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The Parish Hall => The Coffee Pot => Topic started by: Fleur-de-Lys on January 16, 2020, 10:35:01 AM

Title: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Fleur-de-Lys on January 16, 2020, 10:35:01 AM
Bearded men are more attractive to women, study says, unless they're squeamish about hair-borne bugs

By Sandee LaMotte, CNN
Updated 12:08 PM ET, Wed January 15, 2020

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/14/health/beard-bugs-female-disgust-wellness/index.html

When it comes to love, as the song says, birds, bees, even educated fleas do it.

But that old, catchy Cole Porter tune certainly didn't consider the impact of fleas -- educated or not -- and other creepy hair crawlers on a woman's ability to love a man with a beard.

According to a new study, if a woman runs screaming from hair-dwelling creatures such as lice, ticks, fleas and the like, she's likely to find men with beards much less attractive.

It's on an unconscious level, of course. But from the viewpoint of her inner animal brain, who wants to pucker up to a mouth fringed by a thicket of hair that might contain tiny, squirmy, maggot-like creatures?

Highly masculine features

Nature has programmed us on a deep, visceral level to be attracted to mates who show the most masculine and feminine qualities for reproduction.

For a man, that has to do with anything testosterone related -- taller, with bigger muscles and more facial hair.

A 2013 study explored the amount of hair considered by females to be the most attractive. Women ranked faces with heavy stubble most attractive; light stubble, heavy beards and clean-shaven faces were judged less attractive.

In this new study, published Tuesday in the Royal Society Open Science journal, very masculine faces and those with beards were rated more attractive than feminine-looking male faces or clean-shaven faces. This held true regardless if the woman was looking for a short-term or long-term relationships.

In fact, men with masculine features such as a wide jaw and strong brow who had beards were the most attractive for both types of relationships.

But when our innate disgust toward parasitic creatures was factored into the equation, things changed. The study found women who expressed higher levels of disgust toward parasites and other pathogens were more likely to judge a man's beard as unattractive.

In evolutionary theory, this could make sense. It's thought humans evolved to have less hair on our bodies partly because it lessened the risk of disease-carrying parasites to proliferate.

Today, surveys show hairless chests are preferred among women from the USA, China, New Zealand, Finland, Brazil, Slovakia, Czechoslovakia and Turkey (but not among women from the UK and Cameroon).

Still, research in the area is confusing: Studies have shown that if a woman grew up with a bearded father they are more likely to find beards attractive; women who are in current relationships with men with facial hair also tend to like it more.

While science sorts it out, guys, you might as well play it safe. If you're considering growing a beard and your partner finds ticks, fleas, lice and other hair-dwelling creatures nauseating, your stubble could get you into trouble.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Gardener on January 16, 2020, 11:05:14 AM
I used to have a massive beard. I’d have come in the top 5 finishers for the Taliban’s yearly beard competition. I shaved it when I decided to pursue my wife. Then I grew facial hair again after we were married, though not huge. She likes the beard. But she doesn’t like when guys don’t grow good beards. Wispy facial hair need not apply.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: MundaCorMeum on January 16, 2020, 12:46:18 PM
My husband has a beard, and I like it.  It's handsome.  But, not all beards are created equal.  I agree with Mrs. Gardener on that.  It has to be neat and well kept, regardless of length.   
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Vetus Ordo on January 16, 2020, 01:41:49 PM
Women ranked faces with heavy stubble most attractive

So, they don't like real beards then.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Fleur-de-Lys on January 16, 2020, 03:32:04 PM
Women ranked faces with heavy stubble most attractive

So, they don't like real beards then.

Don't worry, gentlemen. Real women appreciate real beards.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Vetus Ordo on January 17, 2020, 12:55:15 PM
Quote
Nature has programmed us on a deep, visceral level to be attracted to mates who show the most masculine and feminine qualities for reproduction. For a man, that has to do with anything testosterone related -- taller, with bigger muscles and more facial hair. (...) In fact, men with masculine features such as a wide jaw and strong brow who had beards were the most attractive for both types of relationships.

Despite all social constructs, in the end it all comes down to genetics.

The fittest reproduce, the weakest die off.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Fleur-de-Lys on January 17, 2020, 01:02:28 PM
Quote
Nature has programmed us on a deep, visceral level to be attracted to mates who show the most masculine and feminine qualities for reproduction. For a man, that has to do with anything testosterone related -- taller, with bigger muscles and more facial hair. (...) In fact, men with masculine features such as a wide jaw and strong brow who had beards were the most attractive for both types of relationships.

Despite all social constructs, in the end it all comes down to genetics.

The fittest reproduce, the weakest die off.

If only that were true...
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Sempronius on January 17, 2020, 01:06:22 PM
On a general level thats correct what Vetus ordo quoted. But when it comes to the most ”beautiful” men then its the ones with feminine traits.

Achilles (you all know, the ancient greek hero) could disguise himself as a beautiful women if he wanted to.

All the heroes from 18th century french novels are ”modest as women and fierce as lions”.

Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Fleur-de-Lys on January 17, 2020, 01:21:18 PM
On a general level thats correct what Vetus ordo quoted. But when it comes to the most ”beautiful” men then its the ones with feminine traits.

But beautiful is not necessarily the same as sexually attractive.

Quote
Achilles (you all know, the ancient greek hero) could disguise himself as a beautiful women if he wanted to.

I don't recall that detail from The Iliad. Are you thinking of another source?

Quote
All the heroes from 18th century french novels are ”modest as women and fierce as lions”.

All? Can you cite some examples? I can only think of that description applying perhaps to the hero of Voltaire's L'ingénu.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: abc123 on January 17, 2020, 01:22:45 PM
Unfortunately some of us in our 40s are still waiting for facial hair.

Perhaps given my bass voice and extremely thick head of hair none of the 'man genes' made it to my facial follicles.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Vetus Ordo on January 17, 2020, 01:25:20 PM
Unfortunately some of us in our 40s are still waiting for facial hair.

Perhaps given my bass voice and extremely thick head of hair none of the 'man genes' made it to my facial follicles.

Of all the external masculine traits that attract women, the beard is the only one that is optional.

So you should be alright.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: abc123 on January 17, 2020, 01:33:37 PM
Unfortunately some of us in our 40s are still waiting for facial hair.

Perhaps given my bass voice and extremely thick head of hair none of the 'man genes' made it to my facial follicles.

Of all the external masculine traits that attract women, the beard is the only one that is optional.

So you should be alright.

Indeed. My wife has never seemed to mind.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Sempronius on January 17, 2020, 01:52:19 PM
On a general level thats correct what Vetus ordo quoted. But when it comes to the most ”beautiful” men then its the ones with feminine traits.

But beautiful is not necessarily the same as sexually attractive.

Quote
Achilles (you all know, the ancient greek hero) could disguise himself as a beautiful women if he wanted to.

I don't recall that detail from The Iliad. Are you thinking of another source?

Quote
All the heroes from 18th century french novels are ”modest as women and fierce as lions”.

All? Can you cite some examples? I can only think of that description applying perhaps to the hero of Voltaire's L'ingénu.

Achilles: I think it comes from Madame Dacier’s commentary on the Illiad, or Alexander Pope’s.

The french: We have Lucien Chardon in Illusions perdues, Henri de Marsay in La Fille aux yeux d'or, and Lovelace in Clarissa (not french though but still in the same genre), The history of Tom Jones by Henry Fielding, many of Walter Scotts main characters are ”beautiful and modest”. There is also Stendahls character in The red and the black.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Fleur-de-Lys on January 17, 2020, 02:14:51 PM
Achilles: I think it comes from Madame Dacier’s commentary on the Illiad, or Alexander Pope’s.

The french: We have Lucien Chardon in Illusions perdues, Henri de Marsay in La Fille aux yeux d'or, and Lovelace in Clarissa (not french though but still in the same genre), The history of Tom Jones by Henry Fielding, many of Walter Scotts main characters are ”beautiful and modest”. There is also Stendahls character in The red and the black.

Ah, yes. Please allow me to nitpick for a moment, Sempronius. Most of these are nineteenth-century novels, and half of them are English.  :)

But I will agree that such a type exists among Romantic heroes.

So is it your contention that women in general find effeminate men to be the most attractive?
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Sempronius on January 17, 2020, 02:30:07 PM
I dont want to dogmatically affirm this, I say it more with tongue in cheek.

A small part from La fille aux yeux d’or:

”Well, then, since we are by ourselves, and can say what we like, explain to me why a man as superior as yourself—for you are superior—should affect to exaggerate a foppery which cannot be natural. Why spend two hours and a half in adorning yourself, when it is sufficient to spend a quarter of an hour in your bath, to do your hair in two minutes, and to dress! There, tell me your system.”
“I must be very fond of you, my good dunce, to confide such high thoughts to you,” said the young man, who was at that moment having his feet rubbed with a soft brush lathered with English soap.
“Have I not the most devoted attachment to you,” replied Paul de Manerville, “and do I not like you because I know your superiority?...”
“You must have noticed, if you are in the least capable of observing any moral fact, that women love fops,” went on De Marsay, without replying in any way to Paul’s declaration except by a look. “Do you know why women love fops? My friend, fops are the only men who take care of themselves. Now, to take excessive care of oneself, does it not imply that one takes care in oneself of what belongs to another? The man who does not belong to himself is precisely the man on whom women are keen. Love is essentially a thief. I say nothing about that excess of niceness to which they are so devoted. Do you know of any woman who has had a passion for a sloven, even if he were a remarkable man? If such a fact has occurred, we must put it to the account of those morbid affections of the breeding woman, mad fancies which float through the minds of everybody. On the other hand, I have seen most remarkable people left in the lurch because of their carelessness. A fop, who is concerned about his person, is concerned with folly, with petty things. And what is a woman? A petty thing, a bundle of follies. With two words said to the winds, can you not make her busy for four hours? She is sure that the fop will be occupied with her, seeing that he has no mind for great things. She will never be neglected for glory, ambition, politics, art—those prostitutes who for her are rivals. Then fops have the courage to cover themselves with ridicule in order to please a woman, and her heart is full of gratitude towards the man who is ridiculous for love. In fine, a fop can be no fop unless he is right in being one. It is women who bestow that rank. The fop is love’s colonel; he has his victories, his regiment of women at his command. My dear fellow, in Paris everything is known, and a man cannot be a fop there gratis. You, who have only one woman, and who, perhaps, are right to have but one, try to act the fop!... You will not even become ridiculous, you will be dead. You will become a foregone conclusion, one of those men condemned inevitably to do one and the same thing. You will come to signify folly as inseparably as M. de La Fayette signifies America; M. de Talleyrand, diplomacy; Desaugiers, song; M. de Segur, romance. If they once forsake their own line people no longer attach any value to what they do. So, foppery, my friend Paul, is the sign of an incontestable power over the female folk. A man who is loved by many women passes for having superior qualities, and then, poor fellow, it is a question who shall have him! But do you think it is nothing to have the right of going into a drawing-room, of looking down at people from over your cravat, or through your eye-glass, and of despising the most superior of men should he wear an old-fashioned waistcoat?... Laurent, you are hurting me! After breakfast, Paul, we will go to the Tuileries and see the adorable girl with the golden eyes.”
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: TheReturnofLive on January 17, 2020, 03:07:38 PM
Quote
Nature has programmed us on a deep, visceral level to be attracted to mates who show the most masculine and feminine qualities for reproduction. For a man, that has to do with anything testosterone related -- taller, with bigger muscles and more facial hair. (...) In fact, men with masculine features such as a wide jaw and strong brow who had beards were the most attractive for both types of relationships.

Despite all social constructs, in the end it all comes down to genetics.

The fittest reproduce, the weakest die off.

Lol Vetus, you liked to browse r/Braincels?
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Vetus Ordo on January 17, 2020, 03:16:11 PM
Quote
Nature has programmed us on a deep, visceral level to be attracted to mates who show the most masculine and feminine qualities for reproduction. For a man, that has to do with anything testosterone related -- taller, with bigger muscles and more facial hair. (...) In fact, men with masculine features such as a wide jaw and strong brow who had beards were the most attractive for both types of relationships.

Despite all social constructs, in the end it all comes down to genetics.

The fittest reproduce, the weakest die off.

Lol Vetus, you liked to browse r/Braincels?

I have no idea what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: dellery on January 17, 2020, 03:24:45 PM
Speaking from past experience, beards are a form of vanity.
Even if was permitted to grow a beard now, I would not have one, and would instead follow the example of our Roman brethren.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Lynne on January 17, 2020, 04:58:46 PM
Quote
Nature has programmed us on a deep, visceral level to be attracted to mates who show the most masculine and feminine qualities for reproduction. For a man, that has to do with anything testosterone related -- taller, with bigger muscles and more facial hair. (...) In fact, men with masculine features such as a wide jaw and strong brow who had beards were the most attractive for both types of relationships.

Despite all social constructs, in the end it all comes down to genetics.

The fittest reproduce, the weakest die off.

Lol Vetus, you liked to browse r/Braincels?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

It's a sub-forum on Reddit, I'm guessing...  :)
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: dellery on January 17, 2020, 05:34:54 PM

It's a sub-forum on Reddit, I'm guessing...  :)

LOL! Even I guessed that.

I'm going to check the place out now knowing Vetus Ordo browses there.
Not that we couldn't find the platitudes he spews peppered over the web already though.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Vetus Ordo on January 17, 2020, 06:47:23 PM
I'm going to check the place out now knowing Vetus Ordo browses there. Not that we couldn't find the platitudes he spews peppered over the web already though.

It wouldn't be necessary to check anything if you had basic notions of Biology and Anthropology. Res ipsa loquitur. Sooner or later, you always pay the price when you don't pay attention to science classes in school.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: TheReturnofLive on January 17, 2020, 08:31:00 PM
I'm going to check the place out now knowing Vetus Ordo browses there. Not that we couldn't find the platitudes he spews peppered over the web already though.

It wouldn't be necessary to check anything if you had basic notions of Biology and Anthropology. Res ipsa loquitur. Sooner or later, you always pay the price when you don't pay attention to science classes in school.

If only we paid attention to those classes and could be a scientist like Vetus is. Then maybe we would recognize the truth of Social Darwinism, which, as we all know, every Biologist subscribes to.

Do you really think that men and women today are becoming more intelligent, stronger, more beautiful, more motivated, and wealthier per capita? In my own perception, the complete opposite is true. Human society as we know it is imploding, which will result in either totalitarianism or anarchy, or a frightful combination of both.

The horrible and juvenile, but ironically relevant movie "Idiocracy" has a theory that seems to be more correct. (Warning: Profanity)

Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Gardener on January 17, 2020, 09:22:11 PM
Speaking from past experience, beards are a form of vanity.
Even if was permitted to grow a beard now, I would not have one, and would instead follow the example of our Roman brethren.

Wear capris and beat your wife because she hates your mistress?
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: TheReturnofLive on January 17, 2020, 09:33:57 PM
Speaking from past experience, beards are a form of vanity.
Even if was permitted to grow a beard now, I would not have one, and would instead follow the example of our Roman brethren.

"But for one who is a man to comb himself and shave himself with a razor, for the sake of fine effect, to arrange his hair at the looking-glass, to shave his cheeks, pluck hairs out of them, and smooth them, how womanly!…For God wished women to be smooth, and rejoice in their locks alone growing spontaneously, as a horse in his mane; but has adorned man, like the lions, with a beard…" - Saint Clement of Alexandria

Yeah, I know he's not right - after all, it's pitiful that God has created Asian genetics if this quote were true - but I don't think that beards are a form of vanity. Often times, they are a great show of masculinity, and it's for that reason why its normative for Byzantine-Rite priests to have a beard, and even why traditionalist Orthodox people think that the trimming of the beard is a sign of modernism and apostasy.

http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/clergy_hair.aspx
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: dellery on January 17, 2020, 10:09:46 PM
TROL, a bearded man going about like a lion with a mane seems extremely vein.

A women is glorified by her hair, not a man.

Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: The Curt Jester on January 17, 2020, 10:16:31 PM
Actually, a beard is a sign that you're boycotting Gillette.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: TheReturnofLive on January 17, 2020, 10:44:11 PM
TROL, a bearded man going about like a lion with a mane seems extremely vein.

Take it up with Saint Clement of Alexandria, and the Saints who have such beards (see iconography of Clement of Alexandria, Cyril of Alexandria, Saint Patrick, Saint Nicholas, Saint Maximus the Confessor, Basil the Great, Gregory of Nyssa, Gregory the Nazianzen, Saint Cyril of Jerusalem, Saint Ambrose, Saint Benedict, Saint Cyril and Methodius, Saint Gregory the Illuminator, Pope Pius V, Maximilian Kolbe, Andrew Bobola, Charbel, and more if you really want)

I can agree that Saint Clement of Alexandria was wrong (beards shouldn't be required of all men), but to pose that "having a beard is vanity" is ridiculous, considering that many Saints have it, and you haven't become a Saint yet.


Quote
A women is glorified by her hair, not a man.

1 Corinthians 11:2-16

"Now I praise you, brethren, that in all things you are mindful of me: and keep my ordinances as I have delivered them to you.
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered, disgraceth his head.
But every woman praying or prophesying with her head not covered, disgraceth her head: for it is all one as if she were shaven.
For if a woman be not covered, let her be shorn. But if it be a shame to a woman to be shorn or made bald, let her cover her head.
The man indeed ought not to cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of the man.
For the man is not of the woman, but the woman of the man.
For the man was not created for the woman, but the woman for the man."
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: dellery on January 17, 2020, 11:08:50 PM
For men today it seems to be mostly vanity.
Testosterone counts are at a low, by and large, men are more docile and effeminate than ever, but bearded men are increasingly common.
My theory is that nowadays having a beard is an external compensation for being internally emasculated.
Not all bearded males are like this and they know I'm not talking about them here.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: TheReturnofLive on January 17, 2020, 11:13:41 PM
For men today it seems to be mostly vanity.
Testosterone counts are at a low, by and large, men are more docile and effeminate than ever, but bearded men are increasingly common.
My theory is that nowadays having a beard is an external compensation for being internally emasculated.
Not all bearded males are like this and they know I'm not talking about them here.

Fair enough. I can agree with that.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Vetus Ordo on January 18, 2020, 01:38:50 PM
If only we paid attention to those classes and could be a scientist like Vetus is. Then maybe we would recognize the truth of Social Darwinism, which, as we all know, every Biologist subscribes to.

Strawman.

Quote
Do you really think that men and women today are becoming more intelligent, stronger, more beautiful, more motivated, and wealthier per capita?

That was really not my point.

However, since you insist, it's an observable fact that human beings on average are stronger, taller, healthier, better off and more knowledgeable today than in the past. On average, I repeat. This is tied to a number of factors that are not necessarily biological but here we are. The world will still end in disaster, though.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Gardener on January 18, 2020, 02:13:25 PM
The Romans shaved in in imitation of the Greeks, who under Alexander had his soldiers shave to reduce a vector for the enemy to grab them and control their heads.

But the very real military application turned into vanity.

I don’t shave because I’m lazy, and hate non-utilitarian personal grooming.

Having a beard is useful in colder weather, too.

Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Heinrich on January 18, 2020, 02:41:26 PM
The Romans shaved in in imitation of the Greeks, who under Alexander had his soldiers shave to reduce a vector for the enemy to grab them and control their heads.

What's a "vector" in applied militarily applied terminology? Is that why officers tuck their ties in?

Having a beard is useful in colder weather, too.

You live in Dixie.

I have a beard since I live in the wilderness of the wild northf.

Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Gardener on January 18, 2020, 03:07:07 PM
To be honest I probably misused vector. A beard is a thing to grab. Grabbing is bad.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Heinrich on January 18, 2020, 03:32:45 PM
To be honest I probably misused vector. A beard is a thing to grab. Grabbing is bad.

Unless the Scotsman is grabbing another round for us.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: dellery on January 18, 2020, 06:35:55 PM
This thread reminds me about the part in Lord Mahone's history of Belisarius, the great Christian general and one of the Last Romans.
When Belisarius was squaring up with the Germanics they did not respect him because he was bearded; their old lady prophetesses told them that only a clean shaven man could beat them in battle. Belisarius beat them pretty badly.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: awkwardcustomer on January 19, 2020, 01:37:40 PM
Could it be that some women like men with beards and some don't?

And that some men like wearing beards, and some don't?

And even that some men and women aren't bothered either way?  A woman who ordinarily doesn't care for beards might find a five o'clock shadow, or a very trimmed beard, to be quite attractive sometimes?  And that some men might go unshaven for a while, let a trim beard grow and then shave it off because they like a bit of variety?

Each to his own, eh.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Fleur-de-Lys on January 19, 2020, 02:10:59 PM
Could it be that some women like men with beards and some don't?

And that some men like wearing beards, and some don't?

And even that some men and women aren't bothered either way?  A woman who ordinarily doesn't care for beards might find a five o'clock shadow, or a very trimmed beard, to be quite attractive sometimes?  And that some men might go unshaven for a while, let a trim beard grow and then shave it off because they like a bit of variety?

Each to his own, eh.

No, that is far too sensible. We must dogmatize all things!
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Gardener on January 19, 2020, 02:18:01 PM
Could it be that some women like men with beards and some don't?

And that some men like wearing beards, and some don't?

And even that some men and women aren't bothered either way?  A woman who ordinarily doesn't care for beards might find a five o'clock shadow, or a very trimmed beard, to be quite attractive sometimes?  And that some men might go unshaven for a while, let a trim beard grow and then shave it off because they like a bit of variety?

Each to his own, eh.

No, that is far too sensible. We must dogmatize all things!

Anathema Schick!
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Heinrich on January 19, 2020, 03:02:08 PM
Could it be that some women like men with beards and some don't?

And that some men like wearing beards, and some don't?

And even that some men and women aren't bothered either way?  A woman who ordinarily doesn't care for beards might find a five o'clock shadow, or a very trimmed beard, to be quite attractive sometimes?  And that some men might go unshaven for a while, let a trim beard grow and then shave it off because they like a bit of variety?

Each to his own, eh.

Only if they aren't spinach beards, though.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: awkwardcustomer on January 19, 2020, 03:04:36 PM
Could it be that some women like men with beards and some don't?

And that some men like wearing beards, and some don't?

And even that some men and women aren't bothered either way?  A woman who ordinarily doesn't care for beards might find a five o'clock shadow, or a very trimmed beard, to be quite attractive sometimes?  And that some men might go unshaven for a while, let a trim beard grow and then shave it off because they like a bit of variety?

Each to his own, eh.

Only if they aren't spinach beards, though.

I now have an image in my mind of spinach stuck in a beard.

Thank you for that.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Fleur-de-Lys on January 19, 2020, 03:15:49 PM
Directions for future research: whether women are less attracted to men with food stuck in their beards.

Hmmm... That's probably another to-each-her-own situation.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: awkwardcustomer on January 19, 2020, 03:35:29 PM
Directions for future research: whether women are less attracted to men with food stuck in their beards.

Hmmm... That's probably another to-each-her-own situation.

It might depend on how long the food has been stuck in the beard.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: awkwardcustomer on January 19, 2020, 03:37:31 PM
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=outlandish+beards&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=SG9p79XIqc1chM%253A%252CSHraajj0ro4FaM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kR_J-GFLVnin2fpE5H1nS__MXWXRA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjdl7j2wZDnAhVRr3EKHaqBA98Q9QEwAHoECAYQHQ#imgrc=zJ4BVru1ItpVpM:&vet=1

I've forgotten how to post images.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Fleur-de-Lys on January 19, 2020, 03:39:49 PM

It might depend on how long the food has been stuck in the beard.

Good point. I've seen pictures of warriors with bones in their beards. Those might have started out as Buffalo chicken wings.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: awkwardcustomer on January 19, 2020, 03:40:55 PM

It might depend on how long the food has been stuck in the beard.

Good point. I've seen pictures of warriors with bones in their beards. Those might have started out as Buffalo chicken wings.

I laughed out loud.

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: MaximGun on January 20, 2020, 06:46:41 AM
Last night (Sunday evening) my wife was washing one of our children when the bath leaked.  I'd worked all weekend on house and garden projects, gutter cleaning, composting, tidying, fixing electrical items and had just started watching a Jimmy Stewart cowboy movie I'd found on YouTube where he saves a young Apache brave at the start.  She came in and said, "I know you don't want to hear this now but the bath is leaking from below the bath onto the tiled floor".  It was a slow leak so no risk of water damage.

I groaned, but I got up and went to sort it out.  It required, the side panel of the tub to be removed and that I fabricated a new gasket from some old rubber roof sheeting material I had left over from another job.  (Never throw anything away).  When I had finished it was all watertight and I cleaned the bath panel at the same time.  Took about 100minutes.

If you have a lot of people in the home the house is going to wear out faster and require more maintenance that is a fact of life.  Better learn to fix stuff.

In my experience, being able to fix the home and do it quickly will get you more Brownie points (and sex from your wife) than facial hair alone will.  If this were not true then ISIS fighters would not need to kidnap women to rape them.  Fanatical Muslims are useless mechanics which is why they drive Toyotas and run them in to the ground and have to import engineers for their oil industry.

Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Vetus Ordo on January 20, 2020, 03:46:47 PM
In my experience, being able to fix the home and do it quickly will get you more Brownie points (and sex from your wife) than facial hair alone will.

Good advice, Maxim (or is it Greg?), but you're already married to her. She already found you attractive to begin with, with or without a beard.

Let's put it this way: the beard, as a physical trait of masculinity, is the icing on the cake. Unlike others, it can be dispensed with if the man in question has a good bone structure that shows, i.e., square jaw and a strong brow. If not, it might be better if he sports a beard to mask it. The more masculine he looks, the more chances he'll have of reproducing.

Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: MaximGun on January 21, 2020, 01:12:10 PM
How is it then that Asia holds most of the population of the world, 4.5 billion, and most Asians have no beards to speak of.  Or the ability to grow more than a wispy beard, if indeed anything grows at all?

Sikhs have the lowest birth rate in India against all the other ethnic groups.  Yet sikhs ALL have thick beards and most Indians have no beard or no ability to grow a good strong beard.

There is not much advantage to having a beard and "being a man" unless you can convince your wife to bear your progeny.   That is not a man.  It is just a eunuch, with a beard, who will leave no significant mark on the world.

I don't see how beards help you have more sons and daughters.  Making yourself a good provider and a useful practical husband seems like a more likely way to convince your wife to pop out another child.  The best of all, currently, is to be a black man in Africa.  The top 30 highest birthrates in the world are ALL African countries.  Whatever the Africans are doing it is working.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Vetus Ordo on January 21, 2020, 05:35:30 PM
There is not much advantage to having a beard and "being a man" unless you can convince your wife to bear your progeny.

Insofar as the beard is a masculine trait, it can make you look more masculine, as I've discussed previously. It's an optional feature but it can help. Men who look more masculine are always at an advantage over those who look less masculine. That's all it means. It's simple biology.

Being a good provider and a trustworthy person are traits that will contribute to a sustainable marriage but those aren't the traits that enabled you to get married to begin with. Those things help but only as they enhance your primary attractiveness as a person and as man. Your wife is not sexually attracted to you because you're Mr. Fix It. Nor is intimacy a debt owed to works or roles performed.

Quote
The best of all, currently, is to be a black man in Africa. The top 30 highest birthrates in the world are ALL African countries. Whatever the Africans are doing it is working.

They're dirt poor. That's the main reason.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: dellery on January 21, 2020, 10:15:26 PM
There is not much advantage to having a beard and "being a man" unless you can convince your wife to bear your progeny.

Insofar as the beard is a masculine trait, it can make you look more masculine, as I've discussed previously. It's an optional feature but it can help. Men who look more masculine are always at an advantage over those who look less masculine. That's all it means. It's simple biology.

Being a good provider and a trustworthy person are traits that will contribute to a sustainable marriage but those aren't the traits that enabled you to get married to begin with. Those things help but only as they enhance your primary attractiveness as a person and as man. Your wife is not sexually attracted to you because you're Mr. Fix It. Nor is intimacy a debt owed to works or roles performed.

Quote
The best of all, currently, is to be a black man in Africa. The top 30 highest birthrates in the world are ALL African countries. Whatever the Africans are doing it is working.

They're dirt poor. That's the main reason.

This is completely untrue.

Earlier today I was behind a bearded man at the diesel pump. He filled up, put the pump away, and then sat in his car for a few minutes. Not wanting to wait for this man to finish checking his social media accounts I got out and tapped on his window. They guy was scared. Me asking him to move out of the way so I could fuel up too made him visibly uncomfortable.

I've got an intense personality. Females tend to find it amusing but it puts a lot of guys off.

Ever look men in the eye? Rarely do they look back. A women or girl will look at you directly in the eyes, but not all men do.

Sometimes I ride the cart out of the grocery store like a skateboard and watch the tough-guys shrivel before such a gratuitous display of bravado.

Maxim is right. A man who knows how to do things will always know he's superior to the average softy, and will treat soft incapable men as the children they are.

Think a beard helps mitigate against all this??

Think that beard makes you look like more of a man than the guy who scares you just by looking at you??

Trying to game women with facades and PUA gimmicks only works until you have to compete with the real thing --the man who you try to look like and pretend to be, the man who is not faking it.

If your girl sees you getting intimidated by my intensity all your cool beard points will blow away with the wind.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Vetus Ordo on January 21, 2020, 11:00:17 PM
This is completely untrue.

Earlier today I was behind a bearded man at the diesel pump. He filled up, put the pump away, and then sat in his car for a few minutes. Not wanting to wait for this man to finish checking his social media accounts I got out and tapped on his window. They guy was scared. Me asking him to move out of the way so I could fuel up too made him visibly uncomfortable.

I've got an intense personality. Females tend to find it amusing but it puts a lot of guys off.

Ever look men in the eye? Rarely do they look back. A women or girl will look at you directly in the eyes, but not all men do.

Sometimes I ride the cart out of the grocery store like a skateboard and watch the tough-guys shrivel before such a gratuitous display of bravado.

Maxim is right. A man who knows how to do things will always know he's superior to the average softy, and will treat soft incapable men as the children they are.

Think a beard helps mitigate against all this??

Think that beard makes you look like more of a man than the guy who scares you just by looking at you??

Trying to game women with facades and PUA gimmicks only works until you have to compete with the real thing --the man who you try to look like and pretend to be, the man who is not faking it.

If your girl sees you getting intimidated by my intensity all your cool beard points will blow away with the wind.

Stop trying look like a masculine man and just be man.

Besides utterly missing the point about the beard being an external or physical trait of masculinity and how that relates to the basic biology behind attraction, your idiotic rant about gratuitous displays of bravado and intense gazes doesn't even support Maxim's assertions about a man being useful and dependable in the context of marriage. Your gibberish about riding carts out of the grocery store like skateboards or looking in other men's eyes and presumably scaring them only proves that you're out of touch with reality or haven't outgrown junior high. You seem to take comfort in barking a lot, Dellery. And you know what they say about barking dogs.

A free piece of advice: when you are unable to engage meaningfully with an argument and you decide to jump into a discussion beating your chest and making a fool of yourself, that's a bad look. It demonstrates that you're obtuse and that you can't sit at the table with grown-ups and have a normal discussion. That's a turn off to any woman worth her salt.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: dellery on January 21, 2020, 11:08:31 PM
This is completely untrue.

Earlier today I was behind a bearded man at the diesel pump. He filled up, put the pump away, and then sat in his car for a few minutes. Not wanting to wait for this man to finish checking his social media accounts I got out and tapped on his window. They guy was scared. Me asking him to move out of the way so I could fuel up too made him visibly uncomfortable.

I've got an intense personality. Females tend to find it amusing but it puts a lot of guys off.

Ever look men in the eye? Rarely do they look back. A women or girl will look at you directly in the eyes, but not all men do.

Sometimes I ride the cart out of the grocery store like a skateboard and watch the tough-guys shrivel before such a gratuitous display of bravado.

Maxim is right. A man who knows how to do things will always know he's superior to the average softy, and will treat soft incapable men as the children they are.

Think a beard helps mitigate against all this??

Think that beard makes you look like more of a man than the guy who scares you just by looking at you??

Trying to game women with facades and PUA gimmicks only works until you have to compete with the real thing --the man who you try to look like and pretend to be, the man who is not faking it.

If your girl sees you getting intimidated by my intensity all your cool beard points will blow away with the wind.

Stop trying look like a masculine man and just be man.

Besides utterly missing the point about the beard being an external or physical trait of masculinity and how that relates to the basic biology behind attraction, your idiotic rant about gratuitous displays of bravado and intense gazes doesn't even support Maxim's assertions about a man being useful and dependable in the context of marriage. Your gibberish about riding carts out of the grocery store like skateboards or looking in other men's eyes and presumably scaring them only proves that you're out of touch with reality or haven't outgrown junior high. You seem to take comfort in barking a lot, Dellery. And you know what they say about barking dogs.

A free piece of advice: when you are unable to engage meaningfully with an argument and you decide to jump into a discussion beating your chest and making a fool of yourself, that's a bad look. It demonstrates that you're obtuse and that you can't sit at the table with grown-ups and have a normal discussion. That's a turn off to any woman worth her salt.

How you are treated by other men, and how you respond to them is an external and very visible trait of masculinity. The same goes for being a useful husband. The way a useful husband interacts with a non-useful male is also visible to others. Sure this isn't the strict context that Maxim was speaking in, but I presumed you were smart enough to get the point, and it was you, in fact, who utterly missed it
So let me reiterate: How you interact with other people, especially other males, is visible to others, and speaks more to your masculinity than whatever hair you can grow on your face does.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Vetus Ordo on January 21, 2020, 11:34:36 PM
So let me reiterate: How you interact with other people, especially other males, is visible to others, and speaks more to your masculinity than whatever hair you can grow on your face does.

An uncontroversial observation that has nothing to do with the point about beards being a physical trait of masculinity that, along with others, is at the root of the biological laws of attraction.

Maybe you wouldn't have missed the point if you hadn't mindlessly jumped into this thread the same way you ride out of the grocery store with your cart like a teenager with a hormonal imbalance. Better than staring intensely into other men's eyes, is trying to interact meaningfully with what they say.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: dellery on January 21, 2020, 11:48:04 PM

Insofar as the beard is a masculine trait, it can make you look more masculine, as I've discussed previously. It's an optional feature but it can help. Men who look more masculine are always at an advantage over those who look less masculine. That's all it means. It's simple biology.


The underlying implication here is that being masculine looking is better and more attractive than being masculine and non-masculine looking. Maybe this applies for girls on Tinder, but I wouldn't know.
What I do know is that when a non-masculine looking guy scares you in front of your girl you don't look so masculine anymore, no matter how well you've perfected your look.
Making sense yet?
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Vetus Ordo on January 22, 2020, 12:09:11 AM
The underlying implication here is that being masculine looking is better and more attractive than being masculine and non-masculine looking. Maybe this applies for girls on Tinder, but I wouldn't know.

Being masculine looking is better than not being masculine looking. It's not a hard concept to understand. Forget about Tinder and open a biology book.

Quote
What I do know is that when a non-masculine looking guy...

Okay, you can't grow a beard. That's fine.

Quote
...scares you in front of your girl you don't look so masculine anymore, no matter how well you've perfected your look.

Let's just admit for the sake of this fantasy of yours that you are out there scaring other guys in front of their women with your piercing gaze. I hate to break it to you, Dellery, but that doesn't make you look masculine. It makes you look like a lunatic. Given that such behavior comes from a guy that doesn't look that masculine to begin with and that skates out of stores with shopping carts, then it borders on the psychotic. You might want to seek professional help.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: dellery on January 22, 2020, 12:20:58 AM
Perhaps you may want to look back through this last page here and see how much of a baby I've made you act like.

Something tells me a guy riding a shopping cart ran your foot over as he was stealing your girl.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Graham on January 22, 2020, 12:00:29 PM
Actual photo of Dellery's intense gaze

(https://linustechtips.com/main/uploads/monthly_2019_08/nicolascage-faceoff-crazy.thumb.jpg.f9cfedd03b352ddc5252fa81b3ae07f3.jpg)
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Xavier on January 22, 2020, 03:08:55 PM
Quote from: Vetus
Quote from: Maxim
The best of all, currently, is to be a black man in Africa. The top 30 highest birthrates in the world are ALL African countries. Whatever the Africans are doing it is working.

They're dirt poor. That's the main reason.

No, not necessarily. Maxim/Greg is correct about the statistics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projections_of_population_growth As for the explanation of them, probably one reason is that contraception use and abortion has not become as widespread in Africa as it sadly is in Europe? He's also right that 4.5 of the world's 7.5 billion people are from Asia. Africa's population is nearly 1.3 billion. Europe's population would probably be over 2 billion now if not for abortion and contraception. It is currently around 750 million. If Europeans want to turn the trend around, they had better start getting married young and having many more children. Trads understand that, and that's very good, but very few others do.

Quote from: Maxim
Sikhs have the lowest birth rate in India against all the other ethnic groups.  Yet sikhs ALL have thick beards and most Indians have no beard or no ability to grow a good strong beard.

I'm Asian and Indian, and this is ridiculous, MaximGun. I can easily grow a beard if I have to. If Sikhs can do it, all Indians can do it. Sikhs do do it because their religion prescribes it. As for our religion, it is a curious thing in my opinion which I've never fully understood, that Roman Rite Priests are required to be tonsured, and generally clean shaved, while in the Eastern Rite Churches, many Bishops, Priests and Monks, are expected and required to let their hair grow freely and actually do so, as we know. I have no explanation for that.

But it is so. If I was married, I would do whatever my wife finds more attractive. My guess is most women like bearded men. Most of my married friends in India have beards.
Title: Re: Bearded men are less attractive to women squeamish about bugs
Post by: Vetus Ordo on January 22, 2020, 04:17:13 PM
Quote from: Vetus
Quote from: Maxim
The best of all, currently, is to be a black man in Africa. The top 30 highest birthrates in the world are ALL African countries. Whatever the Africans are doing it is working.

They're dirt poor. That's the main reason.

No, not necessarily. Maxim/Greg is correct about the statistics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projections_of_population_growth As for the explanation of them, probably one reason is that contraception use and abortion has not become as widespread in Africa as it sadly is in Europe?

Generally speaking, the higher the degree of education and GDP per capita in a given society, the fewer children are born in it. This is an observable statistic.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/TFR_vs_PPP_2015.png/400px-TFR_vs_PPP_2015.png)