Theological Status of the Doctrine of Mary Mediatrix and Co-Redemptrix? Fr. G-L:

[Prayerful]

The old Emperor, a man of sound judgement, vetoed Rampolla as Pope. That's sufficient. Moreover, he showed himself foolish and aggressive in orchestrating a Papal condemnation in 1888 of the Plan of Campaign, a key stage in the Irish Land War. Rampolla's interventions were regarded with some scorn by the leading Irish bishops.

This thread has largely treated of 'Co-Redemptrix,' which an ambiguity to it, and not 'Mediatrix.'  Mediatrix is similar in a way in that some could see it as intruding on a function of Our Lord, but this could be an opportunity for good preaching of Octobri mense or Adiutricem populi of Leo XIII or Miserentissimus Redemptor and other writing which state how the consent and cooperation of Mary was necessary for the Son of God to accomplish His great design. Mary Mother of God brought forward our Redeemer, nourished and offered him as a victim on the Cross.

[Vetus Ordo]

I guess you don't believe in prophesies, not even those made by the Queen of Prophets, in apparitions that are fully Church-approved.

Not to speak for Maximilian here but apparitions are not a legitimate source from which true Apostolic teaching can be established.

[Non Nobis]

I guess you don't believe in prophesies, not even those made by the Queen of Prophets, in apparitions that are fully Church-approved.

Not to speak for Maximilian here but apparitions are not a legitimate source from which true Apostolic teaching can be established.

Xavier, I think the Church's approval means that we won't imperil our soul only because we believe that Mary truly appeared and said these things.  It doesn't guarantee that these things really happened, or that we must believe and insist that others must too. If we have a neighbor who is from all appearances very holy, we won't imperil our soul by believing he is truly holy in God's eyes. But it's not Apostolic truth and shouldn't be held with absolute certainty. And such private conclusions (even Fatima is a private revelation, since it is not from the Apostles) can be pushed too far. It's not always easy to say what is "too far"; it takes prudence and wisdom and the judgement of the Church.  But not even a judgement of the Church can result in a new public revelation. Public Revelation ended with the Apostles.

If one day the Church does definitely teach the title "Mary Mediatrix and Co-Redemptrix", it would be because the Church judges it to be implicit  in other doctrine, not a new public revelation from Our Lady.  The formal definitive judgement of the Church is guided by the Holy Ghost, who knows what titles are appropriate and when in history they might be given.

But I don't think it is wrong for us to consider whether the title is appropriate, and pray to the Holy Ghost to guide the Church on the matter. (Maybe this is what G-L does?)  We just can't assume our conclusions come from the Holy Ghost (or should be pushed on others) based only on a private revelation.

(I must admit that I haven't read this thread too thoroughly so I apologize if this is redundant or out of place).

[Xavier]

Non Nobis, the SSPX seminary in Argentina is called Our Lady Co-Redemptrix. Co-Redemptrix (equivalent terms are Reparatress, co-operator in our Redemption, etc) is absolutely traditional doctrine, please ask your SSPX Priest about it, and most likely Father will confirm it. Here is our Holy Father Pope St. Pius X, the Church confirmed what St. Alphonsus taught, in Ad Diem Illum, http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-x/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-x_enc_02021904_ad-diem-illum-laetissimum.html

"12. Moreover it was not only the prerogative of the Most Holy Mother to have furnished the material of His flesh to the Only Son of God, Who was to be born with human members (S. Bede Ven. L. Iv. in Luc. xl.), of which material should be prepared the Victim for the salvation of men; but hers was also the office of tending and nourishing that Victim, and at the appointed time presenting Him for the sacrifice. Hence that uninterrupted community of life and labors of the Son and the Mother, so that of both might have been uttered the words of the Psalmist"My life is consumed in sorrow and my years in groans" (Ps xxx., 11). When the supreme hour of the Son came, beside the Cross of Jesus there stood Mary His Mother, not merely occupied in contemplating the cruel spectacle, but rejoicing that her Only Son was offered for the salvation of mankind, and so entirely participating in His Passion, that if it had been possible she would have gladly borne all the torments that her Son bore (S. Bonav. 1. Sent d. 48, ad Litt. dub. 4). And from this community of will and suffering between Christ and Mary she merited to become most worthily the Reparatrix of the lost world (Eadmeri Mon. De Excellentia Virg. Mariae, c. 9) and Dispensatrix of all the gifts that Our Savior purchased for us by His Death and by His Blood."

St. Montfort in True Devotion had taught, "2. Mary's part in the sanctification of souls

22. The plan adopted by the three persons of the Blessed Trinity in the Incarnation, the first coming of Jesus Christ, is adhered to each day in an invisible manner throughout the Church and they will pursue it to the end of time until the last coming of Jesus Christ.

23. God the Father gathered all the waters together and called them the seas (maria). He gathered all his graces together and called them Mary (Maria). The great God has a treasury or storehouse full of riches in which he has enclosed all that is beautiful, resplendent, rare, and precious, even his own Son. This immense treasury is none other than Mary whom the saints call the "treasury of the Lord". From her fullness all men are made rich.

24. God the Son imparted to his mother all that he gained by his life and death, namely, his infinite merits and his eminent virtues. He made her the treasurer of all his Father had given him as heritage. Through her he applies his merits to his members and through her he transmits his virtues and distributes his graces. She is his mystical channel, his aqueduct, through which he causes his mercies to flow gently and abundantly.

25. God the Holy Spirit entrusted his wondrous gifts to Mary, his faithful spouse, and chose her as the dispenser of all he possesses, so that she distributes all his gifts and graces to whom she wills, as much as she wills, how she wills and when she wills. No heavenly gift is given to men which does not pass through her virginal hands. Such indeed is the will of God, who has decreed that we should have all things through Mary, so that, making herself poor and lowly, and hiding herself in the depths of nothingness during her whole life, she might be enriched, exalted and honoured by almighty God. Such are the views of the Church and the early Fathers." https://www.ewtn.com/library/Montfort/TRUEDEVO.HTM

The Encyclical given by Prayerful, Pope Pius XI in Miserentissimus Redemptor, is also worth reading."And this indeed we more especially and vehemently desire and confidently expect, that the just and merciful God who would have spared Sodom for the sake of ten just men, will much more be ready to spare the whole race of men, when He is moved by the humble petitions and happily appeased by the prayers of the community of the faithful praying together in union with Christ their Mediator and Head, in the name of all. And now lastly may the most benign Virgin Mother of God smile on this purpose and on these desires of ours; for since she brought forth for us Jesus our Redeemer, and nourished Him, and offered Him as a victim by the Cross, by her mystic union with Christ and His very special grace she likewise became and is piously called a reparatress. Trusting in her intercession with Christ, who whereas He is the "one mediator of God and men" (1 Timothy ii, 5), chose to make His Mother the advocate of sinners, and the minister and mediatress of grace, as an earnest of heavenly gifts and as a token of Our paternal affection we most lovingly impart the Apostolic Blessing to you, Venerable Brethren, and to all the flock committed to your care."

I will get back to the rest later. It is not, Non Nobis, that the Blessed Mother made some new revelation, but most likely that She foresaw that without Heaven's intervention, many theologians and faithful would fall into error (kind of like how The Child Jesus foresaw that without His intervention, the doctors disputing in the Temple when He was of age 12 would end in error) and therefore God sent us some heavenly helps to better understand this doctrine already revealed in Scripture and Tradition, and repeatedly taught by the Popes in their ordinary Magisterium. Recall that, in Ven. Mary of Agreda's book, Mystical City of God, given by God supernaturally, theological proofs of the sacred dogma of the Immaculate Conception (which was not yet defined) were so abundant and so forceful in that work that, mainly for that reason, the Jansenists and others hated it. The Holy Spirit guides the Church in many ways, through the Papal Magisterium through which He speaks to us, through the Saints He raises up (like St. Padre Pio and St. Maximillian Maria Kolbe) so that we can know the time for the definition has come etc. Do you think it significant that St. Padre Pio, after many years of coredemptive suffering with Jesus and Mary, told us, "Now I seem to be penetrating what was the martyrdom of our most beloved Mother (...). Oh, if all people would but penetrate this martyrdom! Who could succeed in suffering with this, yes, our dear Coredemptrix? Who would refuse her the good title of Queen of Martyrs?" - it is the clear teaching of the Doctors and Saints that the Martyrdom of Mary exceeded that of all other Martyrs save that of Jesus Christ, King of Martyrs, and our High Priest and sacrificial Victim, alone. This doctrine is still too insufficiently understood among us Catholics.

At Vatican II, many traditional Fathers wanted a dogmatic definition of Mary Co-Redemptrix and Mediatrix of All Graces, but liberals and modernists opposed it for reasons of (false) ecumenism, even those who knew the doctrine was true. Do you think heaven would have been pleased with that? See also: http://fsspx.org/en/our-lady-co-redemptrix-seminary

[Non Nobis]

Xavier, yes on reflection I see that not only are we allowed to believe these things about Our Lady and her titles, but that doing so may be most reasonable and profitable to our souls; but it is still true that they are not officially dogma. There are churches called Our Lady of Fatima too and we ought to believe in her under that title too; but it is not a heresy to believe otherwise.  The title the Immaculate Conception was most rightly and with the greatest spiritual benefit believed in, but it was not officially known to be dogma until it was defined. 

But it might have been audacious to totally deny these other truths about Our Lady after they were proclaimed by the Church at large, and carefully considered by theologians, even before the Church solemnly defined them. It seems reasonable to think that there might have been churches named after the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption of Our Lady even before the doctrines were defined.   So maybe the titles considered in this thread should be at least believed with some level of certainty. We can hope and pray that (God willing) the Church itself (even beyond the SSPX) will officially declare the truth of faith expressed in these titles, if indeed they are true.

Really, based on what I've read (including all that you have written) I'm inclined to think that these titles are quite appropriate, and that the time for more solemn definition may be coming. Remember that the heavenly intervention that we can believe in with absolute certainty comes from the Holy Ghost through the Church. Our Lady is not the direct spokesperson of the Holy Ghost, especially through apparitions that are not themselves dogmatically certain.  But the Holy Ghost can influence the theologians of the Church however He chooses.

I wish I was more disciplined in reading and better at absorbing, considering, and retaining all that has been said in this thread, by you and others, and all that St. Louis de Montfort and others have said.  I could also consider the theological issues more deeply, but think that is over my head for now.

God bless you.