Author Topic: Traditional Catholics and the LaVeyan Church of Satan as the Great Oz  (Read 700 times)

Offline TheReturnofLive

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Anyone here who has watched movies has seen "The Wizard of Oz". One of it's famous moments is the revelation of who the Wizard of Oz really is - Dorothy and her friends are trembling in fear at the great and powerful Wizard of Oz, whose head floats in the air, emitting fire, smoke, and thunder. Toto the dog notices a curtain and a man behind it, with the wizard saying "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!", with Toto revealing the wizard to be a man operating a huge scam / machine.

I feel that many Traditional Catholics are improperly dealing with the LaVeyan Church of Satan, inadvertently giving it power when it should have none.

Many Catholics who have a real longing for engagement in spiritual realities can easily be sucked into the temptation of an obsession with the demonic, and one of the forms this takes is an obsession with the LaVeyan Church of Satan, or the main "Church of Satan" you are always hearing about.

As a formal organization, this is a "parody religion" meant to promote contemporary Liberalism as an idea ("Cultural Marxism" and Social Justice moral self-aggrandizement)

This is an organization of disillusioned, non-influential Evangelicals, Catholics, and other Christians who harbor a deep resentment of the Church, have a bone to pick with it, and only exist to agitate it. Usually people who are broken in some way either morally, mentally, economically, etc., and they blame the Church for all their problems.

In my life experience, you can tell atheists apart from those who genuinely lose Faith or belief and those who have some kind of deep hatred rooted in personal issues that have nothing to do with the Church.

Genuine atheists who lose faith retain some level of positive view towards the Church, and gradually lose faith before finding something else to move on with in their lives. An example, Penn Jillette, who is notorious for trash-talking Christianity, talked about how he was a very religious Protestant who found that the Bible couldn't be properly explained and made no sense on its own - but he even talks about his minister as a great human being who played a positive role in his life.

People who harbor resentment make the Church their obsession, a key component of their life that they seek to take down in any way they can.



The ideology of LaVeyan Satanists is this:
That organized religion promotes superstition against "truth"
that organized religion only creates "bigotry and conflict",
that conservative values come from religion and are a result of conflict, bigotry, and superstition, nothing else.


When many of these people steal Eucharists, or try to erect a Baphomet statue, or do public Black Masses at college campuses, or start school programs for children, they are doing so to antagonize Christians to provoke a crisis-like reaction and validate their own point of view as "non-superstitious people"


Look, evil is active in the world today spiritually. However, don't fall for this trap.

We need to look down on these people with patronizing sadness, and pray for them, rather than crusade against them. Crusading against them is exactly what they want. They want to feel as though they are bigger than they really are, that they really "are" "THE" enemies of the Church and are making an impact by causing an emotional reaction.

"Behold, I'm the Great and powerful Oz!"

Really, they are not this great and powerful Oz. They are a bunch of broken, ignorant people who have a bone to pick due to their own personal issues, who have no real power other than creating headlines by reactions.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2021, 08:47:11 PM by TheReturnofLive »
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Offline TheReturnofLive

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At the end of the day, Satan has no power over Christ. Satan loses in the end, as do his prisoners.
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Offline TheReturnofLive

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Also, feel free to disagree with me, but I just think this organization only feeds on the power that Christian fear gives it, both spiritually and physically. We should be mocking them, weeping for them, and praying for them, not freak out every time they do something to provoke a reaction.
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Also, feel free to disagree with me, but I just think this organization only feeds on the power that Christian fear gives it, both spiritually and physically. We should be mocking them, weeping for them, and praying for them, not freak out every time they do something to provoke a reaction.

It depends.

I agree that they're statistically insignificant but holding black masses, for instance, is a public manifestation of Satanism that ought to be forbidden. Stealing consecrated hosts from Church is also a grave sacrilege that must be stopped. In a Catholic society, these groups would be disbanded and persecuted to the fullest extent of the law. In a secular society, Christians can only bear with patience these abominations until they can regain a political upper hand.
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Offline dellery

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Yes, the LaVeyan form of Satanism is at its core social agitation. It's worth standing up to them for the sake of Christ, and to represent what you believe to outsiders. People form opinions based on how groups respond to antagonism. Take the Triggered "LIb-tards" for example. So much of the current disgust with Liberalism has been built up with the insane way these people respond to antagonism.
To focus on the "LaVeyan Menace" misses the bigger picture, in that real Satanists believe in culling the weak and disordered, and manifest themselves in a total War Against Humanity. Real Satanism is best reflected in the Third Reich and other forms of murderous Neo-Pagan Fascism.
True Satanism is militaristic and unmercifully severe. In fact, the real Satanist organization operating today merged itself with Islam, perpetrates terror attacks around the world, encourages its members to join the military for the "spiritual" act of culling, and has been opposed by the US in the War on Terror.
The media rarely wants to report on the O9A and refuses to connect the dots between it and its agents like Joshua Goldberg.
Real Satanism is deadly and poses an existential threat to people's lives. It may rely on and use LaVeyan-type antagonism to break Christian normalcy, but at its core represents a wrathful hatred of humanity, and not a shred of tolerance for human weakness and vice.
"A harmless man is not a good man. A good man is a very dangerous man who has that under voluntary control." --Jordan Peterson
 
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Offline Elizabeth.2

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We need to look down on these people with patronizing sadness, and pray for them, rather than crusade against them. Crusading against them is exactly what they want. They want to feel as though they are bigger than they really are, that they really "are" "THE" enemies of the Church and are making an impact by causing an emotional reaction.

"Behold, I'm the Great and powerful Oz!"

Really?
 

Offline dellery

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Really.

If you think LaVeyan "Satanism" is real Satanism you do not know what it is.

Know your enemy.
"A harmless man is not a good man. A good man is a very dangerous man who has that under voluntary control." --Jordan Peterson
 
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Offline Pon de Replay

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dellery, whose banner is that on the right, with the Black Sun situated in a red cross on a black field?  A Nazi variant, I would assume.
If traditional Catholics like to call themselves "trads", in the context of a Catholic forum, that is fine usually.

But it is a matter for Catholics only to discuss.
 

Offline TheReturnofLive

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Yes, the LaVeyan form of Satanism is at its core social agitation. It's worth standing up to them for the sake of Christ, and to represent what you believe to outsiders. People form opinions based on how groups respond to antagonism. Take the Triggered "LIb-tards" for example. So much of the current disgust with Liberalism has been built up with the insane way these people respond to antagonism.
To focus on the "LaVeyan Menace" misses the bigger picture, in that real Satanists believe in culling the weak and disordered, and manifest themselves in a total War Against Humanity. Real Satanism is best reflected in the Third Reich and other forms of murderous Neo-Pagan Fascism.
True Satanism is militaristic and unmercifully severe. In fact, the real Satanist organization operating today merged itself with Islam, perpetrates terror attacks around the world, encourages its members to join the military for the "spiritual" act of culling, and has been opposed by the US in the War on Terror.
The media rarely wants to report on the O9A and refuses to connect the dots between it and its agents like Joshua Goldberg.
Real Satanism is deadly and poses an existential threat to people's lives. It may rely on and use LaVeyan-type antagonism to break Christian normalcy, but at its core represents a wrathful hatred of humanity, and not a shred of tolerance for human weakness and vice.

Never heard of the O9A - but that seems to be the real deal. The socio-political philosophy of that group matches how Satan has tempted me in my own spiritual life, and underpinning that socio-political philosophy is a pure hatred of humanity due to moral and genetic flaws. I would also say that their prophesies match up with the various ways Satan has made me despair and feel hopeless, tempting me to apostasize from spirituality altogether.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2021, 09:25:06 AM by TheReturnofLive »
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Offline Elizabeth.2

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Really.

If you think LaVeyan "Satanism" is real Satanism you do not know what it is.

Know your enemy.
  I am aware, thank you. 
 

Offline dellery

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Re: Traditional Catholics and the LaVeyan Church of Satan as the Great Oz
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2021, 10:51:22 PM »
dellery, whose banner is that on the right, with the Black Sun situated in a red cross on a black field?  A Nazi variant, I would assume.

Dunno if it belongs to any certain group per se. I've always learned to not get caught up in the specifics of the details but to search for the threads connecting them. It's most likely a symbol for an idea that is difficult to put into words and that exists in the Acausal Realm so-to-speak.
Interestingly it is a white variant of the Black Sun. The Black Sun is mainly utilized by the Fascistic Occult. Swastikas and the typical Nazi regalia tends to be utilized more so by Political Fascists, whereas the Black Sun represents something esoteric as far as I can tell.
"A harmless man is not a good man. A good man is a very dangerous man who has that under voluntary control." --Jordan Peterson
 
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Offline dellery

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Re: Traditional Catholics and the LaVeyan Church of Satan as the Great Oz
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2021, 11:27:17 PM »
Yes, the LaVeyan form of Satanism is at its core social agitation. It's worth standing up to them for the sake of Christ, and to represent what you believe to outsiders. People form opinions based on how groups respond to antagonism. Take the Triggered "LIb-tards" for example. So much of the current disgust with Liberalism has been built up with the insane way these people respond to antagonism.
To focus on the "LaVeyan Menace" misses the bigger picture, in that real Satanists believe in culling the weak and disordered, and manifest themselves in a total War Against Humanity. Real Satanism is best reflected in the Third Reich and other forms of murderous Neo-Pagan Fascism.
True Satanism is militaristic and unmercifully severe. In fact, the real Satanist organization operating today merged itself with Islam, perpetrates terror attacks around the world, encourages its members to join the military for the "spiritual" act of culling, and has been opposed by the US in the War on Terror.
The media rarely wants to report on the O9A and refuses to connect the dots between it and its agents like Joshua Goldberg.
Real Satanism is deadly and poses an existential threat to people's lives. It may rely on and use LaVeyan-type antagonism to break Christian normalcy, but at its core represents a wrathful hatred of humanity, and not a shred of tolerance for human weakness and vice.

Never heard of the O9A - but that seems to be the real deal. The socio-political philosophy of that group matches how Satan has tempted me in my own spiritual life, and underpinning that socio-political philosophy is a pure hatred of humanity due to moral and genetic flaws. I would also say that their prophesies match up with the various ways Satan has made me despair and feel hopeless, tempting me to apostasize from spirituality altogether.

It's interesting this temptation affects people close to God, just as Satan was. It's one thing to try to love God but stray down the wide path, but being close to God, or thinking that we are, and then ruthlessly condemning those who do not meet the standards for God that we have set, seems to be an authentically Satanic "fall".
« Last Edit: June 07, 2021, 11:29:00 PM by dellery »
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Offline Pon de Replay

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Re: Traditional Catholics and the LaVeyan Church of Satan as the Great Oz
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2021, 08:00:34 AM »
Dunno if it belongs to any certain group per se. I've always learned to not get caught up in the specifics of the details but to search for the threads connecting them. It's most likely a symbol for an idea that is difficult to put into words and that exists in the Acausal Realm so-to-speak.
Interestingly it is a white variant of the Black Sun. The Black Sun is mainly utilized by the Fascistic Occult. Swastikas and the typical Nazi regalia tends to be utilized more so by Political Fascists, whereas the Black Sun represents something esoteric as far as I can tell.

Yes, it's an interesting variant.  I recently finished Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke's biography of Savitri Devi, the undisputed queen of esoteric Nazism, and the Black Sun is a particularly elusive symbol.  Its meaning seems to have been kept genuinely occult.  Some say its spokes are supposed to be lightning bolts, others say sig runes, and a few others say they represent the arms of the goddess Devi in her many-armed warrior aspect of Durga.  On this particular flag, I noticed not only that the Black Sun was white, but that it's lacking the solar disc at the center.  Well, it's somebody's banner; we know not whose.
If traditional Catholics like to call themselves "trads", in the context of a Catholic forum, that is fine usually.

But it is a matter for Catholics only to discuss.
 
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Offline TradGranny

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Re: Traditional Catholics and the LaVeyan Church of Satan as the Great Oz
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2021, 05:22:46 PM »
Actually, satanist who worship the enemy do exist.

This is from SMART Survivors of Masonic Abuse and Ritual Torture

Proof That Ritual Abuse Exists

Ritual abuse exists all over the world. There have been reports, journal articles, web pages and criminal convictions of these horrific crimes against children and adults.
(This page also has day care and other child abuse cases at the bottom.)
List of Ritual Abuse references –

http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/studies/satanic-ritual-abuse-evidence-with-information-on-the-mcmartin-preschool-case/

http://ritualabusearticles.wordpress.com/category/satanic-ritual-abuse-evidence/

What is Ritual Abuse?
“…is methodical abuse, often using indoctrination, aimed at breaking the will of another human being. In a 1989 report, the Ritual Abuse Task Force of the L.A. County Commission for Women defined ritual abuse as: “Ritual Abuse usually involves repeated abuse over an extended period of time. The physical abuse is severe, sometimes including torture and killing. The sexual abuse is usually painful,humiliating, intended as a means of gaining dominance over the victim.The psychological abuse is devastating and involves the use of ritual indoctrination. It includes mind control techniques which convey to the victim a profound terror of the cult members …most victims are in a state of terror, mind control and dissociation” (Pg. 35-36) “Safe Passage to Healing”, by Chrystine Oksana, 1994, HarperCollins, which is an excellent source for survivor and co-survivors on the topic, though there is a newer edition out by iuniverse.com (2001)

List of legal cases:

Believe the children (1997). “Conviction List: Ritual Child Abuse”. http://ra-info.org/faqs/ra-convictions/

Web pages proving the existence of ritual abuse:

Noblitt, PhD, J. R. – An Empirical Look at the Ritual Abuse Controversy (2007) http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/articles/an-empirical-look-at-the-ritual-abuse-controversy-randy-noblitt-phd/

Ritual Abuse Bibliography http://ra-info.org/for-researchers/bibliographies/ritual-abuse-primary-and-secondary-source-books/

Ritual Abuse Statistics & Research http://web.archive.org/web/20071210161357/http://home.mchsi.com/~ftio/ra-stats.htm

Searchable releases on satanic ritual abuse http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psnews/
Frequently Asked Questions about Ritual Abuse and Mind Control https://survivorship.org/frequently-ask-questions/

Satanic Ritual Abuse: The Evidence Surfaces By Daniel Ryder, CCDC, LSW http://web.archive.org/web/20080125051057/http://home.mchsi.com/~ftio/ra-evidence-surfaces.htm

Publications on Ritual Abuse and Mind Control
http://endritualabuse.org/publications-on-ritual-abuse-and-mind-control-in-2008/
Lacter, E (2008-02-11). “Brief Synopsis of the Literature on the Existence of Ritualistic Abuse”.  http://endritualabuse.org/brief-synopsis-of-the-literature-on-the-existence-of-ritualistic-abuse/

Information on Ellen Lacter and Her Research
https://ritualabuse.us/smart/ellen-lacter/

Information on Valerie Sinason and Her Research
https://ritualabuse.us/smart/valerie-sinason/

Information on Randy Noblitt and His Research
https://ritualabuse.us/smart/randy-noblitt/
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Offline TradGranny

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Re: Traditional Catholics and the LaVeyan Church of Satan as the Great Oz
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2021, 05:24:21 PM »
Ritual abuse diagnosis research – excerpt from a chapter in: Lacter, E. & Lehman, K. (2008).Guidelines to Differential Diagnosis between Schizophrenia and Ritual Abuse/Mind Control Traumatic Stress. In J.R. Noblitt & P. Perskin(Eds.), Ritual Abuse in the Twenty-first Century: Psychological, Forensic, Social and Political Considerations, pp. 85-154. Bandon, Oregon: Robert D. Reed Publishers. quotes: A second study revealed that these results were unrelated to patients’ degree of media and hospital milieu exposure to the subject of Satanic ritual abuse. “In fact, less media exposure was associated with production of more Satanic content in patients reporting ritual abuse, evidence that reports of ritual abuse are not primarily the product of exposure contagion.” Responses are consistent with the devastating and pervasive abuse these victims have experienced, so often including immediate family members. http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/studies/ritual-abuse-diagnosis-research-2/

Bottoms, Shaver and Goodman in their 1993 study to evaluate ritual abuse claims found that in 2,292 alleged ritual abuse cases, 15% of the perpetrators in adult cases and 30% of the perpetrators in child cases confessed to the abuse. Data from Brown, Scheflin and Hammond (1998).”Memory, Trauma Treatment, And the Law” (W. W. Norton) ISBN 0-393-70254-5 (p.62) Bottoms, B. Shaver, P. & Goodman, G. (1993) Profile of ritual abuse and religion related abuse allegations in the United States. Updated findings provided via personal communication from B. Bottoms. Cited in K.C. Faller (1994), Ritual Abuse; A Review of the research. The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children Advisor , 7, 1, 19-27

On Page 170 (first edition), of Cult and Ritual Abuse – Noblitt and Perskin (Praeger, 1995) states “One of the best sources of evaluative research on ritual abuse is the article “Ritual Abuse: A Review of Research” by Kathleen Coulborn Faller (1994)….in a survey of 2,709 members of the American Psychological Association, it was found that 30 percent of these professionals had seen cases of ritual or religion-related abuse (Bottoms, Shaver & Goodman, 1991). Of those psychologists who have seen cases of ritual abuse, 93 percent believed that the reported harm took place and 93 percent believed that the alleged ritualism occurred. This is a remarkable finding. Mental health professionals are known to be divergent in their thinking and frequently do not agree with one another regarding questions of the diagnosis and etiology of psychiatric problems…this level of concurrence in a large national sample of psychologists…would be impressive….the similar research of Nancy Perry (1992) which further supports (the previous findings)…Perry also conducted a national survey of therapists who work with clients with dissociative disorders and she found that 88 percent of the 1,185 respondents indicated”belief in ritual abuse, involving mind control and programming” (p.3).”

Journal of Psychology and Theology – Satanic Ritual Abuse: The Current State of Knowledge
Satanic Ritual Abuse: A Question of Memory
http://journals.biola.edu/jpt/volumes/22/issues/3/articles/167
…Leading memory researchers such as Dr. Bessel van der Kolk of Harvard Medical School maintain that traumatic memories, which typically are engraved in the sensorimotor processes, are not subject to the same kinds of contamination that can affect normal memory. Traumatic amnesia, described in the dsm-iii-r as psychogenic amnesia, is a phenomenon which has been known to mental health professionals for more than 100 years. The clinically observed characteristics of traumatic memory formation and retrieval match precisely the patterns of memory recovery exhibited by sra survivors, and strongly confirm the reality of their cult abuse. Author D. McCulley Pages 167 – 172
http://journals.biola.edu/

Adults who report childhood ritualistic abuse. By: Cozolino, L.J.; Shaffer, R.E. Volume 20, Issue 3 Fall 1992 Therapists are finding an increasing number of patients uncovering memories of ritualistic forms of abuse from childhood. To gain a fuller understanding of this phenomenon, twenty outpatients reporting memories of ritualistic abuse were interviewed. Questions focused on the nature of the abuse and its perceived impact on interpersonal, occupational, and spiritual development. Reasons for entering psychotherapy as well as the nature and course of treatment were also discussed. Subjects entered therapy with similar psychological complaints. Reported psychiatric sequelae included dissociative, affective, somatization, and eating disorders. Abuse experiences were reported to have affected every aspect of their adult functioning. Subjects began therapy with little or no knowledge of the phenomenon of ritualistic abuse, and only one patient reported vague memories of ritualistic abuse before entering therapy. Reports from this sample reflect striking convergence among subjects and with data from previous research and clinical reports. A composite clinical case study is presented based on these data.

excerpts from the article:
“Skeptics question the legitimacy of these reports,but many factors point to the reality of the phenomenon of ritualistic abuse. First of all, the degree of consistency between reports of individuals from different parts of the country is very high. The fact that children as young as 2 and 3 report ritualistic abuse experiences that mirror those reported by adult victims is especially striking in light of the fact that young children do not have access to the kind of printed information that might conceivably allow an older person to fabricate such experiences (Gould, 1987). Second, experiences of ritualistic abuse reported by victims of all ages are virtually identical to written historical accounts of Satan worship and the like (Hill & Goodwin, 1989; Russell, 1972), findings that substantiate our present-day understanding of Satanism and ritualistic abuse as intragenerational phenomenon. Third, the symptoms from which individuals reporting histories of ritualistic abuse tend to suffer are consistent with our current understanding of post-traumatic stress disorder and the dissociative disorders. The progression in which ritualistic abuse survivors respond to psychotherapy places these victims squarely within the category of individual who have suffered real-not imagined-trauma.

That is, when memories of the dissociated traumatic event have been fully surfaced into conscious awareness and re-associated in all their aspects, the often extremely debilitating symptoms from which the individual has suffered abate dramatically and over the course of treatment frequently disappear altogether (Ray & Reagor, 1991).
Comments on study: Shaffer and Cozolino (1992) interviewed 19 women and one man who reported types and aftereffects of ritualistic abuse consistent with those reported by Young et al. All subjects reported witnessing the murder of animals, infants, children and/or adults. All reported suicidal ideation and half reported suicide attempts. The majority reported severe and sadistic forms of abuse by multiple perpetrators. Some reported continued recontact/revictimization into their adult years.
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