This Day in History

[red solo cup]

August 23rd, 1305

Wallace is martyred.

[Michael Wilson]

Auch!

[Heinrich]

Auch!

Me, also too!

Wasn't Wallace kinda a punk? Edward was a great king. Brought back anglo saxon traditions and revamped the legal code(made it fairer). He was a champion of the peasantry, and kept the Church in its esteemed place. Open to correction. Going on memory after I read some years ago that Braveheart's history was foxtrot.

[red solo cup]

Edward was a great king but they didn't call him Hammer of the Scots for nothing.

[Heinrich]

Edward was a great king but they didn't call him Hammer of the Scots for nothing.

But why are the Scots portrayed as the innocents?

[red solo cup]

Edward was a great king but they didn't call him Hammer of the Scots for nothing.

But why are the Scots portrayed as the innocents?

Human nature?

[Heinrich]

Furthermore, was Wallace executed as a defender of the Faith? Martyr?

[red solo cup]

Most Scots consider him a martyr.

[mikemac]

How did we get to the point of recognizing Edward I as a great king?

[Heinrich]

How did we get to the point of recognizing Edward I as a great king?

I think it was me (going by memory). Please look above. If was indeed rebelling against injustice, that's fine. He's the man. However, if he was a shrewd usurper, seeking personal power and pelf, then he needs to be judged as such.

[mikemac]

How did we get to the point of recognizing Edward I as a great king?

I think it was me (going by memory). Please look above. If was indeed rebelling against injustice, that's fine. He's the man. However, if he was a shrewd usurper, seeking personal power and pelf, then he needs to be judged as such.

Maybe you are getting Edward I confused with Edward the Confessor?  Edward I won the Second Barons' War, he conquered and colonized Wales, he expelled all the Jews from England and he attempted but failed to conquer Scotland.  I suppose I could see why some Englishmen would call Edward I a great king.  But I can't see why anyone else would though.

[Heinrich]

How did we get to the point of recognizing Edward I as a great king?

I think it was me (going by memory). Please look above. If was indeed rebelling against injustice, that's fine. He's the man. However, if he was a shrewd usurper, seeking personal power and pelf, then he needs to be judged as such.

Maybe you are getting Edward I confused with Edward the Confessor?  Edward I won the Second Barons' War, he conquered and colonized Wales, he expelled all the Jews from England and he attempted but failed to conquer Scotland.  I suppose I could see why some Englishmen would call Edward I a great king.  But I can't see why anyone else would though.

No. St. Edward is my Confirmation saint. Edward 1 is as you said.

[mikemac]

How did we get to the point of recognizing Edward I as a great king?

I think it was me (going by memory). Please look above. If was indeed rebelling against injustice, that's fine. He's the man. However, if he was a shrewd usurper, seeking personal power and pelf, then he needs to be judged as such.

Maybe you are getting Edward I confused with Edward the Confessor?  Edward I won the Second Barons' War, he conquered and colonized Wales, he expelled all the Jews from England and he attempted but failed to conquer Scotland.  I suppose I could see why some Englishmen would call Edward I a great king.  But I can't see why anyone else would though.

No. St. Edward is my Confirmation saint. Edward 1 is as you said.

There are actually two St. Edwards that are recognized by the Catholic Church, Edward the Martyr (962 – 978) and Edward the Confessor (1003 – 1066).

Edward the Confessor was among the last Anglo-Saxon kings of England.  Edward I (1239 – 1307) was the first son of King Henry III and Eleanor of Provence.  Edward is an Anglo-Saxon name, and was not commonly given among the aristocracy of England after the Norman conquest, but Henry was devoted to the veneration of Edward the Confessor, and decided to name his firstborn son after the saint.

[nmoerbeek]

Edward was a great king but they didn't call him Hammer of the Scots for nothing.

Ed
But why are the Scots portrayed as the innocents?

Scotland was not the provoker of the war.  Edward started a war with Scotland because the Scottish had created the Auld Alliance with France. So King Edward invaded them in 1296  and forced the King of Scotland to Abdicate, Wallace showed up on the scene in 1297 after most of the Scottish nobility had given homage to the King of England while they were prisoners of war after he had defeated them.

It is true that while Wallace was fighting the war still, many of the nobles came to terms with the King of England, and Wallace along with Andrew Morray still fought on, and then Wallace proceeded to beat the English in multiple battles.

[mikemac]

Edward was a great king but they didn't call him Hammer of the Scots for nothing.

Ed
But why are the Scots portrayed as the innocents?

Scotland was not the provoker of the war.  Edward started a war with Scotland because the Scottish had created the Auld Alliance with France. So King Edward invaded them in 1296  and forced the King of Scotland to Abdicate, Wallace showed up on the scene in 1297 after most of the Scottish nobility had given homage to the King of England while they were prisoners of war after he had defeated them.

It is true that while Wallace was fighting the war still, many of the nobles came to terms with the King of England, and Wallace along with Andrew Morray still fought on, and then Wallace proceeded to beat the English in multiple battles.

Yes, Braveheart is not historically correct on some accounts, but it does get a lot correct.  For instance the nobles were Normans that were invited to Scotland by King David I (reigned 1124–1153) to subdue particularly the Kingdom of Moray which held a better claimant to David's throne, the Meic Uilleim (MacWilliams).  This period in Scottish history was called the Davidian Revolution.  Note in Braveheart, originally even Bruce who was a Norman noble, also supported Edward I of England.