Chester Bennington dies

Mono no aware · July 23, 2017, 07:20:43 PM

Quote from: dymphna17 on July 23, 2017, 06:38:24 PMIt's really not that hard. If you don't like that person, then. don't. pray. for. them. If you like or don't like Chester Bennington's music, carry on about it all you want. But Inquisitor apparently cares because he asked for prayers for Mr. Bennington's soul. You have said no. That's fine. But you don't get to decide "who's soul is worth praying for". Christ died for every single soul.

I'm not saying Chester Bennington shouldn't be prayed for; I just think it's kind of perverse that celebrities get prayer requests over the thousands of other people who died that same day. It's strange.

dymphna17 · July 23, 2017, 11:15:56 PM

Quote from: Pon de Replay on July 23, 2017, 07:20:43 PM
Quote from: dymphna17 on July 23, 2017, 06:38:24 PMIt's really not that hard. If you don't like that person, then. don't. pray. for. them. If you like or don't like Chester Bennington's music, carry on about it all you want. But Inquisitor apparently cares because he asked for prayers for Mr. Bennington's soul. You have said no. That's fine. But you don't get to decide "who's soul is worth praying for". Christ died for every single soul.

I'm not saying Chester Bennington shouldn't be prayed for; I just think it's kind of perverse that celebrities get prayer requests over the thousands of other people who died that same day. It's strange.

OK. That I can handle. The implication that not all souls deserve to be prayed for, not so much. I'm wondering though, how is it any different than praying for, say, Pope Francis? He is causing more souls to go to hell than 50 Chester Bennington's and 2, 000 Linkin Park's. He (PF) is basically a celebrity. Yet, when he dies, we will be obligated to pray for him. How is it different? Not trying to be a smart alec, I'm genuinely asking.

Sempronius · July 24, 2017, 05:17:30 AM

Chester was just a product of the hedonistic culture. Pope Francis is just a product of the modern catholicism. None of them personally are leading souls to hell.

Should we pray for celebreties? Feels stupid and one shouldn't have a emotional attachment to celebrities.

"A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand;"

Better to pray that this hedonism wont destroy your own soul. (Not directing this to anyone particular)

Mono no aware · July 24, 2017, 08:55:13 AM

Quote from: dymphna17 on July 23, 2017, 11:15:56 PMOK. That I can handle. The implication that not all souls deserve to be prayed for, not so much. I'm wondering though, how is it any different than praying for, say, Pope Francis? He is causing more souls to go to hell than 50 Chester Bennington's and 2, 000 Linkin Park's. He (PF) is basically a celebrity. Yet, when he dies, we will be obligated to pray for him. How is it different? Not trying to be a smart alec, I'm genuinely asking.

I guess it would be different because Pope Francis at present is still alive. If the request had been to pray for Chester Bennington at the height of his career because he was leading souls to hell with his music, then it would've been different. But it would still have been strange to single him out for that, because Korn and Limp Bizkit (and "LOL" at the spelling of these band names) were doing the same thing. A blanket prayer that popular culture might get elevated above the current level of depravity would probably suffice.

Also, "pray for the pope" is a time-honored Catholic notion, whereas "pray for the purveryors of nü metal" would be something of a novelty (although certainly worthwhile, if the intention is for their conversion and / or that they cease and desist all nefarious music). It's a completely separate topic, but on a different thread we were discussing how if Pope Francis is really "leading more souls to hell than 50 Chester Bennington's and 2,000 Linkin Parks" then it's difficult to say that the Church hasn't defected. Obviously many posters disagreed, but I thought it was a good point.

Just for the record, though: I don't think certain souls shouldn't be prayed for. Praying for "all souls" is what I was arguing for. My "if / then" equation that you fixed earlier was granting the notion: if Chester Bennington is worth praying for, then so is every other soul who died the same day. That's why I thought praying the Requiem Aeternam for "all the faithful departed" was more tasteful than singling out a celebrity for special treatment.

dymphna17 · July 26, 2017, 05:30:43 AM

Quote from: Pon de Replay on July 24, 2017, 08:55:13 AM
Quote from: dymphna17 on July 23, 2017, 11:15:56 PMOK. That I can handle. The implication that not all souls deserve to be prayed for, not so much. I'm wondering though, how is it any different than praying for, say, Pope Francis? He is causing more souls to go to hell than 50 Chester Bennington's and 2, 000 Linkin Park's. He (PF) is basically a celebrity. Yet, when he dies, we will be obligated to pray for him. How is it different? Not trying to be a smart alec, I'm genuinely asking.

If the request had been to pray for Chester Bennington at the height of his career because he was leading souls to hell with his music, then it would've been different. But it would still have been strange to single him out for that, because Korn and Limp Bizkit (and "LOL" at the spelling of these band names) were doing the same thing. A blanket prayer that popular culture might get elevated above the current level of depravity would probably suffice.

Also, "pray for the pope" is a time-honored Catholic notion, whereas "pray for the purveryors of nü metal" would be something of a novelty (although certainly worthwhile, if the intention is for their conversion and / or that they cease and desist all nefarious music). It's a completely separate topic, but on a different thread we were discussing how if Pope Francis is really "leading more souls to hell than 50 Chester Bennington's and 2,000 Linkin Parks" then it's difficult to say that the Church hasn't defected. Obviously many posters disagreed, but I thought it was a good point.

Just for the record, though: I don't think certain souls shouldn't be prayed for. Praying for "all souls" is what I was arguing for. My "if / then" equation that you fixed earlier was granting the notion: if Chester Bennington is worth praying for, then so is every other soul who died the same day. That's why I thought praying the Requiem Aeternam for "all the faithful departed" was more tasteful than singling out a celebrity for special treatment.

I'm sorry, Pon, I missed your answer until last evening.

"I guess it would be different because Pope Francis at present is still alive." That is why I said, "Yet when he dies, we will be obligated to pray for him." I should have been more clear about my scenario assuming PF was dead.

I guess that for me anyway, it boils down to Mr. Bennington's death apparently meant something to Inquisitor, or he wouldn't have brought it up. No one is scouring the obituaries looking for celebrities to ask us to pray for. Nor do I think anyone is starting prayer threads for celebrities that they don't have a clue about. And please don't misunderstand me, I am not suggesting that that was your point Pon. I am suggesting that out of respect for Inquisitor, it doesn't harm anyone to say a quick prayer for this man. God will take that prayer and apply it where He deems best. If you don't think it's appropriate, you don't have to pray for him. There's no need for analysis into why or why not this man's soul should be prayed for. You either do it or you don't.

Off to check out this other thread.

Mono no aware · July 26, 2017, 08:22:13 AM

Quote from: dymphna17 on July 26, 2017, 05:30:43 AMI guess that for me anyway, it boils down to Mr. Bennington's death apparently meant something to Inquisitor, or he wouldn't have brought it up. No one is scouring the obituaries looking for celebrities to ask us to pray for. Nor do I think anyone is starting prayer threads for celebrities that they don't have a clue about. And please don't misunderstand me, I am not suggesting that that was your point Pon. I am suggesting that out of respect for Inquisitor, it doesn't harm anyone to say a quick prayer for this man. God will take that prayer and apply it where He deems best. If you don't think it's appropriate, you don't have to pray for him. There's no need for analysis into why or why not this man's soul should be prayed for. You either do it or you don't.

You're correct here, and I just want to say again that I wasn't suggesting anyone refuse to pray for Chester Bennington on the basis of me finding him a lame celebrity and bad musician. A prayer request is a prayer request and you either honor it or you don't. Giving it some more thought, it's possible that Inquisitor was a personal friend or relative of Chester Bennington, so it was presumptuous of me to assume automatically that the request was made out of an emotional attachment to a celebrity.

The point you raised about Pope Francis is interesting. I wonder if traditional Catholics would be obligated to pray for Francis upon his death. Dante placed Pope Boniface VIII in hell.

dymphna17 · July 26, 2017, 08:56:03 AM

Quote from: Pon de Replay on July 26, 2017, 08:22:13 AM
Quote from: dymphna17 on July 26, 2017, 05:30:43 AMI guess that for me anyway, it boils down to Mr. Bennington's death apparently meant something to Inquisitor, or he wouldn't have brought it up. No one is scouring the obituaries looking for celebrities to ask us to pray for. Nor do I think anyone is starting prayer threads for celebrities that they don't have a clue about. And please don't misunderstand me, I am not suggesting that that was your point Pon. I am suggesting that out of respect for Inquisitor, it doesn't harm anyone to say a quick prayer for this man. God will take that prayer and apply it where He deems best. If you don't think it's appropriate, you don't have to pray for him. There's no need for analysis into why or why not this man's soul should be prayed for. You either do it or you don't.

You're correct here, and I just want to say again that I wasn't suggesting anyone refuse to pray for Chester Bennington on the basis of me finding him a lame celebrity and bad musician. A prayer request is a prayer request and you either honor it or you don't. Giving it some more thought, it's possible that Inquisitor was a personal friend or relative of Chester Bennington, so it was presumptuous of me to assume automatically that the request was made out of an emotional attachment to a celebrity.

The point you raised about Pope Francis is interesting. I wonder if traditional Catholics would be obligated to pray for Francis upon his death. Dante placed Pope Boniface VIII in hell.

I understand now that you weren't suggesting to not pray for a lame celebrity and bad musician. Thank you for clearing that up for me.

I would think that as a legitimately elected Pope, as most believe any way, we would be obligated to pray for PF. Otherwise we risk the sin of presumption. Dante may know, but I sure as heck do not!