Author Topic: Reading the Bible Fun Thoughts Thread  (Read 3165 times)

Offline TerrorDæmonum

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Slave
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2022, 11:46:01 AM »
I am not dreaming when I say that if you translate "slave" across the board in all contexts from the word "servant", you are daring to rewrite scripture.

The Greek and Latin texts which form the basis for translations all use the word "slave". Different translations can use other words for literary reasons, but the word is the same as "slave".

δούλος and servus mean "slave" and can be translated as such (and usually are).

"Christians must be either the slaves of the devil or the slaves of Jesus Christ". Which are you?

Offline TerrorDæmonum

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Slave to Christ
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2022, 11:52:43 AM »
Greater love has no man than this, that he give up his life for his slaves?

Exactly, we know what Tradition is by what it is not.  And, that is not what Jesus said.

Right, He said:

Quote from: John 15:20
Mementote sermonis mei, quem ego dixi vobis : non est servus major domino suo. Si me persecuti sunt, et vos persequentur; si sermonem meum servaverunt, et vestrum servabunt.

It is the same discourse. He said we are His "friends" if we do what He commands us! This is why the slavery to Christ is voluntary.

It is our purpose:

Quote from: Baltimore Catechism
Q. 126. What do we mean by the "end of man"?

A. By the "end of man" we mean the purpose for which he was created: namely, to know, love, and serve God.




« Last Edit: January 31, 2022, 11:54:39 AM by Pæniteo »
 
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Offline Severinus

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Re: Reading the Bible Fun Thoughts Thread
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2022, 12:17:44 PM »
Our Slave Master, who art in Heaven?
 

Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Reading the Bible Fun Thoughts Thread
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2022, 12:17:51 PM »

I wouldn't dream of rewriting either Scripture or great literature.


Scripture says "and your young men shall dream dreams".  Women aren't the "dreamers" Miriam.  Women are the ones that "dare".  I am not dreaming when I say that if you translate "slave" across the board in all contexts from the word "servant", you are daring to rewrite scripture.

I’m not doing anything “across the board,” Philip. Rather, it is you who are extending a metaphor inappropriately, out of context. No one in this thread asserted that Jesus Christ called humanity “slaves.” This is a straw man, as well as other logical fallacies. You are trying to disprove spiritual advice from a premier saint of the Catholic Church by asserting that you have superior understanding of what Paul must have meant by particular terms he used, and that your private interpretation can exceed the authority of (pre-V2) understanding of Pauline and de Montfort metaphors for the attitude of submission of one’s will to the Will of God and the imitation of Christ’s obedience to the will of His Father.
 
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Offline TerrorDæmonum

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Slave of Christ
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2022, 12:21:56 PM »
Our Slave Master, who art in Heaven?

If you wish to discuss the topic, do so. That form of rhetoric is most ill-suited for rational discourse. As for God, we owe God absolute obedience in all things.

If you want to see previous discussions, consider this one:

Quote from: True Devotion to Mary
These words of the Holy Spirit show that Jesus is the sole source and must be the sole end of all our good works, and that we must serve him not just as paid servants but as slaves of love. Let me explain what I mean.

There are two ways of belonging to another person and being subject to his authority. One is by ordinary service and the other is by slavery. And so we must use the terms "servant" and "slave". Ordinary service in Christian countries is when a man is employed to serve another for a certain length of time at a wage which is fixed or agreed upon. When a man is totally dependent on another for life, and must serve his master without expecting any wages or recompense, when he is treated just like a beast of the field over which the owner has the right of life and death, then it is slavery.

Now there are three kinds of slavery; natural slavery, enforced slavery, and voluntary slavery. All creatures are slaves of God in the first sense, for "the earth and its fullness belong to the Lord". The devils and the damned are slaves in the second sense. The saints in heaven and the just on earth are slaves in the third sense. Voluntary slavery is the most perfect of all three states, for by it we give the greatest glory to God, who looks into the heart and wants it to be given to him. Is he not indeed called the God of the heart or of the loving will? For by this slavery we freely choose God and his service before all things, even if we were not by our very nature obliged to do so.

There is a world of difference between a servant and a slave.

...

No other human state involves belonging more completely to another than slavery. Among Christian peoples, nothing makes a person belong more completely to Jesus and his holy Mother than voluntary slavery. Our Lord himself gave us the example of this when out of love for us he "took the form of a slave". Our Lady gave us the same example when she called herself the handmaid or slave of the Lord. The Apostle considered it an honour to be called "slave of Christ". Several times in Holy Scripture, Christians are referred to as "slaves of Christ".

Granting this, I say that we must belong to Jesus and serve him not just as hired servants but as willing slaves who, moved by generous love, commit themselves to his service after the manner of slaves for the honour of belonging to him. Before we were baptized we were the slaves of the devil, but baptism made us the slaves of Jesus. Christians must be either the slaves of the devil or the slaves of Jesus Christ.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2022, 12:27:21 PM by Pæniteo »
 
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Offline TerrorDæmonum

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Domine, nos servi tui
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2022, 12:32:22 PM »
From the traditional Roman Rite, we call ourselves slaves of the Lord:

Quote
Unde et mémores, Dómine, nos
servi tui
, sed et plebs tua sancta,
ejúsdem Christi Fílii tui Dómini nostri
tam beátæ passiónis, nec non et ab
ínferis resurrectiónis, sed et in cælos
gloriósæ ascensiónis: offérimus
præcláræ majestáti tuæ de tuis donis,
ac datis, hóstiam puram, hóstiam
sanctam, hóstiam immaculátam,
Panem sanctum vitæ ætérnæ, et
Cálicem salútis perpétuæ.

We only "dare to say" Our Father because of Christ's commands:

Quote
Præcéptis salutáribus
móniti, et divína institutióne formáti,
audémus dícere:

Pater noster...

Offline TerrorDæmonum

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Domine, nos servi tui
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2022, 12:33:56 PM »
Those who resist this must take notice of our options:

Christians must be either the slaves of the devil or the slaves of Jesus Christ.


Offline coffeeandcigarette

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Re: Reading the Bible Fun Thoughts Thread
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2022, 12:51:32 PM »
If anyone cares, I think the OP was a great idea and really neat! I would love an ongoing chronological scripture discussion in the forum! So maybe if everyone could stop this bickering we could enjoy that.
 
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Offline TerrorDæmonum

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Involved
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2022, 01:02:40 PM »
So maybe if everyone could stop this bickering we could enjoy that.

Are you aware of the context? Are you aware of the OP's views on matters?

Do you think jumping in without contextual understanding and telling others what to do makes sense? You are now a part of the "bickering" and you have apparently picked a side. Did you mean to do that?

If you want to be on the side of heretics and blasphemers, that is your call, but if you did not examine the context of this discussion, you might want to think about exactly what is being discussed before dismissing it as "bickering". Your posting on the forum is not privileged: you are a poster making comments just like us.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2022, 01:04:29 PM by Pæniteo »
 
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Offline Severinus

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Re: Reading the Bible Fun Thoughts Thread
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2022, 01:40:46 PM »
If anyone cares, I think the OP was a great idea and really neat!

I don't mind hearing people's personal thoughts on scripture passages either, whether Philip's, yours, Paeniteo's, or those of any other poster here. I don't see how laymen seeking to gain and share personal insight from Scripture reading could be construed as a non-Catholic activity, so long as it is done with a Catholic rule of faith. It's the opposite, in my opinion, and I think if Catholics are to regain a mystical ferment it will have to involve engaging more deeply in subjective (too often thoughtlessly levied as an insult) activities like lectio divina.
 
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Offline TerrorDæmonum

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Blasphemers United
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2022, 03:05:37 PM »
If anyone cares, I think the OP was a great idea and really neat!

I don't mind hearing people's personal thoughts on scripture passages either, whether Philip's, yours, Paeniteo's, or those of any other poster here.
I see he has found some allies.

Quote
I don't see how laymen seeking to gain and share personal insight from Scripture reading could be construed as a non-Catholic activity, so long as it is done with a Catholic rule of faith.

You don't see, but what you don't see is what I tried to point out by linking to previous issues. Lending support to this person is sharing in his activity.

You and another are teamed up with him now. Did you mean to do that?

Regardless, I shared the links and explained the errors already, and if you want to be allied with him, so be it. His errors are now yours if that is what you want.

Offline Severinus

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Re: Blasphemers United
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2022, 03:34:45 PM »
If anyone cares, I think the OP was a great idea and really neat!

I don't mind hearing people's personal thoughts on scripture passages either, whether Philip's, yours, Paeniteo's, or those of any other poster here.
I see he has found some allies.

Quote
I don't see how laymen seeking to gain and share personal insight from Scripture reading could be construed as a non-Catholic activity, so long as it is done with a Catholic rule of faith.

You don't see, but what you don't see is what I tried to point out by linking to previous issues. Lending support to this person is sharing in his activity.

You and another are teamed up with him now. Did you mean to do that?

Regardless, I shared the links and explained the errors already, and if you want to be allied with him, so be it. His errors are now yours if that is what you want.

Don't impute anything to me that I don't want imputed to me. I'm responding to this thread, not to other threads that you may have linked to or that may be on your mind. That's your business. If that's the thread you want to post in, please post in that one instead of derailing this one, which is against the forum rules. Let's get back on topic. Thank you.
 
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Offline TerrorDæmonum

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Re: Blasphemers United
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2022, 03:38:55 PM »
Don't impute anything to me that I don't want imputed to me.
Explain your posts then.

Our Slave Master, who art in Heaven?

Quote
I'm responding to this thread, not to other threads that you may have linked to or that may be on your mind. That's your business. If that's the thread you want to post in, please post in that one instead of derailing this one, which is against the forum rules. Let's get back on topic. Thank you.

Go see those threads and see how they were derailed by the OP of this thread. They provide a context for this thread.

If you want to join him: you should know what you are joining. His posts do not exist in a vacuum.

But instead of opposing blasphemies and other things worthy of rebuke, you'll oppose my efforts to help people who may not be aware of the basis for his current posts.

And on this thread, he writes this about me and you say nothing but support him and oppose me:

You are a judaizer, and a stranger in the land.

BUMP.  This coward says such hasty things about me, and then doesn't have the integrity to back up his claim.

I showed where I backed it up to show who was right, and you are not interested in this.

I am Catholic: blasphemies and Protestantism and related heresies do not interest me. I'll oppose them when I am in a position to do so.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2022, 03:47:54 PM by Pæniteo »
 
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Offline Severinus

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Re: Blasphemers United
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2022, 03:55:47 PM »
Don't impute anything to me that I don't want imputed to me.
Explain your posts then.

Our Slave Master, who art in Heaven?

Quote
I'm responding to this thread, not to other threads that you may have linked to or that may be on your mind. That's your business. If that's the thread you want to post in, please post in that one instead of derailing this one, which is against the forum rules. Let's get back on topic. Thank you.

Go see those threads and see how they were derailed by the OP of this thread. They provide a context for this thread.

If you want to join him: you should know what you are joining. His posts do not exist in a vacuum.

But instead of opposing blasphemies and other things worthy of rebuke, you'll oppose my efforts to help people who may not be aware of the basis for his current posts.

I'm not interested in reading an older argument you had with someone. It feels like being dragged into a personal feud. Jayne has done the same thing to me, getting me to pass opinions on a personal feud of hers that had nothing to do with me. I don't like it. Let's stick to the topic, or just move on.
 

Offline TerrorDæmonum

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Madness Reigns
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2022, 04:03:28 PM »
I don't like it. Let's stick to the topic, or just move on.

The topic is personal interpretation of scripture from somehow who has some very bizarre and disordered views.

I don't know how you are going to discuss that and maintain a Catholic identity given that you are willing to post these:

Greater love has no man than this, that he give up his life for his slaves?

Our Slave Master, who art in Heaven?

If you want to entertain his views and support them and make a mockery of those who try to warn of errors, so be it.

I am not going to discuss that topic. I am Catholic and I will only post what is agreeable to Catholics. Protestantism, madness, and blasphemies are not anything I can support in any way.

(Heresies and blasphemies are sins. Madness is not.)