Shower Thought: Age of Consent/Majority = Adult is Rather Absurd

Started by BlueInGreen, September 21, 2022, 04:39:52 PM

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BlueInGreen

Just because one turns 18 doesn't make them "magically" an adult. When I turned 18 I never once thought "Hey, I can now purchase adult magazines and smoke cigarettes!" (See: Lady Bird). I never thought "I can now legally sleep with that immensely attractive female teacher who's 33!" (This thought never happened; just a hypothetical.) Legally I could have, but should that action be acted upon?

This is a grave issue I see in Western society. My parents are from the East, where many parts recognize 18 is an adult but it's definitely not looked at the same way Western society does. Western society, for whatever reason, the "18 is an adult" seems like a "let the cattle out of the enclosure" sorta thing that just screams of pure nonsense.

18 for me was never a "what I can and can't do" but a "I can now be charged as an adult instead of a minor under the law" realization. I felt more grownup when I turned 16. Why? I could now drive without an adult and with that all the responsibilities of driving safely. I could now go to places without being dependent on their schedule or plead with them to drive me places. Getting a job at 16 and paying taxes was an added responsibility that turned 18 as a boring, uneventful day. 18 was just 18. Just because I could do certain things didn't mean I should.

But Western society treats 18 yr olds like new members of the Debauchery Club as they waited in (some) silence until I and others turned 18. Newly minted 18 yr olds, as if they were never guided by their parents (and their lack or nonexistence of faith), gladly accepted the invitation.

18 doesn't make an adult in the truest sense because what if that age of majority/consent was 17? 20? 21? It just makes you a victim your legally bad choices. A OBGYN physician said, and I paraphrase "Yes, 18 makes one an 'adult', but we all know they're not truly an adult. Today, 20 is a mini-adult while 22 one should actually start showings signs of true maturity."

An 18 yr old is still a "kid." Physically mature? Sure, for the most part, but the maturation of the body means nothing when the cognitive and spiritual aspects are undeveloped. An 18 yr old is practically an 'adult' with training wheels; a handicap.
Cradle Catholic traversing modernism while rediscovering my heritage - in faith and ethnically.

diaduit

This thinking of 18 is an adult, endemic here in Ireland and my son when he turned 18 thought all of a sudden I couldn't ask him questions about where he was going or say no to any of his plans, thought I hadn't the right to put a curfew etc because he was 18 (to be fair, he is a good kid but was definitely pushing boundaries).

I cured it very quickly with ' right, you want to be an adult well then you don't pick what parts of adulthood you want, like the going out with friends and spending money your own way without responsibilities.  Adulthood also includes paying your own bill, roof over your head, taking on more physical work, making your own way into town (we don't drive here until 18 and even then with cost of insurance it can take a few more years) so you can start by moving out, paying your own bills and cycling 12 miles into work and play.

That stops him in his tracks.


james03

Historically 18 is on the older side.  A lot of men who fought and died in recent wars were 18.

In agriculture days, boys would work everyday on the farm with their Dad.  They were definitely men by 16.  More mature than a lot of 30 yr. olds today.
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The Curt Jester

A lot of Americans say their children have to be out of the house when after they turn eighteen because they are adults.  Problem is that many of those same parents didn't teach their children how to be adults, so they are sending out their children with no experience, knowledge, or wisdom.  If we're going to consider children to become adults at that age, they have to be trained well before that.
The royal feast was done; the King
Sought some new sport to banish care,
And to his jester cried: "Sir Fool,
Kneel now, and make for us a prayer!"

The jester doffed his cap and bells,
And stood the mocking court before;
They could not see the bitter smile
Behind the painted grin he wore.

He bowed his head, and bent his knee
Upon the Monarch's silken stool;
His pleading voice arose: "O Lord,
Be merciful to me, a fool!"

diaduit

Quote from: james03 on September 22, 2022, 08:13:41 AM
Historically 18 is on the older side.  A lot of men who fought and died in recent wars were 18.

In agriculture days, boys would work everyday on the farm with their Dad.  They were definitely men by 16.  More mature than a lot of 30 yr. olds today.

Yes its a pity that system is gone and the focus became on education solely.  Just to add, I don't hold my son back either, he lived in the city last year doing his course, cycled to his college and held a part time job so he didn't cost us a cent.  He is back up for 2nd year training again. He travelled to Switzerland for a few days by himself also.  I think it is healthy to loosen the rope gradually until they can really fend for themselves.  Its the attitude that once your 18 you don't need any more guidance or permission anymore and parents are tossing boy children out on their own and they head straight for the decadent lifstyle.

Julio

Quote from: james03 on September 22, 2022, 08:13:41 AM
Historically 18 is on the older side.  A lot of men who fought and died in recent wars were 18.

In agriculture days, boys would work everyday on the farm with their Dad.  They were definitely men by 16.  More mature than a lot of 30 yr. olds today.
Criminal responsibility regarding "child labor" is such a big problem that the leftist and godless caused to our society.

BlueInGreen

Quote from: james03 on September 22, 2022, 08:13:41 AM
Historically 18 is on the older side.  A lot of men who fought and died in recent wars were 18.

In agriculture days, boys would work everyday on the farm with their Dad.  They were definitely men by 16.  More mature than a lot of 30 yr. olds today.

That's the amusing part. In the past, adulthood was considered at a younger age but without the "I can do this now and there's nothing you can say about it" attitude. If you're in your mid-twenties as a woman and you're single your parents would be worried on why you haven't had an suitors. If you're 30 and single you'd be considered sprinster. Of Course back then times were less luxurious where society wasn't nearly as developed as today. Those times needed more hands on deck than today. I also read somewhere that at age 14 a teenage boy was considered a man.

It's just today many things are just backwards on how we approach certain milestones and topics.
Cradle Catholic traversing modernism while rediscovering my heritage - in faith and ethnically.

BlueInGreen

Quote from: The Curt Jester on September 22, 2022, 09:26:43 AM
A lot of Americans say their children have to be out of the house when after they turn eighteen because they are adults.  Problem is that many of those same parents didn't teach their children how to be adults, so they are sending out their children with no experience, knowledge, or wisdom.  If we're going to consider children to become adults at that age, they have to be trained well before that.

I actually know some parents who did this where I live (US). I'm not entirely opposed to this, but those that were put in that situation did say it was rather tough the first couple of years, though they gradually got use to it. I know in the US it's more common than, say, Western Europe for parents to greatly urge their childcare to move out "because you're 18 now." In Asia it's okay to still be living with your parents until you get married. I think getting a place of your own, whether owned or rented, as a sign of "being an adult" is culturally relative. With that said, I cannot deny the experience of working within a budget as one pays rent and food that's greatly stressful and rewarding at the same time IF one does manage it at 18/19. To me that's truly a sink or swim stage because going back home with your tail between legs just isn't an option due to ego.
Cradle Catholic traversing modernism while rediscovering my heritage - in faith and ethnically.

BlueInGreen

Quote from: diaduit on September 22, 2022, 11:05:55 AM
Its the attitude that once your 18 you don't need any more guidance or permission anymore and parents are tossing boy children out on their own and they head straight for the decadent lifstyle.

This is what I'm trying to get at. I'm no longer 18 but I still listen to my parents even though at times I don't want to. They may have a good point or they may not. I then, as a "legal adult" discern my own perspective, theirs and maybe someone else's and then make a decision. I just never completely wrapped my head around the Western belief that once you're 18 you're "an adult" where that and consent was the only thing that mattered. There seems to be no balance - no proper weening and no proper scaffolding of potential wisdom of not whether what one can do, but whether one should do X or Y or engage in Z. There is no foresight, just "here and now" which isn't romantic once one thinks about it.
Cradle Catholic traversing modernism while rediscovering my heritage - in faith and ethnically.

Tennessean

Adulthood should be 36. The year you assume your full rights as a man. Women aren't allowed, they are classified with children and the handicapped as mentally unsound.

BlueInGreen

Quote from: Tennessean on September 24, 2022, 12:36:27 PM
Adulthood should be 36. The year you assume your full rights as a man. Women aren't allowed, they are classified with children and the handicapped as mentally unsound.

Really?
Cradle Catholic traversing modernism while rediscovering my heritage - in faith and ethnically.

Mushroom

The age of consent at 18 is absurd and under 18, apparently, you'd be considered a "child". I think a 14-year-old person can definitely be an adult if they're raised in that way. Also, why is it that you have to be 18 to get married (without parents' permission) but you can be having sex as young as 12?! 

Looking at the laws regarding age of consent in Canada:

- A 14 or 15 year-old individual can consent to sexual activity with someone who is less than five years older than them.
- A 12 or 13 year-old individual can consent to sexual activity with someone who is less than two years older than them.

I can agree with being able to drive at 16, which feels more adult than turning 18. Maybe they should change the "adult" age to 16?
But, since most people are getting married late, people are becoming an adult in their late 20s/early 30s. Also, I'd be okay with my adult children living at home until marriage or when they get settled.

Goldfinch

No-one is an actual child after experiencing puberty. That is just a fact of nature.

The legal age of majority, though, is entirely an issue of custom and tradition. It will always vary according to culture and political expedience. Some Western countries, like the UK, are considering lowering the age of majority to 16, for instance.
"For there are no works of power, dearly-beloved, without the trials of temptations, there is no faith without proof, no contest without a foe, no victory without conflict. This life of ours is in the midst of snares, in the midst of battles; if we do not wish to be deceived, we must watch: if we want to overcome, we must fight." - St. Leo the Great

BlueInGreen

Quote from: Goldfinch on October 03, 2022, 08:42:41 AM
No-one is an actual child after experiencing puberty. That is just a fact of nature.

The legal age of majority, though, is entirely an issue of custom and tradition. It will always vary according to culture and political expedience. Some Western countries, like the UK, are considering lowering the age of majority to 16, for instance.

As I said, physically an 18 year old isn't a child, but that doesn't. mean one is actually an "adult." Secular law is arbitrary and relative as you noted. What I'm trying to discuss are the moral and ethics behind decision making. Take for example abortion in the US where it is legal in certain states. Okay it's legal, but should one have an abortion? Since we're Catholic the obvious answer is no. Others give zero cr_p about what Catholics think and see abortion as a private matter - perfectly okay under the premises of body autonomy and the belief that the baby isn't a fully human. It is not illegal to cheat on your spouse or to have an open relationship. Modernism looks at marriage as archaic but if one does choose to partake the two parties (or more) have "the right" to make marriage in their image and likeliness, so that permits open marriage and other sexual kinks like BDSM. Further reason being "it's not your business; anything goes as long as there is consent and each party is of age - it doesn't hurt you."

As for lowering the age to 16 I can only see bad things coming from it. Why 16? Why not 15? What does one year matter? Certain industries like the tv/film industry wait in the wings for young actresses to turn 18 for them to sign unto roles that may require nudity (partial or full). Many actresses are more than willing to show skin because they see it as "artistic integrity." The US during a short period discussed to lower voting age to 16 because "more teenagers are becoming political about climate change " via social media.
Cradle Catholic traversing modernism while rediscovering my heritage - in faith and ethnically.

BlueInGreen

Quote from: MushroomRooster on October 02, 2022, 02:08:19 PM
The age of consent at 18 is absurd and under 18, apparently, you'd be considered a "child". I think a 14-year-old person can definitely be an adult if they're raised in that way. Also, why is it that you have to be 18 to get married (without parents' permission) but you can be having sex as young as 12?!

Bold: That time has passed. Even in countries where 10 yr olds ride public transportation alone a 14 year old is still considered a minor and nowhere near being considered an adult. I work with teens - a 14 yr old isn't an adult by any means unless you count a 14 yr old female going through puberty earlier than her male friends. Physically she's maturing faster but emotionally, psychologically and spiritual she's in OmGurd phase.

QuoteLooking at the laws regarding age of consent in Canada:

- A 14 or 15 year-old individual can consent to sexual activity with someone who is less than five years older than them.
- A 12 or 13 year-old individual can consent to sexual activity with someone who is less than two years older than them.

I can agree with being able to drive at 16, which feels more adult than turning 18. Maybe they should change the "adult" age to 16?
But, since most people are getting married late, people are becoming an adult in their late 20s/early 30s. Also, I'd be okay with my adult children living at home until marriage or when they get settled.

I was reading statutory rape laws in the US and at first I thought understood it but then realized there were some nuance to it. In the state of Illinois legal consent to engage in consensual sex is 17. Anyone under 17 cannot give their consent to sex - to either someone 17 or older or to anyone under 17 (basically no sex until each party is 17 yrs of age). One case study was asking the reader to think of the a scenario where the boyfriend just turned 17 while the girlfriend is 16. According to the site, if the 17 year old touches "any sexual organ" of the girlfriend he can be processed as a sex offender. These cases are rare, but it is possible. The chances of being processed as a sex officer increases the age gap widens. If the older party holds a "position of supervision" then the consent law of 17 in Illinois raises to 18. What difference does one year make? 

Cradle Catholic traversing modernism while rediscovering my heritage - in faith and ethnically.