Mass and little ones ... what did our forefathers do?

[Chestertonian]

You'd like the SSPX in NYC.  Zero children

[OCLittleFlower]

You'd like the SSPX in NYC.  Zero children

Probably would, tbh.  A lot of kid noise (especially the shrieking) is literally a migraine trigger for me.  I almost always get at least a mild headache from other people's kids at Mass.

[Chestertonian]

You'd like the SSPX in NYC.  Zero children

Probably would, tbh.  A lot of kid noise (especially the shrieking) is literally a migraine trigger for me.  I almost always get at least a mild headache from other people's kids at Mass.

My wife said it was eerie being at a mass with no children other than her son.  No children for him to befriend and play with, no religious education,etc
She takes them to easterm rite now and there are more children and they have CCD

[OCLittleFlower]

You'd like the SSPX in NYC.  Zero children

Probably would, tbh.  A lot of kid noise (especially the shrieking) is literally a migraine trigger for me.  I almost always get at least a mild headache from other people's kids at Mass.

My wife said it was eerie being at a mass with no children other than her son.  No children for him to befriend and play with, no religious education,etc
She takes them to easterm rite now and there are more children and they have CCD

We live too far for much of that anyway.  *shrug*

What I wouldn't give for a quiet Mass with less kid issues.  I'd much rather have the only children there than be surrounded by other people's screaming kids.  It's less bad than the NO was (I wasn't able to consistently attend Mass in my NO days, at least not once I moved away from home to a parish with more kids, because the migraines were too bad).  There is at least *some* respect in our local TLM community, but I think a lot of people with kids become like the man who no longer hears his own dripping kitchen sink because he has grown used to it.  But to people without kids or who have older kids (or, frankly, just have kids who manage to be quiet and still during Mass), it's noticeable. 

[Chestertonian]

i can sort of empathize because i am hypersensitive to noises somewhat, although children playing doesn't bother me.  I wouldnt have lasted long in the teaching field if it did.  it's more ambient stuff like clocks that tick loudly, the sound of my own ventilator (they keep saying I will get used to it, it has been months) people chewing (thankfully that isn't an issue at Mass)

I do know that my wife is ultra self conscious about children and noise to the point where as soon as my older son made one too many peeps, he was whisked out and we went to the back.  usually the noise made by taking him out was louder and more distracting than the noise he was making at the time.  so for a lot of parents it's a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils....Taking them which might escalate the noise level or putting up with low level noise  There are people who glare in your generation for the slightest little noise.   occasionally my equipment would alarm during mass which would earn us a few glares too.  I ws usually worse than the kids. 

I can't nlame someone for being hypersensitive to sound nor would I blame someone for being acclimated to sounds they hear on a regular basis.  We can't control how our brains process sensory input.    Charity is important on both sides.  I'd do anything to be able to attend Mass,period.  Even if there are smelly homeless people sleeping in the pews and 60 year old men who sing O Sanctissima 20 decibels louder than everyone else

ultimately, the SSPX mass without children is kind of odd.  It's like a bay with no fish swimming in it and no seaweed.  Or as my son says, "lifey stuff."    It's nice to swim and not have your feet brush against critters or come out of the water with seaweed in your hair.  But it's also a sign that something is out of balance with the ecosystem.

[MundaCorMeum]

You'd like the SSPX in NYC.  Zero children

Probably would, tbh.  A lot of kid noise (especially the shrieking) is literally a migraine trigger for me.  I almost always get at least a mild headache from other people's kids at Mass.

perhaps this is a particular suffering Our Lord gave you to offer up for the good of souls.  The thing is, when we expect people to be considerate of our own particular needs (how can I possibly know if my kids will set off a migraine for someone, anyway?), it goes a long way to do the same for theirs.  Also, the church holds children in very high regard, and we are a pro-life people (or, we are supposed to be, anyway).  Our Lord admonished the apostles for trying to shoo the seemingly annoying children away.  He told us that unless we be like children, we will not enter Heaven.  So, I think it's important to be patient and understanding with families who are trying their best to teach their kids to behave at Mass.  Sometimes, they won't be perfect angels, and other people just have to bear that burden.  They are kids, so there will be a learning curve.  Pray for them to have the grace to stay firm and keep their hand to the plow.  It's really hard with a pew full of children, and every exhausting; even when parents are very much aware of their duty to keep their kids well-behaved and quiet at Mass.  I know this will sound prideful, but I am saying it to confirm that yes, it is possible to have a large, well-mannered family at church.  Except for the baby, who I stay in the back with to keep distraction out of the pew, all 6 of our other kids are quiet and relatively still at church (they younger ones have their days, but for the most part, they behave).  People compliment us often at how well-behaved our kids are.  My husband and I put in the blood, sweat, and tears to teach them to be so, and the kids are learning.  I apologize again for sounding prideful.  Kids will probably be a disaster at Mass today for that   

On the flip side, I completely understand the aggravation at parents who let their children run wild at Mass (and restaurants....drives me nuts.  Sit in the chair, behave, and eat without acting like a crazy person).  That is ridiculous in my opinion, and not tolerated with my children.  I agree, too, that toys and food are not for Mass.  Like I said, my only exception is that brief period where I am trying to train a nursing baby to get out of the habit of nursing in Mass.  I think it's cruel for me to be holding my child and refuse to nurse her at a young age, without offering her some kind of distraction.  It's confusing to the child, and they are too young to reason with.  And until I know for sure that the child can make it through Mass without nursing, I'm not passing her off to her Dad, because it's a big distraction to be passing a child back and forth through out Mass.  So, I will give her cheerios, one at a time, and a bottle of water.  She doesn't get free reign with it, I don't do it in the pew, and I clean up any mess if there is one.  I stay in the back with her, in the little foyer at the base of the choir.  That way, no one can see me, so I'm (hopefully) not bothering anyone.  If she gets noisy - happy noise or mad noise, we step out of church.  I agree with diaduit that our duty is to our children, and sometimes that means sacrificing our own preference for perfect attention at prayer/Mass.  I am with Laus that it aggravates me to see parents with children crawling all over the place, playing and making a raucous, while Mom and Dad just kneel with their eyes closed, ignoring everything.  Seriously, do something about your kid.  It's not a problem that kids don't know how to act; it's a problem when parents do nothing to teach, correct, and train them.  Practice at home, if you need to. 

[dymphnaw]

There was a woman at Mass yesterday with several children and she was overwhelmed. One or more of them screamed and ran around for most of  Mass. The woman  looked exhausted and unkempt.  I wanted to tell her that she didn't have to put herself through all this. It is perfectly licit to stay home with the baby until he reaches the age of reason where you can teach him to be quiet.

[Chestertonian]

You'd like the SSPX in NYC.  Zero children

Probably would, tbh.  A lot of kid noise (especially the shrieking) is literally a migraine trigger for me.  I almost always get at least a mild headache from other people's kids at Mass.

perhaps this is a particular suffering Our Lord gave you to offer up for the good of souls.  The thing is, when we expect people to be considerate of our own particular needs (how can I possibly know if my kids will set off a migraine for someone, anyway?), it goes a long way to do the same for theirs.  Also, the church holds children in very high regard, and we are a pro-life people (or, we are supposed to be, anyway).  Our Lord admonished the apostles for trying to shoo the seemingly annoying children away.  He told us that unless we be like children, we will not enter Heaven.  So, I think it's important to be patient and understanding with families who are trying their best to teach their kids to behave at Mass.  Sometimes, they won't be perfect angels, and other people just have to bear that burden.  They are kids, so there will be a learning curve.  Pray for them to have the grace to stay firm and keep their hand to the plow.  It's really hard with a pew full of children, and every exhausting; even when parents are very much aware of their duty to keep their kids well-behaved and quiet at Mass.  I know this will sound prideful, but I am saying it to confirm that yes, it is possible to have a large, well-mannered family at church.  Except for the baby, who I stay in the back with to keep distraction out of the pew, all 6 of our other kids are quiet and relatively still at church (they younger ones have their days, but for the most part, they behave).  People compliment us often at how well-behaved our kids are.  My husband and I put in the blood, sweat, and tears to teach them to be so, and the kids are learning.  I apologize again for sounding prideful.  Kids will probably be a disaster at Mass today for that   

On the flip side, I completely understand the aggravation at parents who let their children run wild at Mass (and restaurants....drives me nuts.  Sit in the chair, behave, and eat without acting like a crazy person).  That is ridiculous in my opinion, and not tolerated with my children.  I agree, too, that toys and food are not for Mass.  Like I said, my only exception is that brief period where I am trying to train a nursing baby to get out of the habit of nursing in Mass.  I think it's cruel for me to be holding my child and refuse to nurse her at a young age, without offering her some kind of distraction.  It's confusing to the child, and they are too young to reason with.  And until I know for sure that the child can make it through Mass without nursing, I'm not passing her off to her Dad, because it's a big distraction to be passing a child back and forth through out Mass.  So, I will give her cheerios, one at a time, and a bottle of water.  She doesn't get free reign with it, I don't do it in the pew, and I clean up any mess if there is one.  I stay in the back with her, in the little foyer at the base of the choir.  That way, no one can see me, so I'm (hopefully) not bothering anyone.  If she gets noisy - happy noise or mad noise, we step out of church.  I agree with diaduit that our duty is to our children, and sometimes that means sacrificing our own preference for perfect attention at prayer/Mass.  I am with Laus that it aggravates me to see parents with children crawling all over the place, playing and making a raucous, while Mom and Dad just kneel with their eyes closed, ignoring everything.  Seriously, do something about your kid.  It's not a problem that kids don't know how to act; it's a problem when parents do nothing to teach, correct, and train them.  Practice at home, if you need to.

you do a husband who can help out though.  It is different when you are on your own with small children. 

[MundaCorMeum]

Exceptions don't make the rule.  But, as an anecdote, a friend of mine has 5 children, ages 13 to 2.  Husband is not in the picture.  She faithfully brings her kids to Mass week after week after week.  She doesn't occupy them with food or toys.  They sit quietly and pay attention, or look at Catholic picture books (younger ones).  She stands behind the kids in the back pew with the two year old in a carrier.  Zero help from her husband.  So, yes, it can still be done.  If you are going to bring kids to Mass, teach them how to behave, allowing for mistakes and a learning curve.

[Chestertonian]

Exceptions don't make the rule.  But, as an anecdote, a friend of mine has 5 children, ages 13 to 2.  Husband is not in the picture.  She faithfully brings her kids to Mass week after week after week.  She doesn't occupy them with food or toys.  They sit quietly and pay attention, or look at Catholic picture books (younger ones).  She stands behind the kids in the back pew with the two year old in a carrier.  Zero help from her husband.  So, yes, it can still be done

It can be done by her.  "I know this lady that does t all" doesn't prove that everyone can do it all.  The fact that she can do it with her children doesn't mean that every single parent can do it.

[MundaCorMeum]

Exceptions don't make the rule.  But, as an anecdote, a friend of mine has 5 children, ages 13 to 2.  Husband is not in the picture.  She faithfully brings her kids to Mass week after week after week.  She doesn't occupy them with food or toys.  They sit quietly and pay attention, or look at Catholic picture books (younger ones).  She stands behind the kids in the back pew with the two year old in a carrier.  Zero help from her husband.  So, yes, it can still be done

It can be done by her.  "I know this lady that does t all" doesn't prove that everyone can do it all.  The fact that she can do it with her children doesn't mean that every single parent can do it.

I like how you used quotes for something I never said  .  She doesn't do it all, and neither are her kids perfect angels 100% of the time - in Mass or otherwise.  I've already said that it's important to be patient and understanding with parents who are working to teach their kids to behave.  But, it's unkind to not teach your kids right behavior.  Allowing them to do whatever they please in church is doing no one any favors.  And, yes, if she can do it, then it is proof that it's possible.  Otherwise, it would be impossible, and she wouldn't be doing it.

[Chestertonian]

I was paraphrasingI just really don't like the "I know someone who has these extraordinary circumstances and they still managed to XYZ" just make me feel like a failure.  sometimes we can't live up to other peoples standards.  I have never argued for letting children run wild in church but I've personally encountered childlesspeople who are unwilling to forgive a single peep from a child. Si it can seem like you're under a microscope at mass because every little slip up is noted and you don't want to be "those people" about whom people write articles in catholic blogs with the 1 year old throwing pacifiers into the middle of the aisle (Apparently my son did this at mass today)

[diaduit]

I'm not really paying attention to the arguments put forth in this thread because I don't have kids. But I am sick and tired of parents bringing like 900 toys for their one kid to Mass. You know what's worse than a crying kid? Some bloody kid playing with his toys all over the wooden pews, making train noises etc. Hate to break it to you, Mom and Dad, but that kid is more distracting than if he was just crying.

OR..ugh...parents who just let their little kids crawl, walk etc all over Church. Like yeah, kids are inquisitive, I get it. But I don't want your 3 year old LITERALLY crawling on me during Mass, while you're ignoring it pretending you're deep in prayer. Man...it's happened a couple of times and luckily for that Dad we were in a venue that doesn't lend itself towards swearing or punching because I was one bolt away from going loco. Seriously. Get a hold of your kids people.

The thing that makes it all the more worse is we have a massive crying room for parents/families. USE IT!

Why is it kids are drawn to the church grump
Or you smell of cheerios. ...either way you've got something that attracts the little gremlins 😁

[diaduit]

There was a woman at Mass yesterday with several children and she was overwhelmed. One or more of them screamed and ran around for most of  Mass. The woman  looked exhausted and unkempt.  I wanted to tell her that she didn't have to put herself through all this. It is perfectly licit to stay home with the baby until he reaches the age of reason where you can teach him to be quiet.

I suspect if you did it could have tipped her over the edge. While you mean well it could have sounded in her head that she wasn't wanted there.

We have one of the worst contrary spinster you will ever meet. Horrible horrible horrible,  any tiny little peep out of a baby she does this turn of her head to glare ....I call her the exorcist woman as I'd swear she does a 360 😁 one time I tried to look down until she had her glare dobe,  well I'm not joking 5 mins later I looked up from the kneeler and she was still in position like an owl for a glare, she wasn't giving up until I'd seen it. Ah well what can you do but laugh. (My lo was actually behaving well)

[aquinas138]

You'd like the SSPX in NYC.  Zero children

Hm. That bodes well for the future.