Is it very hard, or very easy to commit a mortal sin?

[james03]

If by efficacious grace, you mean that the Grace RESULTS in repentance and salvation, then all grace is not efficacious.

If, like me, you mean that all Grace accomplishes its purpose, then all Grace is efficacious.

My point, there is not a separate "enabling" Grace needed, which "enabling" Grace some have titled "Efficacious Grace".  That is the dung pile covered with snow heresy.  It is even more radical than Calvin, who at least believed in Regeneration.  It is Luther.

[Michael Wilson]

But by it's bare-bones definition all actual graces are efficacious in that they accomplish their task.  And nothing I wrote contradicts your cite.

I base my knowledge on Ott's fundamentals book mostly and am in process of studding grace topic in depth. So no personal opinion  yet. There are many distinctions about grace which appeared in the Magisterium shortly after Trent and I could not find any support for a "all actual graces are efficacious". To the contrary - there is entire chapter about a efficacious grace. All in 50 pages of dense and packed text with hard references ...

Its a very interesting topic. I find it fascinating.

[andy]

If by efficacious grace, you mean that the Grace RESULTS in repentance and salvation, then all grace is not efficacious.

If, like me, you mean that all Grace accomplishes its purpose, then all Grace is efficacious.

My point, there is not a separate "enabling" Grace needed, which "enabling" Grace some have titled "Efficacious Grace".  That is the dung pile covered with snow heresy.  It is even more radical than Calvin, who at least believed in Regeneration.  It is Luther.

I am closer to this statement: An ability to receive graces is a grace as well.

BTW, from Ott "There is a grace which is truly sufficient and yet remains inefficacious" De Fide.

[andy]

Its a very interesting topic. I find it fascinating.

Me too. But not planning to lose the sleep over it. Especially, that in 2000 years of Church history, best Popes and Saints have not reached a satisfying conclusion yet.

[Michael Wilson]

St. Francis de Sales did lose sleep over it, and was even close to despair. He finally was delivered when he knelt before a statue of our Blessed Mother and recited the "Memorare"; then peace returned to his soul; and he decided to dedicate his life to God by becoming a priest.
Some people are really bothered by this topic and it is not advised to bring it up in their presence, as they have a tendency to scruples and despondency.

[james03]

BTW, from Ott "There is a grace which is truly sufficient and yet remains inefficacious" De Fide.

That was already discussed previously:

Your cite weasels out on this key point:

We assert in the thesis that graces are given, which are truly sufficient
to act in a salvific way, but which remain purely sufficient because of the
resistance of the human will.

And what causes them not to remain purely sufficient?  Silence.

No one disputes this.  Man freely chooses to reject Grace.

At issue, when man freely cooperates with Grace.  There is no "enabling Grace" needed.

[Miriam_M]

Yes, we must always act on Grace for it to materialize.(We need to recognize it, seize the moment, surrender to it, etc.)

It's just that, according to a trad priest who was my director, grace is always available to us for the asking.  Thus, it is never true that "I can't stop sinning [in this or that way]."  If we think that way, we're relying on nature, which will not get us far, since our nature is fallen.

[andy]

Yes, we must always act on Grace for it to materialize.(We need to recognize it, seize the moment, surrender to it, etc.)

And this act is also a result of a grace I would say. We cannot remain in a state of grace without grace itself.

[andy]

No one disputes this.  Man freely chooses to reject Grace ... At issue, when man freely cooperates with Grace.  There is no "enabling Grace" needed.

So you seem to make a distinction here but somehow refuse to attach a term to it apparently.

[andy]

St. Francis de Sales did lose sleep over it, and was even close to despair. He finally was delivered when he knelt before a statue of our Blessed Mother and recited the "Memorare"; then peace returned to his soul; and he decided to dedicate his life to God by becoming a priest.
Some people are really bothered by this topic and it is not advised to bring it up in their presence, as they have a tendency to scruples and despondency.

They are bothered because it is a highly personal topic. Perhaps, spiritually most intimate one.

I am starting loosing a sleep over it. Good sign :-).

[james03]

And this act is also a result of a grace I would say.

So Sanctifying Grace is just a legal declaration of justice?  Man is still just a dung pile?  That's Luther.

Sanctifying Grace regenerates man.  He freely chooses, based on his Free Will, to cooperate with Grace.

We cannot remain in a state of grace without grace itself.

True.  And we MERIT grace by our free will chooses to cooperate with previous graces.

But man, judging about his course of action by the power of reason, can also judge about his own decision inasmuch as he knows the meaning of an end and of a means to an end, and the relationship of the one with reference to the other. Thus he is his own cause not only in moving but also in judging. He is therefore endowed with free choice—that is to say, with a free judgment about acting or not acting.

[andy]

I was more referring - perhaps very poorly - to "God gives all the just sufficient grace (gratia proxime vel remote sufficiens) for the observation of the Divine Commandments." which is de fide as well as

"120. God, by His Eternal Resolve of Will, has predetermined certain men to eternal blessedness."

and

"121. God, by an Eternal Resolve of His Will, predestines certain men, on account of their foreseen
sins, to eternal rejection"

So there is notion of being absolutely dependent on God's Will: J15:5 "I am the vine: you the branches: he that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing. "

PS I use http://holyjoe.org/dogmas.pdf which is a compilation of Ott's fundamentals

[james03]

Neither cite addresses free will or "efficacious" grace.

Further, I take issue with this:

God, by an Eternal Resolve of His Will, predestines certain men, on account of their foreseen
sins, to eternal rejection

Where is this sourced (I know Ott, but what is his cite)?  God can't "foresee", because that puts God in time.  We also know from experience grave sinners have converted on their death beds.  Dutch Schultz was a horrible sinner, but converted in the end.  Same with Oscar Wilde, a notorious faggot.

[andy]

Ott uses this "post et proper praevisa demerita" tidbit and quotes St. Augustin as well. I could scan a few pages if you want.

[james03]

I'd like to see a cite.  I accept that it is a theological opinion among some.  But it is not de fide.