Is "Bible study" as such, truly a Catholic practice ? what can make it so?

Christopher McAvoy · October 02, 2015, 09:15:09 PM

I was recently at a Bible Study with videos by Jeff Cavins at a modernist novus ordo religion church. I should have known better but a fellow sympathetic to traditional things encouraged me to check it out. While I did gain certain insights from the videos I also gained a distinctly protestant individualistic quality from Mr. Cavins, who is a former Assemblies of God pastor who converted to the modernist faith. Cavins is quite similar to Mr. Scott Hahn in spirit, but I'd be hard pressed to point out specific differences.

The general question I have is what makes a good Catholic Bible Study. My only experience with bible study was in the Eastern Orthodox Church where in one it was led by an ex-roman catholic priest who studied at Harvard (Fr Ted Pulcini). The other was by a former anglican bible scholar named Symeon Jekel. Both of thse bible studies were strongly tied in to patristic commentaries on the gospels. They focused on the symbolism of specific passages and had various church fathers comments compared to show how it all ties in with a unified theme.

They had different lay people take turns reading the commentaries and at the very end could share their personal views very briefly. The use of patristics was siimilar to the Catena Aurea, but perhaps less of a hodge podge and more specific fathers. Mr. Jekel emphasized the use of the commentaries of St Venerable Bede, St Jerome, St. Augustine of Hippo and perhaps most of all St. Theophylact of Ohrid. (Theophylact was featured in the Catena aurea as well).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophylact_of_Ohrid

When I talked prviately with DRE named Sue Reilly I realized she was a regular attendee at St Mary Mother of God in DC. I expected better of her as she had recommended the Cavins video for this young adults bible study. She seemed upset with me and commented about how great opus dei was and that as long as Mr. Cavins acceped the Pope he was plenty catholic enough. I mentioned that simply claiming to accept the Pope did not alone gaurantee orthodoxy of belief or teaching, which she did not want to talk about. essentially whatever was trendy and popular in the average parish was what she went along with. A groupthink "do not question the status quo approach"

I mentioned that the Orthodox bible studies seemed more catholic than this bible study I was met with disdain and contempt for flirting with dangerous orthodox heretics. I was dismayed by this but considered them to be quite ignorant and partisan to make such comments but at the same time I understand we all like to toot our own horn irregardless of our foolishness. Sadly, as long as they flirt with protestant bible studies and consider the E. Orthodox ones to somehow be worse I find them rather hypocritical neo-cons with a cultural superiority complex.

Lydia Purpuraria · October 02, 2015, 10:40:26 PM

I've never been to a trad Bible study, Christopher. I used to be in a (novus ordo) Bible study when I first converted, but I had to quit because I grew tired of the "protestant" flavor of which you speak.

Did you mention to Ms Reilly that JP2 said the Orthodox Church was the other lung of the Church? "that the Church must breathe with both lungs..." (if she knew that I imagine her tone would've changed somewhat- LOL) Well... Would that both "lungs" would be united again. That would be a good thing, imo.

I'm not sure what the answer is, though. I think your Orthodox Bible study (with emphasis on patristic fathers commentaries) would certainly be a good model to base it off of with a good priest leading it, probably incorporated with Catechism? ... it would be far superior to the NO-style study you mentioned. But, again, I'm not sure if this would be considered an authentically Catholic or traditional practice. So hopefully someone else will pop in and actually answer your question (because I obviously didn't- LOL).

Gardener · October 03, 2015, 12:16:02 AM

There are many ways to study scripture: Mass, Rosary, Daily devotionals, etc.

Scripture was not given merely to sit on a shelf.

Ultimately, interpretation rests in the sphere of the Church.

But as St. Jerome said, "Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ".

Lynne · October 03, 2015, 06:16:17 AM

N.O. Bible Studies are awful (there, I said it). I guess their hearts are in the right place. I've tried 3 at 3 different churches, including Jeff Cavin's program. It leaned heavily on the 1992 Catechism. The other 2 were extremely worthless, faith-sharing exercises. Blind leading the blind I say.

I have found this to be very useful...

Brother Francis from the Saint Benedict Center on the Gospel of St. John. I'd like to get others of his.

MundaCorMeum · October 03, 2015, 07:00:09 AM

Personally, I don't like doing group Bible studies. Other books are fine,, but I'd rather read Scripture as a personal devotion, or prayerful meditation, by myself. My favorite Catholic Bible commentary is a book called, A Practical Commentary on Hol Scripture , by Bishop Frederick Justus Knecht. I think it would work well in a group setting, too, for those who enjoy that. Here's a link for the book: http://www.amazon.com/A-Practical-Commentary-Holy-Scripture/dp/0895557576

I also learn about Scripture through homeschooling my children. Our curriculum includes Bible History, and Scripture study is pretty prominent throughout their religion classes.

Lynne · October 03, 2015, 07:25:32 AM

Quote from: MundaCorMeum on October 03, 2015, 07:00:09 AM
Personally, I don't like doing group Bible studies. Other books are fine,, but I'd rather read Scripture as a personal devotion, or prayerful meditation, by myself. My favorite Catholic Bible commentary is a book called, A Practical Commentary on Hol Scripture , by Bishop Frederick Justus Knecht. I think it would work well in a group setting, too, for those who enjoy that. Here's a link for the book: http://www.amazon.com/A-Practical-Commentary-Holy-Scripture/dp/0895557576

I also learn about Scripture through homeschooling my children. Our curriculum includes Bible History, and Scripture study is pretty prominent throughout their religion classes.

That looks good!

It's on archive.org too...

https://archive.org/details/apracticalcommen00knecuoft

Parresia · October 03, 2015, 08:07:54 AM

While there are many lousy Bible study programs out there, and many people leading Bible studies who probably should not be, I see no reason at all why studying the Bible would not be a Catholic practice. After all, it was St. Jerome himself who said that ignorance of scripture was ignorance of Christ. Throughout history, in times when the Church was threatened and people were being pulled away from the Faith, had the average lay person known scripture better (and priests for that matter), it might have been harder for people to get sucked into non-Catholic groups.

Jayne · October 03, 2015, 10:08:33 AM

The ladies group from my diocesan TLM community has decided to do a Bible study together. I did express reservations, but some of them felt strongly about it, so I went along with it. I was able to obtain everyone's agreement to have our priest supervise us (which he is willing to do) so I am hoping this will prevent the potential problems from arising.

Melanie_T · October 03, 2015, 04:35:56 PM

Traditionally, I think bible study was at home. My grandmothers bible has an letter from the pope that reading the Bible for 15 mins a day is a good thing. I have attended a bible study group through the Christadelphians.....now that is an interesting take on Christianity. I somewhat foolishly mentioned this in the confessional and whilst pleased that the priest did not go up in flames, I was given a short and very much to the point lecture on placing myself in danger in the matter of faith.

Mel

Arun · October 03, 2015, 11:22:02 PM

i know some people like to privately do the three OT one NT chapter every day, like seminarians do.

jovan66102 · October 04, 2015, 01:30:53 AM

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with Bible study, as long as a Catholic Bible is used and, as Jayne pointed out, there is a Priest involved. The problem in prot/heretical 'Bible study' is individual interpretation. Only the Magisterium can interpret Scripture.

Prayerful · October 04, 2015, 10:49:49 AM

In answer to OP, yes, but too many NO use Protestant textbooks to guide the study or use works of people with a heavy Protestant leaning.

Lynne · October 04, 2015, 11:09:40 AM

Quote from: jovan66102 on October 04, 2015, 01:30:53 AM
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with Bible study, as long as a Catholic Bible is used and, as Jayne pointed out, there is a Priest involved. The problem in prot/heretical 'Bible study' is individual interpretation. Only the Magisterium can interpret Scripture.

One of the 3 Bible studies I tried was lead by a priest. The materials for the study still involved faith-sharing (the blind leading the blind).

And the priest has since been arrested on stalking charges.

I would have loved to have been in a Bible study which was priest-led *and* just used a Catholic commentary...

Another Bible-study was led by a nun who hated Latin and drove a Prius.

Prayerful · October 04, 2015, 11:16:47 AM

Quote from: Lynne on October 04, 2015, 11:09:40 AM
Quote from: jovan66102 on October 04, 2015, 01:30:53 AM
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with Bible study, as long as a Catholic Bible is used and, as Jayne pointed out, there is a Priest involved. The problem in prot/heretical 'Bible study' is individual interpretation. Only the Magisterium can interpret Scripture.

One of the 3 Bible studies I tried was lead by a priest. The materials for the study still involved faith-sharing (the blind leading the blind).

And the priest has since been arrested on stalking charges.

I would have loved to have been in a Bible study which was priest-led *and* just used a Catholic commentary...

Another Bible-study was led by a nun who hated Latin and drove a Prius.

Old radical left nuns are a bane of the Faithful, rather than being a bane of anti-Christ.

Miriam_M · October 04, 2015, 06:59:35 PM

Quote from: Prayerful on October 04, 2015, 10:49:49 AM
In answer to OP, yes, but too many NO use Protestant textbooks to guide the study or use works of people with a heavy Protestant leaning.

Or they (Catholic lay people) engage in Private Interpretation during the "study," and no one corrects them because no one authentically trained in the traditional Catholic viewpoint is in charge. (SEen it often, since I've been asked sometimes to be part of such studies or even to moderate, because of my training. When I'm not moderating, it becomes a Private Interpretation free for all, with massive amateur guesswork being the agenda.)

Catholics in general are massively ignorant of Scripture, both in content and in interpretation, but that is also because the Church has failed to include it as part of important childhood or adult catechesis.

I have never listened to, or participated in Cavin's structured "Bible Journey" thingy, because I would want to avoid the kind of disappointing and dangerous Amateur Hour within a group environment that I have experienced before. (As to Scriptural theology, there's nothing to "discuss." The Church has spoken.) However, in his defense, and when he's not slobbering all over JP2 (who "formed" him, he likes to say

), Cavins does a good job of explaining OT Types as fulfilled in Jesus and also OT spirituality. I make that observation based on his single lectures on particular OT passages. And since Scripture was my graduate area of study, I can verify that when he explains those things, he is in accord with Tradition.

So I don't know what Protestant viewpoint Cavins was communicating to our OP (indeed he may have), but again, when I've heard single recorded lectures by Cavins confined to particular OT passages, I have never heard a modernistic or Protestant viewpoint. (I haven't' heard all of them, maybe about 10?). No modernistic associations came up in those episodes. Outside of those episodes, Cavins is a cheerleader for V2 and for JP2, all the way. And it's very possible that his series contains intro and other material that sounds quite Protestant. Again, that's why I stay away from any organized "program" which includes it.