Intimidated by SSPX

[LouisIX]

I was quite nervous the first time I attended an SSPX chapel.  It was a small one, and I didn't know what to expect.  I can honestly say that I felt more welcomed in that chapel than I had at any Novus Ordo with the fleet of "welcomers".

We were greeted a few fellow parishioners that weren't acting as greeter, but were just being kind, which made things much more genuine.  They were happy to see new faces.

[The Harlequin King]

I can understand the Paris "flagship" as you call it. I suppose they use a bit off common sense that being Paris, a city of tourism, common sense dictates that some of the attendees at Mass are from out-of-town, they wanted to fulfill their Sunday obligation, possibly the woman forgot her mantilla at the hotel, whatever.
But I think the regulars at the "flagship" church, do dress appropriately for mass.

While there are tourists and people who attend simply because it happens to be the local parish (one of the benefits of being a trad church in the inner city of a major metropolitan area), even women in the choir might wear pants or omit the headcovering. They are simply not as strict as the American chapels.

[joe17]

 I have seen some of this myself at a sede European(Italian) chapel.  The people were regulars, but at least two, maybe three gals(of a congregation of less then 20) were wearing pants.  Veils, however, were worn by all the ladies.
  Anyway, perhaps since I am a single guy and do not care if people give me notice or not, I have not felt intimidated when going to a foreign mission, even though I have witnessed it in concern to others.
  I can recall an instance when coming into a conversation where I knew one of the two, an older lady, and she immediately said to me "Joe, do you know this man(the one she is talking to, 2 ft away from here and me) goes to the Novus Ordo?"  How is someone supposed to feel welcome with that type of comments going their way.  I am not for such attendance, needless to say, but there are ways to help a newcomer feel at ease.  More tact, to say the least. 
  By the way, last I heard, the lady that made that comment to me became a Home-Aloner a few years later.
  A lesson that we have to remember to be charitable with our fellow men if we truly want to live out the Gospel message.

Joe
 
 

[Bonaventure]

Joe, I agree. More charity, more tact, and more friendliness.

I usually make small talk with people I meet at chapels, but when I was a trad neophyte, I felt uptight unwelcomeness at times. A lot of it was based off of stuff I read online, but there were a few examples of the "bitter trad" that I've come across.

[Christknight104]

Europe, especially France, will always have a chic factor, even when going to Mass.

Can you possibly elaborate on this chic factor?

[Penelope]

I think that, in general, trad parishes and chapels tend to have very tight-knit communities--which is ideal, in my opinion. However, when a person is new to such a tight-knit community, it can be intimidating to try to break in to such a group. It's perhaps akin to being the new kid in school--everyone else already knows one another, they hang out together outside of school, they might be wary of new people. In a trad chapel, the mothers may all homeschool together (many do in mine), the families form one another's primary social contacts for both parents and children, and they may be wary of people who suddenly show up in "their" territory. They may worry, perhaps on a subconscious level, "Is this new person authentically traditional? Do they really understand what we do here? Will they try to subvert what we do here?" Of course, these fears may well be unfounded, but I think many trads have been burned enough in the past by people who are supposed to be Catholic, so these fears do crop up.

I remember being so intimidated when I first began going to my local TLM. All these people knew each other and had for years. They spent time together during the week and on weekends outside of church-related activities. Pretty much all of the mothers homeschooled their kids and their kids were all good friends. After Mass, everyone would congregate out front of the church to talk to one another and as I drove away, I would look in my rearview mirror and wish that I was an actual part of that community, that I could still be standing out there and talking with them.

I had to assert my way into the community. People were kind, some were outright welcoming, but many just ignored my presence. (And why shouldn't they? Who was I that I should have commanded everyone's attention?) It helped that I already knew the head of the choir/head sexton because he's my friend's father. People could at least see me talking to him after Mass and more people began introducing themselves to me. I began (somewhat awkwardly) hanging out after Mass and striking up conversation with some of the people there. I wasn't always such an assertive person--it was a skill I had to cultivate. It was difficult to push myself out of my comfort zone, but I knew that if I wanted to be accepted into the community, the onus was on me to do the work, not on everyone else.

After a while, I began being invited to some of the parishioners' social events. I suspect that after I begin having children, the other mothers in the parish will embrace me even more. I became Facebook friends some of the folks from my parish, too, which has helped me get to know them better.

One of our most involved couples recently moved to New England, so other people have had to take over their roles in the parish. I've somehow wound up as the head of the refreshment committee. I'm now really starting to feel like I belong to this community, which again, I think is so important in a parish. There's enough extra-liturgical stuff that goes on in a parish, and the more involved different individuals are, the stronger the parish community is. I have a sneaking suspicion that since this couple moved away, it'll become my responsibility to plan this year's Latin Mass picnic, an annual tradition that occurs each June.

Anyway, my point is that the feeling of intimidation is natural but that most people will likely ignore you altogether unless you make yourself known. I always try to at least catch the eyes of new people at my parish, because I remember what it feels like to be the new person, but usually they just scurry off after Mass. So, I guess if you want to become a part of the community, make sure you stick around after Mass. There's probably someone there who wants to say hello!

[The Harlequin King]

Europe, especially France, will always have a chic factor, even when going to Mass.

Can you possibly elaborate on this chic factor?

Here's a picture I took just outside Saint-Nicolas-du-Chardonnet (the SSPX church in Paris). These are all attendees who just got out of Sunday sung Mass.




While they're not remarkable on their own, they make the average American trad congregation look pretty dumpy by comparison. And actually, now that I look at it, there does appear to be one chick wearing blue jeans.

[The Harlequin King]

Here's a picture inside the church. I didn't take this one for the purpose of people-watching, but to catch a glimpse of the liturgy from where I was sitting. I'm in the ambulatory on the north side, looking into the sanctuary, which is partly covered in this photo by the back of the choir stalls. But here, you can also see how some of the laity in Paris dress.

[Christknight104]

Europe, especially France, will always have a chic factor, even when going to Mass.

Can you possibly elaborate on this chic factor?

Here's a picture I took just outside Saint-Nicolas-du-Chardonnet (the SSPX church in Paris). These are all attendees who just got out of Sunday sung Mass.




While they're not remarkable on their own, they make the average American trad congregation look pretty dumpy by comparison. And actually, now that I look at it, there does appear to be one chick wearing blue jeans.

Indeed. I have also attended Mass at St. Nicholas du Chardonnet. Their congregation looks like the congregation at my local Institute of Christ the King parish. 

This is the SSPX congregation in Germany, reputed by Cathinfo posters to be the most liberal of SSPX districts. If you observe the women, you can hardly see the sea of veils, especially in comparison to Trad American parishes.

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[Bonaventure]

Europe, especially France, will always have a chic factor, even when going to Mass.

Can you possibly elaborate on this chic factor?

They want to be somewhat fashionable.

I don't think you'd find other women telling those without veils to put one on, or, worse yet, telling someone else to do their dirty work for them.

Nor do I think I would find little house on the prairie types in France. Probably a few far right paramilitary types, but not many.

[Magnificat]

I had to assert my way into the community. People were kind, some were outright welcoming, but many just ignored my presence. (And why shouldn't they? Who was I that I should have commanded everyone's attention?)

This is a refreshingly humble perspective.

[Christknight104]

Europe, especially France, will always have a chic factor, even when going to Mass.

Can you possibly elaborate on this chic factor?

They want to be somewhat fashionable.

I don't think you'd find other women telling those without veils to put one on, or, worse yet, telling someone else to do their dirty work for them.

Nor do I think I would find little house on the prairie types in France. Probably a few far right paramilitary types, but not many.

I see. France is the fashion capital of the world after all. One can be fashionable and modest at the same time. Traditional Catholics need not look like Puritans or Amish. Then again, it is better to have the little house on the prairie look than being immodest.

[Kaesekopf]

I agree, Christknight.

Traditional Catholicism does not mean we dress in ankle-length denim jumpers and overalls.

We can still dress modestly and fashionably.

[Kaesekopf]

Bumpity bump.  Genevieve, have you visited a chapel yet?  If you do, let us know!  I think we'd be interested in your opinions/reactions. 

[Quo Vadis]

I felt intimidated by the Byzantine Catholic Church.  I was also made to feel welcome, though.  I was hampered by my feeling of inadequacy.  Even now, I fail to understand many things that are spoken, but I can now aid newbies and visitors in following the liturgy using the liturgy book.  Also, I try to intercept people who get up and leave because they thought they were going to a Catholic Church!

By death He trampled death! <- that was the first phrase that stuck in my mind after my first liturgy.