Why Accept the authority of the Gospels?

Started by Michael Wilson, December 04, 2022, 05:01:50 PM

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Quote from: Aethel on December 16, 2022, 12:01:55 PMPopping in here - prooftexting ancient religious collections to fish for contradictions based on select quotes is really low intellectual, least common denominator garbage. It doesn't prove anything because the texts only exist to explain the theology of the religion, and as such, finding select quotes of that text to argue against the religion's theology will always lead to the counter claim of "hey you are an outsider who is misinterpreting our texts", leading to nobody actually knowing the "one true meaning" of the text. It's garbage anybody can do just due to the sheer volume of the texts. It also doesn't actually address the substantive claims of the religion. I could go through Buddhist Pali Suttas and do the same thing to show that the Buddha inconsistently cling onto the caste system in some places while vilifying it in another, but Buddhist monks would scold me because I'm ignoring the religion's theology.

You should go more macro level and see that Islam is a nonsensical mish-mash of Christianity and Judaism. The Quran even has a direct quote lifted from the Talmud, a post-Christ Jewish (and explicitly anti-Christ) text - Surah 5:32. Islam also lifts from Docetism which makes no sense if Jesus wasn't God incarnate - and one has to ask, if the life of Jesus is one of rebellion against Jewish legal rules because the law was void, why does Islam still enforce Jewish Old Testament law? And let's not even get started on the nonsense of the uncreated Quran - is the Quran part of God if it was uncreated? Is it God?

I have issues with Christianity's own internal inconsistencies too, and I admit i am no unbiased party - but if we are going to look at the claims of the religion, it's pretty clear Catholicism is a preferable alternative to Islam.

By all means look at Islam and study it, but don't fall for garbage Evangelical tier apologetics.

Islam has bits in the Quran, plus evidence like the use of crosses by early Moslem rulers on coins and on inscriptions, written they admit long after Mohammed, from oral tradition and bits of leather, suggests very unclear origins. Perhaps it started out as a paired down Christianity rebelling against the imperially back Orthodox Church (many cities in the Roman East fell peacefully as civic leaders preferred not to have to deal with Roman authorities and their religious policies). Even later the writings of former Umayyad fiscal official St John of Damascus suggests the Islam we have is quite different, and the many diverging texts of the Arab Quran are other story itself. The mishmash of Hadeeth written long after and likely ex post facto efforts to legitimise the policy of Abbasid rulers is worse still. While Christianity has some apparent contradictions, the essential consistency of the text is far more provable than the Quran. While the fixing of the exact canon took centuries, St Jerome still had to work some things out, the early survivals of parts of the Gospels and other evidence are far superior.
Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.

Jean Carrier

Quote from: Aethel on December 16, 2022, 12:12:46 PMThere's also a much simpler approach here too:

Which god do you want to follow? Jesus or Allah?

What's more important than epistemological certainty is your conception of the highest ideal good (God) and orienting your life to achieve Union with that. And only your soul can answer the question of what deity is a better conception of goodness.

I'm surprised no one caught this. This "simpler approach" is in fact the approach of modernism. Namely: there is no certainty available to us on these matters, ergo we should follow our subjective conceptions of "the Divine" and adhere to the religion which best nourishes our inner religious experience and resonates with our soul. Using this approach, one is just as justified in being a pagan or Buddhist as they are a Catholic
All mankind was in the ark with Noah : all the Church is with me on the rock of Pensicola!
- Pope St. Benedict XIII, in response to the emissaries of Anti-Emperor Sigismund and the Conciliarist Council of Constance who demanded his resignation


^^Today, many from among who call themselves Catholics think that way.