Study on Natural vs. Artificial Immunity to Covid

[Miriam_M]

Recent Israeli findings, published by The Epoch Times, but I will post the entire story:

Natural Immunity More Protective Over Time Than COVID-19 Vaccination: Study

BY ZACHARY STIEBER December 10, 2021 Updated: December 10, 2021

Immunity people enjoy after recovering from COVID-19 is better than the protection bestowed from vaccination, according to a new study from Israel.

Researchers analyzing data from the county's health database from August to September found both COVID-19 infections and severe disease were higher among the vaccinated than those who recovered from the illness, also known as people with natural immunity.

For instance, the naturally immune had a 10.5 per 100,000 infection rate four to six months following their recovery, versus a 69.2 per 100,000 rate among the vaccinated.

The number of severe cases was also higher among the vaccinated: 0.9 percent of all cases among that group were severe, compared with 0.5 percent of cases among the recovered.

Researchers found that protection against infection dropped over time among both the recovered and vaccinated, but the drop was more pronounced among the vaccinated.

They also studied two other cohorts: people with natural immunity who later got a vaccine, and people who got a vaccine and later recovered from an infection.

Case rates were low in both those groups. They were the lowest by a small number in the naturally immune who got a jab.

"We found that protection against the Delta variant wanes over time for both vaccinated and previously infected individuals and that an additional dose restores protection," Yair Goldberg, an associate professor at the Israel Institute of Technology who led the pre-print study (pdf), told The Epoch Times in an email.

The study analyzed the effectiveness of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine, the one most used in Israel.

COVID-19 is the disease caused by the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) virus.

Limitations of the study included having longer-term data for the recovered versus the other groups; an undetermined number of vaccinated people not being diagnosed as naturally immune; and possible detection bias because the naturally immune are less likely to get tested than the vaccinated.

Protection Holds Up Over Time
Immunity can be measured through antibodies, which primarily protect against infection, or through T cells and B cells, which primarily protect against severe disease.

"Those immune cells don't go away over time," Dr. Jeffrey Klausner, a professor at the University of Southern California's Keck School of Medicine, told The Epoch Times in an email.

Though the levels of antibodies go down in both the naturally immune and vaccinated as time elapses since recovery or getting a shot, both groups enjoy long-lasting protection against severe disease or death.

People who are immune have a 90 percent lower risk of severe disease, according to recent research from Qatar.

The naturally immune, though, are better protected against both infection and severe disease, according to a large body of research that includes the latest study from Israel.

"If you had COVID before and recovered, all the data that we're looking at will suggest that you have bulletproof natural immunity, which is much more robust and comprehensive than vaccine immunity," Dr. Paul Alexander, an epidemiologist with the Early COVID Care Experts who has compiled 141 studies on natural immunity—including a major study from Israel published in August—told The Epoch Times.

The Question
The question that divides the scientific community is whether people with natural immunity should get vaccinated.

Those who do are described as having "hybrid immunity."

Top U.S. health officials, including Dr. Anthony Fauci, and some scientists have encouraged vaccination among the naturally immune.

They point to studies indicating people with hybrid immunity have the highest level of protection, at least against infection.

"The hybrid immunity of people who have survived their initial infection and then get vaccinated—they have stronger protection than anybody," Dr. David Boulware, an infectious disease physician and scientist with the University of Minnesota Medical School, told The Epoch Times.

The Israeli researchers also suggest a dose for the naturally immune, but not everybody is on board.

"There is little benefit from getting vaccinated after recovery from COVID," Dr. Harvey Risch, an epidemiology professor at the Yale School of Public Health, told The Epoch Times in an email.

Alexander noted that some studies indicate giving recovered patients a vaccine can lead to a higher rate of adverse events and that such events reported to Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System is higher than other vaccines.

Boulware says a way to minimize potential events is for the recovered not to get a vaccine for at least six months after recovery.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_breakingnews/natural-immunity-more-protective-over-time-than-covid-19-vaccination-study_4149953.html?utm_source=News&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2021-12-10-2&mktids=f8b6cc6f7d710d6fa53e722520e41e38&est=TWzJ0R5D5VS8lkYM2J5jcCYqiyt59GjESqyqQpef%2FNQMQFZWqUR%2BA%2BQHAwKnd3up8Q%3D%3D

[King Wenceslas]

Vaccination is looking to be a civilization killer:

(Natural News) Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche, a renowned vaccine expert, virologist and former senior officer of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, urged those who have not taken the Wuhan coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccine to "stay unvaccinated" if they want to protect their innate immune systems.

Vanden Bossche broadcast this message in the form of a video that was released on Nov. 20 to coincide with a large rally in Vienna, Austria opposing the country's latest round of COVID-19 restrictions. (Related: Austria mandates COVID-19 vaccines for ALL residents; those who refuse will pay steep fines.)

"Never, ever allow anything, or anybody, to interfere or suppress your innate immune system," said Vanden Bossche. He said that a person's natural immune system is the first line of defense against any kind of disease, including COVID-19.

Vanden Bossche warned that the "antibodies" produced by the COVID-19 vaccines suppress a person's natural immunity, and they "cannot substitute for it" since these "antibodies," if they actually provide any kind of protection against infection or transmission, do not last very long.

Because of this, Vanden Bossche warned people against trusting the rhetoric that all of society will be protected as long as enough people get vaccinated. The vaccines "do not contribute to herd immunity," he said.

"For God's sake, stay unvaccinated. They should stay unvaccinated," said Vanden Bossche. He advised the unvaccinated to continue taking care of their natural immunities by taking care of their health. "If you do this and you are unvaccinated, you will be spared from severe disease without any vaccine. On the contrary, the vaccine would do the opposite."

Those who are more vulnerable to COVID-19, such as the elderly, those with compromised immune systems or who have comorbidities, are advised to be careful about who they come into close contact with.

"This is not to discriminate against the vaccines, but the unvaccinated should especially avoid contact with vaccinated at this point in time," he said.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-12-09-vaccine-expert-says-never-take-covid-vaccines.html

Wow, this is a bombshell. Former senior official in the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation!!! is saying this type of stuff.

I think I picked up Covid from my vaccinated brother last week. Took a bunch more of D3 and zinc and got over it quite quickly.

Wondering it Omicron is going to wipe out a bunch of the vaccinated over the next several months.

WWIII to reorder the world? Doesn't look like it. All you need is above normal virulent cold virus, vaccines that mess up your immune system, and a mass kill off in the Western world. The next few years is going to be dang interesting with 3, 4, or even 5 jabs. The sky is the limit with these imbeciles and their lust for money.

[King Wenceslas]

Another very interesting tidbit:

Vanden Bossche also warned against giving the experimental and deadly COVID-19 vaccines to children. He called this action "an absolute no-go"

He said that research shows the immune systems of children can easily be suppressed by the "antibodies" provided by the COVID-19 vaccines since "their antibodies are so young and so naive that they can easily be outcompeted by vaccinal antibodies."

Because the vaccines suppress the immune systems of children, it could expose them to even more diseases and "could even lead to autoimmune diseases."

Suppression of immune systems also lead to CANCER.

[Miriam_M]

Suppression of immune systems also lead to CANCER.

Really good point.

[lauermar]

Epoch Times is not a reliable news source, it is no better than CNN or the National Enquirer.

The study findings are interesting but limited. Researchers already know that each variant rises and falls in waves. Those that survive the first wave will develop immunity to that variant. The study doesn't mention that as the old mutant winds down, there is always a new mutation arising in a matter of a few months into something that can re-infect patients who survived the last mutation. Among the home health patients I serve, we are seeing second Covid infections in patients that survived the first 2020 infection. Over time, natural immunity wanes as the titer declines and new variants arise. This is expected. It is not unusual.

All you can do is keep your titer high by getting a booster. If you get a second infection, a higher titer may offer protection against a new mutant with an exposure which may be a bit higher, so you don't end up intubated or dead.

[lauermar]

Quote from: King Wenceslas on December 10, 2021, 11:27:02 PM
[/quote]Suppression of immune systems also lead to CANCER. [/quote]

Incorrect. Immunosuppressants together with surgery and radiotherapy are used in patients whose cancer has metastasized. Chemo *saves* lives, and can add years of survival.

I'm proud of our home health company because is one of a few in the nation that is administering IV Regeneron to recovering Covid patients at home.

[lauermar]

So much for "natural immunity." It never occurs to naturalists that they may *never* achieve natural immunity if they don't survive Covid in the first place. She gambled and lost.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60050996

[ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez]

So much for "natural immunity." It never occurs to naturalists that they may *never* achieve natural immunity if they don't survive Covid in the first place. She gambled and lost.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60050996

Shut up.

[Jayne]

So much for "natural immunity." It never occurs to naturalists that they may *never* achieve natural immunity if they don't survive Covid in the first place. She gambled and lost.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60050996

While I do not rejoice at this sort of death, I recognize that there is a sort of poetic justice to it.

[Severinus]

On Sunday morning, the day she died, Ms Horka said she was feeling better and dressed to go for a walk. But then her back started hurting, so she went to lie down in her bedroom.

"In about 10 minutes it was all over," her son said. "She choked to death".

This doesn't sound like a covid death, quite possibly just a coincidence. Either way, this is essentially an anecdote, which once again goes to prove my contention that when they sync up with the narrative, they are Important Data, but when they don't, they're just worthless anecdotes.

[MaximGun]

Died in 2 days?

Sounds unlikely.

What did she have, Covid Turbo?

[dueSicilie]

Another likely "death with Covid" that the media is trying to use to terrify/shame you.

[Elizabeth.2]

I did know the Geert  man worked for gates.   I watched some round table discussions with he and some other seemingly genuinely credible intellectuals awhile ago on something like rumble...too bad I can't even remember any specifics, but he and his colleagues on the Good List. 

[Elizabeth.2]

Suppression of immune systems also lead to CANCER.

Really good point.

Ah, so very sad, because see how many babies are not breast-fed anymore.  Or for for working mommies, maybe long enough to set up all of the immunity enhancement. 

[Miriam_M]

Epoch Times is not a reliable news source, it is no better than CNN or the National Enquirer.

I happened to cite this one study because it was a written source immediately available, but plenty of physicians from reputable locations like Stanford Hospital, Cleveland, Yale, Cambridge, and many other places have discussed natural immunity orally and have mentioned published studies that I didn't have a chance to write down at the time.

This study is by no means "The National Enquirer."  It's just that you are psychologically invested in artificial "immunity" and so resist contrary information.