Change from mortal sin to grace

Started by Michael, May 15, 2024, 08:07:45 AM

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Michael

Fr. Rooney was banned from Fr. Kimel's comments [https://afkimel.wordpress.com/2024/05/11/two-briefly-stated-arguments-in-favor-of-universal-salvation/#comment-43846], so I figured I'd post this here in search of a Catholic answer:

Why couldn't it be the case that someone in a state of mortal sin will inevitably repent? Why must the change from a state of mortal sin to one of grace be indeterministic (not necessitated; not entailed by antecedent causes)? You're familiar with the view that at least some free choices could be determined so long as there was a prior choice by the agent that was undetermined.

james03

Quote from: Luke 13And a certain man said to him: Lord, are they few that are saved? But he said to them  24 Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able.  25 But when the master of the house shall be gone in, and shall shut the door, you shall begin to stand without, and knock at the door, saying: Lord, open to us. And he answering, shall say to you: I know you not, whence you are.

Quote from: Matt 22Then the king said to the waiters: Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.  14 For many are called, but few are chosen

Quote from: Matt 2016 So shall the last be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen

Quote from: Matt 7Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat  14 How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

Michael


james03

As far as Catholic teaching, we consult the Athanasian Creed:

Quote1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

....

Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.  30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man. ....

At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
42. and shall give account of their own works.
43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.

QuoteWhy couldn't it be the case that someone in a state of mortal sin will inevitably repent?

Because they love hating and rejecting God too much.  They are slaves to their sin and the devil is their god.  Spend a few minutes reviewing the hatred, lies, ugliness, and evil everywhere in media and then confess thy folly.

QuoteWhy must the change from a state of mortal sin to one of grace be indeterministic (not necessitated; not entailed by antecedent causes)?

Because it is based on MERCY, which is freely given.  God owes nothing but damnation, hell fire, and a big flaming comet upon those who hate Him.  In a sense, it is deterministic, based on God's secret purpose.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

Michael Wilson

Quote from: Michael on May 15, 2024, 08:07:45 AMWhy couldn't it be the case that someone in a state of mortal sin will inevitably repent? Why must the change from a state of mortal sin to one of grace be indeterministic (not necessitated; not entailed by antecedent causes)? You're familiar with the view that at least some free choices could be determined so long as there was a prior choice by the agent that was undetermined.
Those in mortal sin have the grace of God to repent; if they fail to do so, it is because they have rejected said grace.
I believe Catholic doctrine teaches that man has a free will and his choices are not pre-determined. However it is also true that our sins can become impediments to our conversion by weakening our wills and inclining them to these sins. That is why we must pray for the conversion of sinners, as they are in a bad situation.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers