Forum improvements?

[Baylee]

I think down-votes invite displays of animosity beyond the content of the post itself.  This is what I've seen elsewhere.  If a member wants to object to the message and not the messenger, it is better done directly, i.m.o.  Dislike of a more personal nature is thus forced to be aired, and therefore has a tendency to restrain the responder because it's within public view.

I would also add that the ability to downvote can be an occasion of sin (ie. revenge).

[awkward customer]

How about addressing the kind of blanket-bombing posting that the Ukraine war thread is constantly being subjected to?

Sometimes there are 4,5,6 posts in a row with huge images and text, all of them lifted directly from the MSM.  This is bullying, IMO. 

This boot-stomping posting style breaks up discussions and is a general distraction which inhibits the thread. 

Asking Xavier to stop won't help.  People have tried that over and over again and he just continues.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion on the war but this aggressive and inconsiderate posting style is unacceptable.

[Xavier]

Nope, it's you who are trying to bully me. There is no rule about number of posts in a thread or in a page; if there was, it would apply uniformly to all posters and I would observe it. Since it's an ongoing thread, I post updates there as and when they are available. I format etc sometimes, otherwise I just post as I find it. All of it is relevant. For e.g. the number of casualties as per the latest available figures. Otherwise, news about what some commander or general or military analyst has said about the War. Just because you support the Kremlin's Invaders and want to post Pro-Russia material - which I'm not trying to bully you into not doing - doesn't give you the right to try to bully me into not posting Pro-Ukraine material.

[Instaurare omnia]

How about addressing the kind of blanket-bombing posting that the Ukraine war thread is constantly being subjected to? [...]

Even if one avoids the more worldly parts of this forum, there's still Xavier clogging up the more theologically focused conversations with indifferentism, trad-bashing, and base venial curiosity. This is the very sort of thing that pushes away well-meaning people from participating, both those who are better-informed and those earnestly beginning to seek some truth amid the dregs of the internet.

[Xavier]

I'm going to ignore AC for a while for my peace of mind. If you don't want to read my posts, then do the same to me. Simple.

[awkward customer]

Even if one avoids the more worldly parts of this forum, there's still Xavier clogging up the more theologically focused conversations with indifferentism, trad-bashing, and base venial curiosity. This is the very sort of thing that pushes away well-meaning people from participating, both those who are better-informed and those earnestly beginning to seek some truth amid the dregs of the internet.

I've noticed this too.  Xavier drowns out all serious and complex discussion in a sea of cut and paste.  Not to mention all the evangelical stuff he posts and the countless threads he starts ...

[Baylee]

Even if one avoids the more worldly parts of this forum, there's still Xavier clogging up the more theologically focused conversations with indifferentism, trad-bashing, and base venial curiosity. This is the very sort of thing that pushes away well-meaning people from participating, both those who are better-informed and those earnestly beginning to seek some truth amid the dregs of the internet.

I've noticed this too.  Xavier drowns out all serious and complex discussion in a sea of cut and paste.  Not to mention all the evangelical stuff he posts and the countless threads he starts ...

Not to mention all of the insincere sedevacantist "polls".

[Miriam_M]

I would just say that sometimes the worst in us comes out when we don't recognize boundaries and distinctions, or when we merely ignore them.  A general prohibition from using Suscipe Domine as personal blog territory would solve a host of problems.  Xavier is not the only one with a tendency to post material better suited to a blog than to serious debate.  There are many categories of material he posts that belong in the blog genre; an example is his frequent introduction of "Wouldn't It be Wonderful If...? topics.

Yes, it would be wonderful.  People who own blogs write those kinds of idealistic reflections.  In some cases, those posts on other blog sites are so individualistic as to have little application to others.  (They are like entries in a diary.)  In other cases, they are so universally obvious as to be superfluous, and one wonders why the blogger is stating something that few would oppose.  But in both cases, such entries satisfy the needs of the blogger, not the needs (or, necessarily, interests) of a forum community which seeks to interact with one another and not merely read pronouncements.

[Xavier]

IO: I don't know Theology? You do know I considered being a Priest and spent some time in an SSPX Seminary, right? Or don't you? You're a newbie here, so maybe you don't. But I did. I had to return mainly because of financial difficulties. You see, I was born in a poor family, and my dad died at a young age. And so return I did, as my dear Mother depends on me, the eldest son, to provide for our family. And by God's Grace, I got a Great Job recently, in one of the Best Investment Banks in the World, and so the Almighty has made all things well for me. Glory be to Him forever!

This is what a Priest wrote to me about this 1P5 article on Purgatory: https://onepeterfive.com/purgatory-saved-fire/

""Dear Sir:
I have read many articles about Purgatory in my lifetime —- 82 years old and 54 years as a priest.
I just read yours on the 1Peter5 webpage.
Yours is the best I have ever read.
Thank you.
Please keep up your good work.
Fr. Edward B. Connolly "

After you get an endorsement like that from a Priest for one of your writings, you can tell me I don't know Theology. I prove what I write with multiple sources, and that also applies to the Moral Theology of Just War which clearly shows Putin's Kremlin is waging an unjust one. Accepting that or not is your prerogative. Being free to say it is mine.

[Xavier]

Gee, how "protestant" of me to prove, from multiple sources in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition, the Doctrine of Purgatory to Protestants. I guess this must be the "indifferentism" you are talking about, since everyone knows Protestants believe in Purgatory and Indulgences, and rely on Masses, Communions and Mary's Promises to avoid Purgatory. </sarcasm>

Purgatory: They Shall Be Saved, but Only So as by Fire
Nishant Xavier July 9, 2020 0 Comments
When Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ instituted the Holy Mass as a perpetual sacrifice of His Body and His Blood for the remission of our sins (Mt. 26:26–28; Mk. 14:22–24; Lk. 22:19–20; 1 Cor. 10:16–18; etc.), it is clear that He intended in a special way that the New Testament Sacrifice of the Holy Mass be the perfect fulfilment of the Old Covenant sacrifices. Now, if even these were offered up for the remission of the sins of the faithful departed (2 Macc. 12:43–46) — for it is written,"And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection[.] ... It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins." — it follows that Holy Mass is the greatest sacrifice to alleviate the terrifying sufferings of the faithful departed that God has ever given to man.

Since Protestants do not accept the Book of Maccabees (although they should; the 4th-century canons of Carthage, of Hippo, and the decrees of Pope St. Damasus's Council of Rome all contain it as canonical), they often ask Catholics:"All right. Maccabees teaches Purgatory. But where is Purgatory in the New Testament? Wouldn't Our Lord Jesus Christ or one of His apostles have mentioned it?"

The First Proof: Direct Proof from 1 Corinthians 3:13–15
Chapter 3 of St. Paul's first epistle to the Corinthians is perhaps the most direct proof in Sacred Scripture of purgatorial fire and merits. According to Catholic doctrine, bad works are penalized by God; bad Christians, whose works are burned up, will therefore suffer loss and be saved only through fire. This is Purgatory and their bad works or sins are why Purgatory is necessary. This doctrine is plainly taught by St. Paul the Apostle.

Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

St. Basil the Great teaches:

I think that the noble athletes of God, who have wrestled all their lives with the invisible enemies, after they have escaped all of their persecutions and have come to the end of life, are examined by the prince of this world; and if they are found to have any wounds from their wrestling, any stains or effects of sin, they are detained. If, however they are found unwounded and without stain, they are, as unconquered, brought by Christ into their rest. (Homilies on the Psalms 7:2)

What could possibly be clearer? The bad Christian is saved only through fire because of his bad works. The good Christian receives a reward from the Lord on that day because of his good works. This text clearly shows that good works done with faith in Christ are necessary post-justification and contribute to the soul's sanctification. If performed, they entitle us by God's grace to a heavenly reward, because God is so good. If neglected, they demand punishment, because God is holy.

The Second Proof: The Prison of Spirits St. Peter speaks of
St. Peter the Apostle twice proves Purgatory when he speaks of a mysterious Prison of Spirits, in which the Gospel was preached, and from which souls can be delivered. Now, this cannot refer to Heaven, for Heaven is not a prison. But neither on the other hand can it refer to Hell, for there is no deliverance from Hell. It necessarily follows that this constitutes proof of some third intermediate state between Heaven and Hell, which Holy Mother Church aptly calls Purgatory.

1 Pet. 3: "Because Christ also died once for our sins, the just for the unjust: that he might offer us to God, being put to death indeed in the flesh, but enlivened in the spirit, In which also coming he preached to those spirits that were in prison[.]"

1 Pet. 4: "For, for this cause was the gospel preached also to the dead: that they might be judged indeed according to men, in the flesh; but may live according to God, in the Spirit."

Bp. Challoner justly comments on 1 Pet. 3:19:

See here a proof of a third place, or middle state of souls: for these spirits in prison, to whom Christ went to preach, after his death, were not in heaven; nor yet in the hell of the damned: because heaven is no prison: and Christ did not go to preach to the damned.

The Third Proof: The Lord Jesus mentions the same prison
Mt. 5: "If therefore thou offer thy gift at the altar, and there thou remember that thy brother hath any thing against thee; Leave there thy offering before the altar, and go first to be reconciled to thy brother: and then coming thou shalt offer thy gift. Be at agreement with thy adversary betimes, whilst thou art in the way with him: lest perhaps the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison[.] Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing."

St. Cyprian eloquently argues based on this prison:

It is one thing to stand for pardon, another thing to attain to glory: it is one thing, when cast into prison, not to go out thence until one has paid the uttermost farthing; another thing at once to receive the wages of faith and courage. It is one thing, tortured by long suffering for sins, to be cleansed and long purged by fire; another to have purged all sins by suffering. It is one thing, in fine, to be in suspense till the sentence of God at the day of judgment; another to be at once crowned by the Lord. (Letter 51)

Tertullian interprets:

Now the friendly understanding you will have to carry out must arise from your observance of the compact: you must never think of getting back any of the things which you have abjured, and have restored to him, lest he should summon you as a fraudulent man, and a transgressor of your agreement, before God the Judge (for in this light do we read of him, in another passage, as 'the accuser of the brethren,' or saints, where reference is made to the actual practice of legal prosecution); and lest this Judge deliver you over to the angel who is to execute the sentence, and he commit you to the prison of hell, out of which there will be no dismissal until the smallest even of your delinquencies be paid off in the period before the resurrection. What can be a more fitting sense than this? What a truer interpretation? (A Treatise on the Soul, 35)

Once more: a prison from which souls can be delivered is neither Heaven nor Hell proper. But a spiritual prison from which prisoners depart when they have paid the last farthing is precisely such an imprisonment in an intermediate state.

The Fourth Proof: Our Lord speaks of lesser stripes in punishment
Lk. 12: "The lord of that servant will come in the day that he hopeth not, and at the hour that he knoweth not, and shall separate him, and shall appoint him his portion with unbelievers.  And that servant who knew the will of his lord, and prepared not himself, and did not according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. And unto whomsoever much is given, of him much shall be required: and to whom they have committed much, of him they will demand the more."

This follows the Old Testament requirement:

Deut. 25: "And if they see that the offender be worthy of stripes: they shall lay him down, and shall cause him to be beaten before them. According to the measure of the sin shall the measure also of the stripes be[.]"

Now, those who are beaten eternally have their lot with the unbelievers. But those who sinned in ignorance will deserve lesser stripes — i.e., non-eternal or only temporal punishment. It follows that these souls will ultimately be liberated.

St. Augustine persuasively says:

But temporary punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by others after death, by others both now and then; but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But of those who suffer temporary punishments after death, all are not doomed to those everlasting pains which are to follow that judgment; for to some, as we have already said, what is not remitted in this world is remitted in the next, that is, they are not punished with the eternal punishment of the world to come. (City of God 21:13)

Another related proof comes from Our Lord saying some sins are forgiven in this world, implying some others could be forgiven in the world to come (Mt. 12:32). As the Catholic Encyclopedia shows, St. Augustine was one to make this argument. And Pope St. Gregory, the Great Dialogist, was another. We will quote the latter here. To the question "Whether there be any Fire of Purgatory in the next life," the saintly pope answers in the affirmative, saying, "We must believe that before the day of judgment there is a Purgatory fire for certain small sins: because our Saviour saith, that he which speaketh blasphemy against the holy Ghost, that it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come. Out of which sentence we learn, that some sins are forgiven in this world, and some other may be pardoned in the next: for that which is denied concerning one sin, is consequently understood to be granted touching some other. But yet this, as I said, we have not to believe but only concerning little and very small sins, as, for example, daily idle talk, immoderate laughter, negligence in the care of our family (which kind of offences scarce can they avoid, that know in what sort sin is to be shunned), ignorant errors in matters of no great weight: all which sins be punished after death, if men procured not pardon and remission for them in their lifetime" (Dialogues, Book 4, Chapter 39: Whether there be any Purgatory etc?).

The Fifth Proof: St. Paul prays for his departed Christian friend Onesiphorus
St. Paul offers a final simple proof: "The Lord give mercy to the house of Onesiphorus: because he hath often refreshed me, and hath not been ashamed of my chain" (2 Tim. 1:16). Now, it is manifest in the text, and not infrequently admitted even by Protestant commentators, that Onesiphorus was a departed Christian, whose works of mercy St. Paul calls to mind.

St. Thomas admirably argues: "Now there is no need to pray for the dead who are in heaven, for they are in no need; nor again for those who are in hell, because they cannot be loosed from sins." This magnificent proof of St. Thomas is a final proof of Purgatory.

St. Chrysostom comments:

Let us weep for these; let us assist them according to our power; let us think of some assistance for them, small though it be, yet still let us assist them. How and in what way? By praying and entreating others to make prayers for them, by continually giving to the poor on their behalf. (St. John Chrysostom, Homilies on Philippians, 3)

Conclusion: Purgatory is real. Good news: You can avoid it!
When Our Lord spoke of His Sacred Body and Precious Blood being offered up for the "remission of sins," the promised remission applies in an exemplary manner to the Church Suffering, the faithful departed. Holy Mass exceeds by far the sacrifices of the Old Law and more wondrously liberates the suffering souls in Purgatory. Many who could never have been liberated by the sacrifices of the righteous Maccabees, even if those sacrifices had been offered till the end of time, already have been or will be liberated according to the plan of God before the end of time. How grateful, then, we should be to have the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass to offer! How blessed to know there is a Purgatory! They who do not believe in Purgatory have no good hope of escaping it. Those of us who believe and confess that there is a Purgatory can easily, if we co-operate with God's Grace, avoid going there.

God and Mary have revealed, with Church approval, a Life Offering. Jesus and Mary have promised all who offer their lives, all their Masses and Communions, good works, prayers and sacrifices, to Jesus and Mary, for the salvation of souls, that they can avoid Purgatory and go straight to Heaven.

[Kaesekopf]

Gee, how "protestant" of me to prove, from multiple sources in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition, the Doctrine of Purgatory to Protestants. I guess this must be the "indifferentism" you are talking about, since everyone knows Protestants believe in Purgatory and Indulgences, and rely on Masses, Communions and Mary's Promises to avoid Purgatory. </sarcasm>

Bro, you literally are proving their point with this post.

[Xavier]

When a false accusation is made against me, Kaese, do I not have the right to respond? I was accused of being "indifferentist" so I cited that to prove I was not. I am not an indifferentist and never have been. The one thing IO might be talking about is where I said Catholics today should Evangelize more, as the Great Catholic Saints of old like St. Francis Xavier did, and as today unfortunately some Protestants imo do better than us. Not only I, but Arvinger and others have said similar things. Such observations, whether one agrees or disagrees, is not indifferentism.

I debate, dialogue and discuss with you or anyone else who quotes my post and asks for a response. In that particular thread - which btw is widely read, with some 5000 replies and 115,000 views, and also has many other Pro-Ukraine posters beside me, like Prayerful, Melkite, Antoninus, Arvinger and others, so this is hardly a lone opinion here - I posted news updates because it was an ongoing thread. At one time, it seemed possible the conflict could result in World War III. Now, most likely, it will not, and that's a good thing. I don't try to curtail other people's freedom to post what they think or want on topics Catholics clearly can disagree about. So I don't understand why AC or IO wants to do that to me.

[Mono no aware]

In that particular thread - which btw is widely read, with some 5000 replies and 115,000 views, and also has many other Pro-Ukraine posters beside me, like Prayerful, Melkite, Antoninus, Arvinger and others, so this is hardly a lone opinion here - I posted news updates because it was an ongoing thread.

You continually mention that there are others on here who take a pro-Ukraine stance.  And indeed there are.  I, for one, have benefited from reading posts by Arvinger and Prayerful.  You need to consider, then, why multiple people are singling you out from among the pro-Ukraine users for having a posting style redolent of trolling, spamming, thread-clogging, and thread-hogging.  Try to have an ounce of self-consciousness and reflect on why your posting in particular is irking people.

By the way, there are some typos in your new loud signature.  There's "color" in code brackets, and the book of James is abbreviated either "Jas" or "Jm," but not "Jam."  And the bright red font is, as always, as multiple posters have told you, an absolute eyesore.  For a self-styled evangelist, you sure do have a strange knack for making the Word of God appear off-putting.

[Xavier]

Edit: And it's nice to see you back, Jayne. Hope you and your family are doing well. God bless you.

@Pon: Is that so? And do you not consider that when I oppose dangerous errors, I also make dangerous enemies who hate me? So for e.g. when I say it's totally wrong to say Fatima is demonic, the person who said that has held a grudge against me ever since, even though I've long since forgiven her for her taunts and insults directed against me. And if I criticize sede-vacantism, especially perpetual 65+ year sedevacantism, likewise, apart from a few sedes who disagree genially and respectfully, and with whom I always do the same, some sedes also attack me for that. And that's also ok. I preach the Truth out of Love and I prove what I write from multiple sources, just like I preach to you, Pon, that you should return to Confession and the Sacraments to be saved, and Jesus Christ has proved His Divinity by Eucharistic Miracles, because I want you to go to Heaven and be saved - out of love for your Soul, and nothing else. So also, when I oppose what the Kremlin is doing today - which some people don't like, they attack me instead of just addressing the arguments, and authorities quoted, such as Bishops, Priests or Theologians like Fr. Vittoria I cited from TFP etc - they attack me for that. I quoted more sources than any other pro-Ukraine poster on that thread, and didn't you see Greg viciously attacked Arvinger and Melkite as well? Of course, you either didn't see that, or conveniently ignored it. There's a War going on, and so people will disagree strongly. I have no problem with strong disagreement, but trying to curtail what others post is not reasonable.

You should be more concerned about your Eternal Soul, and your Eternal Happiness, than fonts and typos. You are straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel. I will edit my signature later about the typos, but the font will remain. There is a reason for highlighting the Word of God in a special way. It's because the Word of God is more important than any of the words of man. As a non-believer, I would not expect you to understand. Focus on saving your soul.

[Mono no aware]

I will edit my signature later about the typos, but the font will remain. There is a reason for highlighting the Word of God in a special way. It's because the Word of God is more important than any of the words of man. As a non-believer, I would not expect you to understand. Focus on saving your soul.

I thought the point of evangelization was to strive to reach non-believers.  Shouldn't you try to give the Word of God an appearance of solemnity and sobriety, rather than a font color that suggests exuberance, effeminacy, and garishness?  Even the red-letter Protestant bibles you are aping do not use red font all the way throughout.  Their red font is reserved for the words of Christ, whereas you are giving yours to King David and Ss. James and Paul.  And the Protestant bibles use a crimson font, not bright red.

I used to thank you for your concern for my soul, but I've come to realize you don't actually care.  You routinely bring up my apostasy every time you reply to me, just like you routinely bring up Fatima in your replies to awkward customer.  It's just a rhetorical trick you like to use: it's an ad hominem and a diversion off the topic.