Civil War Started?

[james03]

Is it possible that they are idiots?

Yes.  It could be this all got started when idiot Chinese let the virus get out because they were idiots.  If that is the case then there was no plan, just neurotic idiots running around being idiots.

We know that COVID was man-made.  It is documented that the lab purchased the exact enzymes needed to make the artificial sequences found in the COVID virus.  The open question is how it got out.

My personal opinion on probabilities is 60% intentional / 40% idiocy. 

[Greg]

It's pretty idiotic to do gain of function work on viruses in the first place given that ALL labs have had security failures.  It's playing with fire but just the sort of arrogant crap that scientists do because they love to meddle and play God.

It seems highly likely to me that at the most senior level that the USA and China have worked together to manipulate bat coronaviruses then when one has been released by accident they have made huge effort to cover up the man-made nature of the virus and work on a vaccine as a form of distraction and to paint themselves as heroes.

Being both powerful countries they simply mutually agree to not reveal their co-operation and shut-down anyone who mentions it hoping that with the vaccine they can turn it around and have enough time pass that there is no public desire to investigate where they virus comes from.

I've no idea how high this goes up in the US government.  But there does not really need to be an organised conspiracy, because it is obvious to everyone high up in the governments of China and the USA that if they were to admit they had produced the virus in the first place they would be on the hook for trillions of dollars in compensation and their reputations would be mud.

It would be the greatest piece of malfeasance for the last 1000 years.

[awkward customer]

I don't believe the 70% figure either; they lied about everything else, why not the number of vaxxed. Nobody practically in Africa was vaxxed.

Have a look at this website, Michael.  Several African countries are over 40% vaccinated.  Then look at India, with over 60% vaccinated.  Some countries in South America are more vaccinated than Europe.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Dr John Campbell trusts this website, based at Oxford University.

Why wouldn't they vaccinate the world and not just America, Europe, Australia etc?

[awkward customer]

They very clearly had an objective to get near 100% of populations vaccinated.  They made this VERY clear......

...... Covid was a failure, if you judge it by the stated goals they had when it began, which they were pretty clear about.

They vaccinated 70 per cent of the world's population.

Saying at the start that the aim is 100% vaccinated is just a tactic to push people into compliance.  They must have known it would be impossible.

I'd say that 70% of the world's population taking the vax, and they ALL deliver the spike protein, was a huge success.

No way are 70% vaccinated.

Africa is hardly vaccinated at all.  Most Russians and Ukrainians have fake vaccine certificates.

In western countries that many are vaccinated sure.  In Australia probably 90%.  But there are a huge number of countries where the doctor will certify you for $20 and there are a lot of people who if they can get the benefits of a vaccine certificate without being vaccinated will simply pay.

Add all of the white Europeans in the world up and you have 1 billion people.  They are 70% vaccinated but there is no way the other 7 billion people are.

Why won't you, and others, believe that 70% of the world is vaccinated?  I don't understand it. 

Instances of corruption you have come across mean little against a global vaccination campaign.

Why on earth would they only vaccinate white people?  If they want to reduce the world's population, they're going to have kill an awful lot of non-white people too.

Browse through this website, which is highly rated and trusted by Dr John Campbell by the way.  You can look up individual countries and find their vaccination rates.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Look at India, Nigeria, Brazil, Thailand, Pakistan.

If you don't trust this website, then don't trust Dr John Campbell.

[awkward customer]

Here's another website, this time John Hopkins University. You can click on countries and see the vaccination rate.  The data only goes as far as October 2023.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/region/nigeria

Looks like Brazil was 80% vaccinated in 2023.  Unless they're lying and are really only vaccinating Americans and Europeans etc.

[Severinus]

The website's info is only as good as the national data, and I assume that second and third world nations don't have sound data. In many respects even first world covid data should all be binned (test accuracy, case numbers, mortalities). Uptake rate is simpler to track, though.

I don't know of any good reason why vax rates should be corrected way down. I'm aware of some anecdotal evidence for fairly widespread vax cert faking in the US, but I would guesstimate the maximum upper boundary for that at 5%. It's reasonable to assume that the opportunity for faking is greater in less highly regulated countries, though I'd be interested in hearing any good reasons for why the propensity would be higher.

[awkward customer]

The website's info is only as good as the national data, and I assume that second and third world nations don't have sound data.

Why do you assume that?  They know how many injections they give and they know the size of their populations.  Besides,  Western agencies have been all over the developing world with their vaccination campaigns for decades now.  These are well documented.  India is well advanced in the digitalisation of its population and has plenty of billionaires to help fund the process.  These countries are perfectly capable of rolling out mass vaccination campaigns.

[Severinus]

The website's info is only as good as the national data, and I assume that second and third world nations don't have sound data.

Why do you assume that?  They know how many injections they give and they know the size of their populations.  Besides,  Western agencies have been all over the developing world with their vaccination campaigns for decades now.  These are well documented.  India is well advanced in the digitalisation of its population and has plenty of billionaires to help fund the process.  These countries are perfectly capable of rolling out mass vaccination campaigns.

I simply assume that if they were capable of 1st world data collection they wouldn't be 2nd and 3rd world countries, they would be 1st world, and that if they were perfectly capable of rolling out mass vaccination campaigns, the data you quoted would show an upwards of 70% uptake rate as it does in the 1st world, rather than 35ish. There are clearly, and fortunately for them, relatively large inefficiencies in their organizational capacity. Anyway, I was kind of agreeing with you overall, just with the caveat that I figure their data set is of even worse quality.

[Greg]

I don't believe the 70% figure either; they lied about everything else, why not the number of vaxxed. Nobody practically in Africa was vaxxed.

Have a look at this website, Michael.  Several African countries are over 40% vaccinated.  Then look at India, with over 60% vaccinated.  Some countries in South America are more vaccinated than Europe.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Dr John Campbell trusts this website, based at Oxford University.

Why wouldn't they vaccinate the world and not just America, Europe, Australia etc?

Because in those places you get the same bonus for lying to the WHO about how many people you vaccinated as you do for vaccinating them.  Without the hassle of doing the work.

If you could buy fake vaccine certificates in the UK, which is one of the least corrupt countries in the world when it comes to faking medical records, then you could certainly buy them everywhere else.

[awkward customer]

Because in those places you get the same bonus for lying to the WHO about how many people you vaccinated as you do for vaccinating them.  Without the hassle of doing the work.

If you could buy fake vaccine certificates in the UK, which is one of the least corrupt countries in the world when it comes to faking medical records, then you could certainly buy them everywhere else.

So what if a few people manage to get fake vaccine certificates.  The question is - how many?

A handful maybe? 

People here seem unreasonably reluctant to believe that this could have happened, that 'they' could have vaccinated 70% of the world's population.  Especially since so many of those people live in the 'third world'. 

It's like believing the Russian army would be defeated in no time or that Iran can be bombed with impunity.  Because they're not nearly as advanced as us!!!!  What!! Check it out.  India is digital ID central and India claims to have vaccinated over 60% of its population.  Are they lying?  Are they too corrupt to be believed?

Iran could clear the Middle East of US bases, but they don't want a war. Their drone technology is way ahead of anything in the West. 

But how could that be?  They're practically third world!!

 

[awkward customer]

I simply assume that if they were capable of 1st world data collection they wouldn't be 2nd and 3rd world countries, they would be 1st world, and that if they were perfectly capable of rolling out mass vaccination campaigns, the data you quoted would show an upwards of 70% uptake rate as it does in the 1st world, rather than 35ish. There are clearly, and fortunately for them, relatively large inefficiencies in their organizational capacity. Anyway, I was kind of agreeing with you overall, just with the caveat that I figure their data set is of even worse quality.

Okay, fair enough, you were kind of agreeing with me.

But this first world/third world distinction is becoming outdated very quickly, if it isn't outdated already.

Besides, the vaccination campaign in Africa started much layer than elsewhere and is still ongoing.   And then you've got to look at the numbers.  60% of the population of India vaccinated means 600 million people.  That's more than the combined populations of Europe and the US.

[Greg]

In Ukraine nobody I know got a real vaccine.  They only people I have heard of who did were old people 70 plus years.  They paid people 35 USD electronically to be vaccinated so they just paid a 25 dollar bribe and were unvaccinated and up 10 dollars.

Same was true in Bulgaria.

[Severinus]

In Ukraine nobody I know got a real vaccine.  They only people I have heard of who did were old people 70 plus years.  They paid people 35 USD electronically to be vaccinated so they just paid a 25 dollar bribe and were unvaccinated and up 10 dollars.

Same was true in Bulgaria.

How many people in the Ukraine and Bulgaria do you know? Is there a selection bias in the type of people you know (e.g. anti-establishment types)? What's your guesstimate for the % who have fake certs there?

[Greg]

Not really. I know most through work.  I am not a member of the Bulgarian conspiracy theorists club or the Ukrainian Antivaxxers society.

[diaduit]

I do believe their target was mainly white Christian Europeans and the vaccination rate was a huge success in that regard.  As far as Africa is concerned, the poorer class it seems rejected the jab but those white collar workers did take it.  The African immigrants here in Ireland took it without blinking, my husband says they are so used to being jabbed from babies onwards that it didn't even occur to them to question it. 
The Eastern Europeans I know didn't take it but even in that group there was quite a number of them who did.  I believe the 70%.