# of souls in heaven: Voris vs. Barron

Started by Geremia, October 17, 2013, 12:05:27 PM

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I think Voris is wrong in saying hoping all go to heaven isn't logical and is a vain hope.
What about the Fatima prayer? "Lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy?"


I'm fairly positive we can say that Judas is in hell, since Our Lord said that it would be better for His betrayer to have never been born. And perhaps Cain as well. Though I am less positive about his fate than I am Judas'.


Perhaps his usage of "hope" is particular here and not interchangeable with "desire". We can desire things that we don't have a reasonable hope of happening. Eh, idk, that's way I think of it, but I'm a perpetual, professional Pollyannist.
"You shall seek me, and shall find me: when you shall seek me with all your heart." Jeremias 29:13


I've wondered about this, myself. The way that I deal with it now, is to pray daily that all sinners may repent; that the dying may have a happy death; and that priests may be full of zeal for the salvation of souls; and after that, leave it up to God.  :pray3:
My Lord and my God.


We know that all sinners cannot be saved in a universal sense.  The Scriptures and the Doctors show that souls do go to hell, in fact many do.  But we can hope that any individual man may be saved, since we do not yet know who is among the elect and who is damned (save for Judas).

IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.


The Saints and Doctors say that only few are saved. And what a frightening thought that is! It only shows that we must work out our salvation in fear and trembling and pray for the salvation of the whole world!

How many souls are on the path to hell today?

Our Lady of Fatima came to warn us, to ask us to pray for poor sinnners.
"I have never changed. I have preached and done what the Church has always taught. I have never changed what the Church said in the Council of Trent and at the First Vatican Council. So who has changed? It is the enemy, as Pope St. Pius X said, the enemy who is working within the Church because he wants the Church to be finished with her tradition." (Archbishop Lefebvre, Homily, Venice, April 7, 1980)


"Then the king said to the waiters: Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen." Matt 22:14

"Let me, however, beg of Your Beatitude...
not to think so much of what I have written, as of my good and kind intentions. Please look for the truths of which I speak rather than for beauty of expression. Where I do not come up to your expectations, pardon me, and put my shortcomings down, please, to lack of time and stress of business." St. Bonaventure, From the Preface of Holiness of Life.

Lay Association:


I've seen this before but it was good to see it again.  The snuggles and wuv crowd lack a sense of justice and reason.
"One would be straying from the straight path were he to wish the altar restored to its primitive tableform; were he to want black excluded as a color for the liturgical vestments; were he to forbid the use of sacred images and statues in Churches...and lastly were he to disdain and reject polyphonic music or singing in parts, even where it conforms to regulations issued by the Holy See." - Ven. Pope Pius XII

"You've thought about eternity for twenty-five minutes and think you've come to some interesting conclusions."--  (Stolen from EcceQuamBonum's signature)

America, that great bastion of the Enlightenment, is the destroyer of all religions.--LouisIX