Author Topic: George Wiegel On the New Direction of the Church  (Read 1790 times)

Offline dust

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George Wiegel On the New Direction of the Church
« on: February 07, 2013, 04:24:10 PM »
read this today:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/guest-voices/post/evangelical-catholics-on-offense/2013/02/06/87c914be-7073-11e2-8b8d-e0b59a1b8e2a_blog.html

Hmmm....really?

"Authentic, evangelical Catholic reform will touch and change every facet of Catholic life: from the episcopate and the papacy to the priesthood and the consecrated life; from the renewal of the lay vocation to a redefinition of the church’s role in public life. But because these reforms will be conducted according to the criteria of truth and mission, they will not deconstruct the Catholic Church, nor will they return it to some imaginary golden age of the past."
"The Truth is still the Truth, even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it." ++ Venerable Archbishop Fulton Sheen
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Offline SouthpawLink

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Re: George Wiegel On the New Direction of the Church
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2013, 07:04:14 PM »
Quote
The curtain is coming down on the institutionally-focused Catholicism of the Counter-Reformation...

And this is a cause for celebration?  All of the abuses we've seen in the last 50 years would've been nearly non-existent in an authoritarian, monarchical Church.  Unfortunately, we don't have that anymore, as Vatican I's become a dead letter, what with all of the focus on collegiality.

Quote
More than a century of Catholic reform is now coming to fruition . . .  It’s not sectarian Catholicism, though, nor is it remnant Catholicism . . .  Evangelical Catholicism is emerging from a process of deep Catholic reform that began in the late 19th century, and its flowering will require further reforms in the church

Modernism has also been around for the last century, and has produced poor biblical scholarship, a reinterpretation of doctrine, including a new (and false) understanding of the Church's constitution.  Non-sectarian Cathicism has led to mass indifferentism and communicatio in sacris.  Last, but not least, the reforms over the last fifty years could have hardly been worse...
"Is there no exception to the rule forbidding the administration of the Sacraments to baptized non-Catholics who are in good faith? In the case of those who are in good health, the prohibition is absolute; no dispute on this point is possible in view of the repeated explicit declarations of the Holy Office" (Rev. S. Woywod, A Practical Commentary on the Code of Canon Law, vol. I, sec. 625, p. 322ff.).

Contrast the above with the 1983 CIC, Can. 844 §3 & 4: "Catholic ministers administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick licitly to members of Eastern Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church. . . .  If the danger of death is present or if, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops, some other grave necessity urges it, Catholic ministers administer these same sacraments licitly also to other Christians not having full communion with the Catholic Church." — The phrase "properly disposed" does not save the canon from error, because the context shows that no conversion is expected on the part of non-Catholics ("manifest Catholic faith in respect to these sacraments" is the sole requirement).
 

Offline FaithByProxy

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Re: George Wiegel On the New Direction of the Church
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2013, 07:24:32 PM »
How can a Catholic actually say things like this without becoming completely horrified by the words coming out of their mouth?
Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.
 

Offline dust

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Re: George Wiegel On the New Direction of the Church
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2013, 08:07:21 PM »
How can a Catholic actually say things like this without becoming completely horrified by the words coming out of their mouth?

Because the protestantization is now in full swing. They have removed the cloak of deniability and are forging ahead with the true ideaology behind Vatican II. And H.H. Pope Benedict seems to be in full agreement with this.

http://www.traditioninaction.org/ProgressivistDoc/A_159_Muller-Prot.html

http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/m007rpRatzingerTrueColors_May05.shtml

http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/m008rpRatzingerBenedicts_May25.shtml

"The Truth is still the Truth, even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it." ++ Venerable Archbishop Fulton Sheen
"Memento, homo, quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris"
 

Offline Gerard

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Re: George Wiegel On the New Direction of the Church
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2013, 09:48:01 PM »
read this today:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/guest-voices/post/evangelical-catholics-on-offense/2013/02/06/87c914be-7073-11e2-8b8d-e0b59a1b8e2a_blog.html

Hmmm....really?

"Authentic, evangelical Catholic reform will touch and change every facet of Catholic life: from the episcopate and the papacy to the priesthood and the consecrated life; from the renewal of the lay vocation to a redefinition of the church’s role in public life. But because these reforms will be conducted according to the criteria of truth and mission, they will not deconstruct the Catholic Church, nor will they return it to some imaginary golden age of the past."

Just call it "Weigel's imaginary golden age."
 

Offline Gerard

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Re: George Wiegel On the New Direction of the Church
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2013, 09:55:33 PM »
Maybe he should petition the Pope to actually establish a new "rite" within the Catholic Church called "the Evangelical Catholic Church" with all of the splendor and fruits of the Council and the Latin rite of the Roman Catholic Church can be left for those who are traditionalists in both practice and belief.  He can show the ancients rites of the Church how its done.

I don't think Weigel is calling for a deconstruction of the Eastern rites of the Church, I think he's myopically focusing on the Novus Ordo Church. 

Of course, everyone knows that if the Church had officially offered a "new rite" and offered people the chance to switch to the "new rite" that would be a dead experiment by now since the old rite with all of its problems was way better than the garbage that followed. 

 

Offline FaithByProxy

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Re: George Wiegel On the New Direction of the Church
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2013, 12:02:39 PM »
How can a Catholic actually say things like this without becoming completely horrified by the words coming out of their mouth?

Because the protestantization is now in full swing. They have removed the cloak of deniability and are forging ahead with the true ideaology behind Vatican II. And H.H. Pope Benedict seems to be in full agreement with this.

http://www.traditioninaction.org/ProgressivistDoc/A_159_Muller-Prot.html

http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/m007rpRatzingerTrueColors_May05.shtml

http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/m008rpRatzingerBenedicts_May25.shtml

Oh my, I hadn't seen those articles before.  :(
Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.
 

Offline Gottmitunsalex

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Re: George Wiegel On the New Direction of the Church
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2013, 08:46:35 PM »
How can a Catholic actually say things like this without becoming completely horrified by the words coming out of their mouth?

Because the protestantization is now in full swing. They have removed the cloak of deniability and are forging ahead with the true ideaology behind Vatican II. And H.H. Pope Benedict seems to be in full agreement with this.

http://www.traditioninaction.org/ProgressivistDoc/A_159_Muller-Prot.html

http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/m007rpRatzingerTrueColors_May05.shtml

http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/m008rpRatzingerBenedicts_May25.shtml

Oh my, I hadn't seen those articles before.  :(
This makes me sick.
"Nothing is more miserable than those people who never failed to attack their own salvation. When there was need to observe the Law, they trampled it under foot. Now that the Law has ceased to bind, they obstinately strive to observe it. What could be more pitiable that those who provoke God not only by transgressing the Law but also by keeping it? But at any rate the Jews say that they, too, adore God. God forbid that I say that. No Jew adores God! Who say so? The Son of God say so. For he said: "If you were to know my Father, you would also know me. But you neither know me nor do you know my Father". Could I produce a witness more trustworthy than the Son of God?"  St. John Chrysostom  Sunday Homily

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Offline CamelliaSinensis

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Re: George Wiegel On the New Direction of the Church
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2013, 09:02:40 PM »
What is this mythical time period that "evangelical Catholics" want to take us back to?  In the case of the Counter Reformation, what is with the utter loathing of this period? From baroque, to fiddlebacks, to triumphalism. There is some utter disdain for the Counter Reformation. Do we have to all don tunics to mass and hold the consecration over a limestone rock?
 

Offline dust

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Re: George Wiegel On the New Direction of the Church
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2013, 09:32:41 PM »
What is this mythical time period that "evangelical Catholics" want to take us back to?  In the case of the Counter Reformation, what is with the utter loathing of this period? From baroque, to fiddlebacks, to triumphalism. There is some utter disdain for the Counter Reformation. Do we have to all don tunics to mass and hold the consecration over a limestone rock?

It is the make believe return to a "small group oriented" church. One free of hierarchy and Dogma and anything that smacks of institutional Church. It is a ghost that is used to fool the masses into thinking this is how it was supposed to be all along before all those pesky Saints and theologians throughhout our Church history Gave us the rich Tradition and History that is the Catholic Church. As H.H. Pope Benedict puts it:

"“Let me go one step further. From today’s crisis, a Church will emerge tomorrow that will have lost a great deal. She will be small and, to a large extent, will have to start from the beginning. She will no longer be able to fill many of the buildings created in her period of great splendor. Because of the smaller number of her followers, she will lose many of her privileges in society. Contrary to what has happened until now, she will present herself much more as a community of volunteers ....

"As a small community, she will demand much more from the initiative of each of her members and she will certainly also acknowledge new forms of ministry and will raise up to the priesthood proven Christians who have other jobs. In many smaller communities, respectively in social groups with some affinity, the normal care of souls will take place in this way ....

"There will be an interiorized Church, which neither takes advantage of its political mandate nor flirts with the left or the right. This will be achieved with effort because the process of crystallization and clarification will demand great exertion. It will make her poor and a Church of the little people .... All this will require time. The process will be slow and painful ....

“From this interiorized and simplified Church, a great force will pour out. The men of an [artificially] planned world will feel unspeakably isolated. When God will seem to have totally disappeared for them, they will experience a complete and horrible poverty. And then they will discover the small community of those who believe as something entirely new ....

"Her [the Church’s] real crisis has hardly started. We still have to go through some great storms .... Certainly she will never again be the dominant force in society to the degree that she was until recently.”" Fr. J. Ratzinger 1969.

It is a strange new ideology wrapped up in a sham of an idea that less is more. That somehow all that the Church has achieved, All Her Saints and great theologians were somehow wrong all along and now, just in the last 100 or so years, have they gotten it right. Sort of the same arguement that many protestant leaders use to denounce the Catholic Church as a whole. I find it all very unsettling and scary. Yet it continues unabated. Save for a small few who still retain and hold on to Tradition and the true teachings of the Church. The believers of this false theology are doing there utmost to see this thing to it's fruition. And are doing a damn good job of it too.
"The Truth is still the Truth, even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it." ++ Venerable Archbishop Fulton Sheen
"Memento, homo, quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris"
 

Offline Gerard

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Re: George Wiegel On the New Direction of the Church
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2013, 12:50:12 AM »
What is this mythical time period that "evangelical Catholics" want to take us back to?  In the case of the Counter Reformation, what is with the utter loathing of this period? From baroque, to fiddlebacks, to triumphalism. There is some utter disdain for the Counter Reformation. Do we have to all don tunics to mass and hold the consecration over a limestone rock?

It is the make believe return to a "small group oriented" church. One free of hierarchy and Dogma and anything that smacks of institutional Church. It is a ghost that is used to fool the masses into thinking this is how it was supposed to be all along before all those pesky Saints and theologians throughhout our Church history Gave us the rich Tradition and History that is the Catholic Church. As H.H. Pope Benedict puts it:

"“Let me go one step further. From today’s crisis, a Church will emerge tomorrow that will have lost a great deal. She will be small and, to a large extent, will have to start from the beginning. She will no longer be able to fill many of the buildings created in her period of great splendor. Because of the smaller number of her followers, she will lose many of her privileges in society. Contrary to what has happened until now, she will present herself much more as a community of volunteers ....

"As a small community, she will demand much more from the initiative of each of her members and she will certainly also acknowledge new forms of ministry and will raise up to the priesthood proven Christians who have other jobs. In many smaller communities, respectively in social groups with some affinity, the normal care of souls will take place in this way ....

"There will be an interiorized Church, which neither takes advantage of its political mandate nor flirts with the left or the right. This will be achieved with effort because the process of crystallization and clarification will demand great exertion. It will make her poor and a Church of the little people .... All this will require time. The process will be slow and painful ....

“From this interiorized and simplified Church, a great force will pour out. The men of an [artificially] planned world will feel unspeakably isolated. When God will seem to have totally disappeared for them, they will experience a complete and horrible poverty. And then they will discover the small community of those who believe as something entirely new ....

"Her [the Church’s] real crisis has hardly started. We still have to go through some great storms .... Certainly she will never again be the dominant force in society to the degree that she was until recently.”" Fr. J. Ratzinger 1969.

It is a strange new ideology wrapped up in a sham of an idea that less is more. That somehow all that the Church has achieved, All Her Saints and great theologians were somehow wrong all along and now, just in the last 100 or so years, have they gotten it right. Sort of the same arguement that many protestant leaders use to denounce the Catholic Church as a whole. I find it all very unsettling and scary. Yet it continues unabated. Save for a small few who still retain and hold on to Tradition and the true teachings of the Church. The believers of this false theology are doing there utmost to see this thing to it's fruition. And are doing a damn good job of it too.

As Fr. Malachi Martin stated, Our Lord Jesus Christ will take care of it.  He'll let them have their nonsense for a while and he'll meet us down at the end of the road and raise up the Church in glory. 

It's Jesus Christ that is really in charge and I think the blueprints for what we should be doing are to take those loathsome plans of these Judas priests and direct our energies to the exact opposite. 

Tradition will stubbornly refuse to go away despite the plans of the Popes.  The Popes of Vatican II will eventually go away though. 
 

Offline dust

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Re: George Wiegel On the New Direction of the Church
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2013, 04:24:59 PM »
And if Mr. Weigel was not satisfied with his first assesment, now he gives us this:

http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2013/02/a-new-take-on-modern-catholic-history

"But its time has now passed. As the New Testament Church gave way to the Church of the Fathers, and that Church gave way to medieval Catholicism, which in turn gave way to Counter-Reformation Catholicism, so the Church shaped by Trent is now giving way to the Church of the third millennium—Evangelical Catholicism. And just in time."

 They are stoking the flames for the Conclave friends. Between now and the begining of the Conclave expect the shouts of the modernists to reach a volume never before seen.
"The Truth is still the Truth, even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it." ++ Venerable Archbishop Fulton Sheen
"Memento, homo, quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris"