Author Topic: About the Resignation....By Roger Mahoney  (Read 6423 times)

Offline Irenaeus G. Saintonge

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Re: About the Resignation....By Roger Mahoney
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2013, 09:05:06 PM »
Funny. I feel a kind a nervous optimism. Perhaps I should be a bit more cautious. :)
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Offline Heinrich

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Re: About the Resignation....By Roger Mahoney
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2013, 09:15:50 PM »
What gives you reason to be optimistic?
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.
 

Offline Irenaeus G. Saintonge

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Re: About the Resignation....By Roger Mahoney
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2013, 12:27:02 AM »
What gives you reason to be optimistic?

I think that several of the most eligible cardinals are, while not 'perfect', more than capable of continuing on the correct trajectory, even ramping up the efforts to bring back Tradition. I am perhaps not quite as... I guess I will say 'radical', a traditionalist as many on this board, so for me, simply staying on Benedict's course would be acceptable for the time being.
That is not to say that I think Benedict's pontificate has been perfect. Clearly, for a traditionalist, it has not, but I truly believe we are going in the right direction. I think someone like Ouellet would stay on precisely the same course. But an outside chance like Burke or Ranjith would be a watershed moment for traditionalism. I mean, look at what Ranjith did in Colombo, forbidding Communion in the hand, mandating altar rails, rejecting syncretic liturgies... If that is not a step in the right direction...

Part of it is personality too. I am usually an optimist.
"This is that disciple who giveth testimony of these things, and hath written these things; and we know that his testimony is true. "
Jn:21:24

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Offline Gottmitunsalex

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Re: About the Resignation....By Roger Mahoney
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2013, 02:08:11 AM »
            I look forward to traveling to Rome to help thank Pope Benedict XVI for his gifted service to the Church, and to participate in the Conclave to elect his successor.

Missing from his Eminence's vocabulary:  "Domine non sum dignus."
He doesn't say it in the vernacular.
"Nothing is more miserable than those people who never failed to attack their own salvation. When there was need to observe the Law, they trampled it under foot. Now that the Law has ceased to bind, they obstinately strive to observe it. What could be more pitiable that those who provoke God not only by transgressing the Law but also by keeping it? But at any rate the Jews say that they, too, adore God. God forbid that I say that. No Jew adores God! Who say so? The Son of God say so. For he said: "If you were to know my Father, you would also know me. But you neither know me nor do you know my Father". Could I produce a witness more trustworthy than the Son of God?"  St. John Chrysostom  Sunday Homily

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Offline Mr. Mysterious

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Re: About the Resignation....By Roger Mahoney
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2013, 06:21:00 PM »
I sincerely hope that Mahony is removed from the College before the Conclave begins. Unfortunately that does not look likely at this point.

I was kinda hoping he was at the Vatican when the lightening struck.   :)

It would have been rather fitting, if that had been the way God chose to communicate something to us.  :tongue:

God still has plenty of lightning. Maybe that was a warning shot.  He might want to knock a bunch out as they process into the Conclave with one bolt.

Or He'll do it with ball lightning.

"Take courage! I have overcome the world." John 16:33
 

Offline Heinrich

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Re: About the Resignation....By Roger Mahoney
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2013, 06:43:25 PM »
What gives you reason to be optimistic?

I think that several of the most eligible cardinals are, while not 'perfect', more than capable of continuing on the correct trajectory, even ramping up the efforts to bring back Tradition. I am perhaps not quite as... I guess I will say 'radical', a traditionalist as many on this board, so for me, simply staying on Benedict's course would be acceptable for the time being.
That is not to say that I think Benedict's pontificate has been perfect. Clearly, for a traditionalist, it has not, but I truly believe we are going in the right direction. I think someone like Ouellet would stay on precisely the same course. But an outside chance like Burke or Ranjith would be a watershed moment for traditionalism. I mean, look at what Ranjith did in Colombo, forbidding Communion in the hand, mandating altar rails, rejecting syncretic liturgies... If that is not a step in the right direction...

Part of it is personality too. I am usually an optimist.

Please detail a list of who these imperfect Cardinals are and how they are going to right the avalanche of wrongs of the past 50 years. And I do not understand what a radical traditionalist is? Please explain that.
No pope has been perfect. But some Popes have done a good job of Poping. What would you consider the correct trajectory that corresponds with a St. Pius X or Blessed Pius IX?
Thank you. 
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.
 

Offline Irenaeus G. Saintonge

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Re: About the Resignation....By Roger Mahoney
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2013, 07:05:47 PM »
What gives you reason to be optimistic?

I think that several of the most eligible cardinals are, while not 'perfect', more than capable of continuing on the correct trajectory, even ramping up the efforts to bring back Tradition. I am perhaps not quite as... I guess I will say 'radical', a traditionalist as many on this board, so for me, simply staying on Benedict's course would be acceptable for the time being.
That is not to say that I think Benedict's pontificate has been perfect. Clearly, for a traditionalist, it has not, but I truly believe we are going in the right direction. I think someone like Ouellet would stay on precisely the same course. But an outside chance like Burke or Ranjith would be a watershed moment for traditionalism. I mean, look at what Ranjith did in Colombo, forbidding Communion in the hand, mandating altar rails, rejecting syncretic liturgies... If that is not a step in the right direction...

Part of it is personality too. I am usually an optimist.

Please detail a list of who these imperfect Cardinals are and how they are going to right the avalanche of wrongs of the past 50 years. And I do not understand what a radical traditionalist is? Please explain that.
No pope has been perfect. But some Popes have done a good job of Poping. What would you consider the correct trajectory that corresponds with a St. Pius X or Blessed Pius IX?
Thank you.

I could not think of a better word at the time than radical, but I did not think it was adequate either. Hence the scare quotes. :P Very briefly, I am in a rather unique (for me) position on this forum in that, by the standards of most people here, I am actually the 'liberal', relatively speaking. Normally I am the token rad trad. That is new for me. :) So all I mean by that is that I more or less adhere to the FSSP party line, with great sympathy towards the SSPX. On the other hand, we have several members here who accept sedevacantism, which I think you and I would both agree makes me look rather tame in comparison.
In terms of staying on the right course, my thoughts are like this. I think Ouellet would be qualitatively identical to Pope Benedict, and I personally would be content with that. I am not as familiar with Scola, but it seems that evidence indicates that he is rather in the same boat. IMO there are more things that Pope Benedict could have done for Tradition, but all in all I think we are taking slow steps in the right direction, in part due to his leadership. I know many people around here disagree with that, which is fine.
I think that Burke and Ranjith would step up the efforts, even significantly. That is why, by how I understand the papabili, I am considering either of them to be ideal. I think they would take Pope Benedict's efforts and expand them, giving us traditionalists something even greater to hold onto. Again, that is only my opinion.
I do not think any of the candidates would be 'perfect' in that they would immediately restore the usus antiquior as normative, suppress the Novus Ordo, and unconditionally regularize the SSPX. But that is fine. I do not want to perfect to be the enemy of the good, in this case.
So in conclusion, I think the cardinals who would do the best job of "Poping" would be, in descending order, Ranjith, Burke, Ouellet, and Scola. I think they would do a good and acceptable job, though perhaps not perfect in the way that I would perceive to be perfect.
I hope that explains my thoughts better. :)
"This is that disciple who giveth testimony of these things, and hath written these things; and we know that his testimony is true. "
Jn:21:24

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Offline Heinrich

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Re: About the Resignation....By Roger Mahoney
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2013, 09:51:34 PM »
Those four may be traditionally-minded, but by how much are they out-numbered? Again, in the visible structure, I am just not too optimistic.

 There is great confusion in the Church and among the faithful who want to do right. If, as Sedevacantists claim, at some point in the space of matter we lost the Bishop of Rome and all jurisdictional elements of the Church ceased to exist, then I have not received proper Sacraments. Therefore I am not Catholic. I am at the Mercy of God and must beg for the intercession of The Mother of God at my death.

Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.
 

Offline Irenaeus G. Saintonge

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Re: About the Resignation....By Roger Mahoney
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2013, 09:57:56 PM »
Those four may be traditionally-minded, but by how much are they out-numbered? Again, in the visible structure, I am just not too optimistic.

 There is great confusion in the Church and among the faithful who want to do right. If, as Sedevacantists claim, at some point in the space of matter we lost the Bishop of Rome and all jurisdictional elements of the Church ceased to exist, then I have not received proper Sacraments. Therefore I am not Catholic. I am at the Mercy of God and must beg for the intercession of The Mother of God at my death.

I do not disagree with you, nor do I begrudge you a different perspective from my own. :)
"This is that disciple who giveth testimony of these things, and hath written these things; and we know that his testimony is true. "
Jn:21:24

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Offline Heinrich

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Re: About the Resignation....By Roger Mahoney
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2013, 11:14:52 PM »
Those four may be traditionally-minded, but by how much are they out-numbered? Again, in the visible structure, I am just not too optimistic.

 There is great confusion in the Church and among the faithful who want to do right. If, as Sedevacantists claim, at some point in the space of matter we lost the Bishop of Rome and all jurisdictional elements of the Church ceased to exist, then I have not received proper Sacraments. Therefore I am not Catholic. I am at the Mercy of God and must beg for the intercession of The Mother of God at my death.

I do not disagree with you, nor do I begrudge you a different perspective from my own. :)

Not begruding here either.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.