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#1
Its flippin hilarious
#2
It's very funny, but it also reminds me of the words of St. Catherine of Siena who said that homosexuality is revolting even to demons:

QuoteFor this not only causes Me nausea, but displeases even the demons themselves, whom these miserable creatures have chosen as their lords. For Me, this sin against nature is so abominable that, for it alone, five cities were submersed, by virtue of the judgment of My Divine Justice, which could no longer bear them... It is disagreeable to the demon, not because evil displeases them and they find pleasure in good, but because their nature is angelic and thus is repulsed upon seeing such an enormous sin being committed. It is true that it is the demon who hits the sinner with the poisoned arrow of lust, but when a man carries out such a sinful act, the demon leaves.
#3
Quote from: JJoseph on Today at 02:39:08 AMPartial apocatastasis would first of all hold that, in accordance with Church doctrine, souls are either not fully culpable for their errors, or die in Grace and only with venial sins after committing acts of contrition.
First of all forget about apocatastasis; its already been condemened. Try instead to understand the Church's teaching on this subject. These (examples above) souls would die in the state of grace, but would still have to make reparation for their temporal debt by spending time in Purgatory.
QuoteWhat if someone held 98+% of Catholics would be saved, maybe 80% of Orthodox and 60% of Prots (provided they are in good faith in errors) would be saved, and >50% of non-Christians (act of faith in Christ, and contrition, upon their deathbeds), as that CE article also argued over 50% of humanity would be saved?
We don't know the percentages; we must hold as a dogma of the faith that: "outside the Church there is no salvation". These people may save their souls, but they are living in a very perilious state.

QuoteThe missionary endeavors of the Church, especially to non-Christians would continue, especially because no one can determine culpability or lack thereof with absolute certainty in the external forum, and also because their chances of salvation are much better if they become Baptized Christians, especially Catholic Christians.
It is impossible to save one's souls without baptism; and those who die without it, need to have at least baptism of desire. This is not a good situation to be in. "Non-culpability" doesn't save a soul, it is faith and grace.

QuoteI think the kind of arguments set forth in the 1911 CE are a development from harsher, more rigorist views held by some about 300 to 400 years ago, probably upon deeper study of especially the Eastern Church Fathers. Eastern Church Fathers like the two Eastern Saint Gregorys etc, were very devout, very orthodox, very anti-heresy, but also mild and merciful. Only God knows for sure in the end, but we can hope and pray for many to be saved.
True, the Eastern Fathers are much milder on the topics of grace and predestination; but they are just as adamant on the necessity of baptism.
I agree we have an obligation to pray for the salvation of all men. Our Lord commands us to:
St. Paul's Epistle to Tim (I Tim.2.4)
Quote1.I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men:  2 For kings, and for all that are in high station: that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life in all piety and chastity.  3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour,  4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth
#4
Stubb:
QuotePope Pius XI, Divini Illius Magistri
"... God Himself made the Church a sharer in the divine magisterium and by His divine benefit unable to be mistaken."

Pope Leo XIII, Caritatis Studium
The Magisterium "could by no means commit itself to erroneous teaching."
So why do you quote the Popes on the authority of the magisterium, if they can teach heresy?
Your idea of "magisterium" is so convoluted: "It is magisterium if it teaches the truth; if it doesn't teach the truth, it isn't magisterium". In other words the Pope can teach the truth in one instance and then not teach the truth, even error and heresy in the next; what are faithful Catholics to do? How shall they know which is which? Why consult with Stubborn or any other layman and ask them; or decide for themselves. There isn't any difference between the Pope and any other layman; either one can be right or wrong on matters of faith or morals.
#5
Stubb, yes "here we go again" indeed!  :laugh:
Quoteo you agree that when the Church uses the term "Universal Magisterium" that in essence it means "all those things that the Church has taught always and everywhere since the time of the Apostles?"
IOW, in "Church speak" the word "Universal" *always* includes the element of time which *always* dates back to the time of the Apostles.
No, "Universal" means: "addressed to the whole Church"; the teaching of what is always and everywhere been taught is termed: "Traditional". 
Secondly, the Magisterium can teach truths that were sometimes disputed in the Church such as the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception and Papal Infallibility etc. And oblige the faithful to assent even to obliging an act of faith from them in said doctrine.

QuoteSo to say "the pope's universal and ordinary magisterium" is at best, nonsensical.
No it isn't; the Pope speaks for the whole Church and can address the whole Church, therefore he is the "magister" teacher for the whole Church; thus universal (the whole Church) magisterium.
The Church speaks through the mouth of the Pope:
Pope Pius XI "Casti Connubii":
QuoteThe Church speaks through our mouth
He is therefore the teacher of both the bishops and of the faithful ('feed my lambs, feed my sheep')

QuoteAs for your "pope of the pope" comment, per *Gal. 1:8, we are not only expected to know when we hear heresy, per **Mat. 7:15 we are warned to avoid it.
Galatians is true, but it doesn't apply as you want it to. If the Pope or the Pope in union with the bishops could teach heresy at any time, Catholics would be left helpless as to when they were teaching the truth and when error; since Our Lord left a living teaching body (magisterium) composed of Peter and the Apostles and their successors to preach the faith, and He commanded us to hear them under penalty of being excluded from the Church; then when and at what time did the Church begin being able to teach heresy? Soon after the death of St. Peter or of the last Apostle St. John (the "dissapeared Church theory of the Protestants etc.)
If the Pope can teach one thing and you and other laymen have the right to censor him; then indeed you are "the Pope of the Pope"; since the rest of us would be better advised to listen to J.Q. Regular Catholic guy, than to the Vicar of Christ, whom Our Lord prayed that his faith would not fail, and that he should "confirm his brethren" and said that the Holy Ghost would be with him until the end of time. So when did Our Lord's prayers for Peter and his successors fail? When did the Holy Ghost "drop the ball"? If Peter can teach heresy at any time, then who do we turn to for the truth?

QuoteI'm sure you will completely agree here with Fr. Wathen saying: "We can judge for our own sake that a heresy has been publicly pronounced, that is not questionable, that's just a matter of observing what has been said, and we can judge that matter as easily as we can judge the pronouncements of a protestant minister. I mean, if a protestant minster says something that is contrary to the faith, it's not crime or anything for us to say, "That's heresy". It does not matter who says it, if it's contrary to the faith, its heresy."
We can indeed; but how do you explain the fact that these heresies are coming from the Pope and the bishops united to him? In other words, if the Church is the only means of salvation, and this salvation is transmitted through its teaching the true faith; enacting laws for the salvation of souls and dispensing the means of grace through valid sacraments; which Our Lord promised that he would maintain through all the ages until the end of the world. How to explain the fact that since Vatican II, heretical doctrines; evil laws and invalid sacraments have issued from what appears to be the Pope and the bishops in union with him?
In other words if the Church can issue heretical doctrines, evil laws and invalid sacraments, then she isn't who she has always claimed to be, the sole ark of salvation.

QuoteThe difference between us is that sedes wrongfully believe popes are always divinely protected from the sin of heresy.
You have been arguing with sedes for a long time, how often have sedes claimed that the Popes are protected from sin?
From teaching heresy is a doctrine of the Church.
Here is one of many quotes I can supply; this one from Pius VI condemning the errors of Eybel
QuotePius VI, "Super Soliditate, Nov. 28, 1786;  (pgs. 49-50; "Papal Teachings, The Church")
The errors of Eybel

While St. Augustine tells us that "it is in the chair of unity that God has placed the doctrine of truth", there is nothing, on the contrary, that the unfortunate writer does not use to attack and outrage in every possible way this See of Peter where the Fathers have unanimously recognized and venerated that Chair "in which alone unity was to be conserved by all Christians, and from which flow out to all the churches the rights of communion which we must venerate"; "with which it is necessary for every church to be in agreement, that is to say, the faithful from whatever area they come". (St. Irenaeus, Adv. Haer., III, 3)
ibid, pg. 51: St. Cyprian expresses himself in the following terms: "There is only one God, only one Christ, only one Church, and only one Chair founded on Peter by the word of Jesus Christ", and he declares openly "that the Chair of Peter is this principal Church from which springs the sacerdotal unity to which error has no access".
pg. 60 ibid. The Church is certainly the one flock of Jesus Christ, who is reigning in heaven, its one Supreme Pastor. He has left it a visible Pastor here on earth, a man who alone is his supreme Vicar, so that in hearing him, the sheep hear in his voice the voice of Jesus Christ Himself, lest seduced by the voice of strangers they be led astray into noxious and deadly pastures.
So we hear from the Fathers of the Church: 1. St. Augustine: it is on the See of St. Peter that the doctrine of truth has been placed by God. 2. St. Irenaeus: All of the faithful must be in agreement with the teaching of the Pope. 3. Error has no access to the Chair of St. Peter. 

Quote*Gal. 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.

**Mat. 7:15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Again if the Pope and the bishops can teach heresy, then when did they begin to teach heresy? Then we have to go back to all the teachings of the Popes in the history of the Church and begin sifting through them, since we cannot be sure what parts are true and what not. And if the Popes can teach heresy, then certainly the Popes and bishops united to them can also, and we have to throw out the teachings of the Church Councils also.
#6
Very good; and very true!
#7
De Santis does not stand a chance to win the Presidency; at least not at this time. He is an excellent governor and very sharp on his feet and responding to the hostile questions of the Press (as if there were any other kind for a Republican); but he lacks Trumps charisma and ability to communicate to the non-traditional Republican voters, such as the blacks, Hispanics; blue collar workers etc.
#8
Quote from: LausTibiChriste on Today at 05:03:56 AM
Quote from: drummerboy on Today at 12:51:51 AM
Quote from: james03 on May 16, 2024, 08:06:28 AMSpiritual Retreats:

You could try a pilgrimage.  Three Hearts Pilgrimage will be in October.  Very well attended.

https://www.threeheartspilgrimage.org/

 The wife and myself have a retreat scheduled in a few months with the Byzantine monks at Holy Resurrection in St. Nazianz, WI.  And to think I grew up in the area and never visited, now I'm fixing my mistake. 


Let us know how it goes, sounds awesome

Yes, we've always wanted to do a couples' retreat.

We had a 3 day-er set with the SSPX, then, pregnancy stopped that.
#9
70 appears to be the magic number. Cardinal Billot argued that peaceful acceptance of a Pope is an infallible sign of his being pope.

As much as many won't like to admit it, John XXIII was neither unrecognized, nor resisted.

The same goes for Paul VI until the middle of 64, certainly 65, and then 67 for sure.

70 appears numerous times in Salvation History. The exile as Clau said, and the Great Western Schism and Avignon Papacy.

We are approaching that.

In my opinion, Recognize and Resist and/or Formal SV cannot continue indefinitely, and after the average lifespan of a man (70 years), both positions make the institutional Church useless and moot. The flip side of this is that 99% of us cannot simply walk down the street to our local parish to nourish our faith. We will be given stones instead of bread.

There indeed have been lengthy periods of personal corruption amongst clergy, bishops and popes, but this did not impact the Ecclesia Docens.

Likewise, certain areas saw the eradication of the Church and her members (England, Japan, Northern Africa, Red North Korea and China), but never has this been seemingly universal like today.

The building says "Catholic" on the school, parish, university, and hospital; what actually takes place inside is far from it.

This appears to mirror what took place in the time of St. Athanasius, though no analogy is perfect. Our Lord Himself seemed to predict it when He said beware of false christs and false prophets, as did many theologians who predicted a false or ape church, as well as the meaning of the abomination of desolation (O'Reilly, Sheen, Fenton).

Lastly, the messages of our lady at la salette and of good success.
#10
Quote from: ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez on Today at 05:24:04 AM
Quote from: Bonaventure on May 12, 2024, 08:29:05 AM
Quote from: AlfredtheGreat on May 12, 2024, 04:57:44 AM
Quote from: Bonaventure on May 11, 2024, 11:48:14 PM
Quote from: ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez on September 12, 2021, 01:10:52 PM
Quote from: AlNg on September 12, 2021, 12:55:36 PMSo it is OK for Catholics to worship with the Jews in a Jewish temple?

You're not the schismatic troll AlNg777, are you?

Please explain more. Does this user have a previous history of trolling? Can you corroborate?

What is it with you and thread necromancy?

In light of his latest posts, decided to dig.

A half dozen or so EO trolls were active on the fish forum.  There was one called AlNg777.

He's gone.

God have mercy on me for not catching and banning him sooner.