the people questioning 9/11 anti-Semites?
9/11 was done by Muslim extremists.  Islam is a religion of hate, though not all Muslims are hateful.  This is because, thankfully, not all Muslims take their religion seriously.  9/11 skepticism has nothing to do with the faith.  Truthers also have nothing to do with skepticism either, a true skeptic looks for evidence, and accepts the truth.  Some Truthers are anti-Semites, others are not.

5. Isn't this kind of thinking really a psychological problem?
Yes, as all conspiracy theories are.  It's not a terrible psychological problem, but it is one.

6. Aren't conspiracy theories anti-American, and isn't all the questioning of 9/11 part of what's wrong with America today?
Questioning is never anti-American.  In fact, the phrase 'anti-American' is creepy.

7. Doesn't questioning 9/11 distract from much more important issues facing America today?
Yes, we are dealing with serious threats to our liberty.  This conspiracy non-sense helps nothing.

8. But the government would NEVER hurt its own people. At least not intentionally.

The government has hurt many people, that's what governments do, it's in their nature.

9. Terrorists crashing planes into the World Trade Center and Pentagon was wholly unexpected in 2001, wasn't it?
No, it wasn't entirely unexpected.  The CIA had information that this kind of thing might happen.  Though, they had lots of information that never panned out also.  When terrorists attack they use 'chatter' beforehand, this means flooding the radios with false information so the CIA doesn't know which planned attack is real and which isn't.

10. But there is always confusion in any battle situation. Wasn't it the "fog of war" which prevented a successful response to the 9/11 attacks?

Government incompetence was the problem.  Several government agencies refused to speak or share information with each other, which led to no one in the government seeing this coming.

11. Wouldn't a huge conspiracy involving thousands of people have been necessary to carry out 9/11, and wouldn't someone have spilled the beans by now if there really was a conspiracy?
Yes, conspiracies eventually see the light of day, someone is bound to speak eventually.  The more people involved in the conspiracy, the bigger the chance that someone will sing.

12. Let's get back to the government's failure to stop or intercept the attacks. If the U.S. government wasn't perfect in stopping the 9/11 attacks, wasn't it due to a series of innocent mistakes or -- at the very worst -- incompetence?
It was incompetence, see above.

13. Didn't a government agency come clean about its mistaken timeline, solving the whole 9/11 "conspiracy" once and for all?

I have heard nothing of this.

14. Isn't talk about "demolition" of the Twin Towers just a crazy theory by a couple of nutty people?
Yes.

15. But no one could have planted all of the explosives needed to bring down the Twin Towers without people noticing, right?
Yes.

16. If rogue elements within the U.S. government did cause 9/11, why would they have used bombs to bring down the Twin Towers, when crashing planes into the buildings would have been sufficient to act as a "Pearl Harbor" type justification for war?
They wouldn't, the planes weren't a coincidence, they took down the towers.

17. If the government's account of 9/11 is not accurate, wouldn't the media have been "all over it"? Isn't the fact that most mainstream media sources don't spend much time covering these questions show there's nothing there?
Somebody would have, even if only one news outlet.

18. I've heard claims made by the so-called "9/11 Truth Movement" which have turned out to be false. Doesn't that invalidate the whole 9/11 thing?
One falsehood does not invalidate an entire movement.  But, yes the entire movement is false for other reasons.

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[voxxpopulisuxx]

Youve asserted everything and proven nothing. You brought no evidence of any kind. Ive brought eyewitness testimony...physical evidence...and video evidence. You brought...Im god and if I speak it must be true. Please explain the collapse of bjdg 7 without appealing to miricles. I mean after all youve spent this entire thread extolling the absolutes of physical laws and nature. So please bring the absolutes and explain the total ncollapse of bldg 7.

[Probius]

Building 7 was badly damaged as a result of the twin towers coming down.  There was a massive amount of falling debris from from two skyscrapers collapsing.


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[Probius]

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[voxxpopulisuxx]

Ok so unlike you I actually watched the vid you posted to make your case. And what did you submit? Ni science nothing but assertions by a professional talking head. Assertions that do not even debunk a single peice of the evidence I submitted. Assertions of frings...kooks...ad hominum blah blah. Meanwhile the actual vid of wt7 collapsing does not square with YOUR assertion of a PARTIALLY damaged building that completely collapsed at freefall speed directly into its own footprint. Yes sir you so called skeptics amd realists have really failed your country. Swallowing and then propogating the govt myth...the myths used to destroy what little liberty we had left after bushclintonbush. You sir and your crudulity and assinine narcissism are the enemy of American freedom. Your basically the apex of liars because you lie to yourself. You are mindscrewed. Your mind is completely severed from the reality around you.

[Probius]

I may live here, but I certainly do not call America 'my country' any more than a slave might call a plantation 'his'.  You know nothing of freedom, freedom does not bow to any authority.  Yes, 9/11 has been used to turn this country into a 


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[Probius]

...police state, but that doesn't mean I have to accept ridiculous conspiracy theories from people like Alex Jones and Jesse Ventura.  I don't trust people with tin foil hats on their heads.  It is hard to take a man seriously when he starts spewing this garbage from his mouth.  I have come to the conclusion that you must be clinically insane, so I suppose I shouldn't make fun of you.

You know nothing of freedom, a man must accept reality in order to be free.


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[Probius]

Tapatalk is not letting me edit...


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[Archer]

And with that I think we'll say good-by to Crimson Flyboy.

[Mono no aware]

1501 posts: he made it to Feldwebel just in the nick of time.  Adieu, Crimson.  And good riddance to Randian Objectivism.

[voxxpopulisuxx]

Crap I was trying to get the last word LOL
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bHRAYGo0-c[/yt]

[Wicked Papist]

Crap I was trying to get the last word LOL
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bHRAYGo0-c[/yt]

Nothing says "charitable" quite like mocking a permanently banned poster.

[voxxpopulisuxx]

Crap I was trying to get the last word LOL
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bHRAYGo0-c[/yt]

Nothing says "charitable" quite like mocking a permanently banned poster.

oh stop it ...mr piety man
I was mocking my self...where were you when this child was mocking religion for dozens of pages. That ivory tower have an elevator?