Non-doctrinal problems among Traditional Catholics

Started by Arvinger, May 22, 2022, 07:08:56 AM

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dellery

Quote from: Michael Wilson on May 22, 2022, 09:46:31 AM
Arvinger,
thank you for the thread; I agree on the main with your list. I can easily name the guys that are guilty of some of those items, but I will point the finger to myself on one of those:
Re. "Evangelization"; I'm really guilty on this one; You wouldn't know it from all my posts here, but I am extremely reluctant ever to bring up religion in any of my conversations with others; I go out of my way to avoid controversy; I am even fearful of entering into a discussion about religion with non-Catholics, Heaven forbid ever trying to actually convert anyone.

People nowadays don't wanna hear about our Faith, most everybody has heard enough, and they want to see our Faith in action.

Spoken evangelization works best on people that are ready to have an honest discussion and have already opened themselves up to leaving their present beliefs in pursuit of the Truth.

For everybody else you need to speak with your actions to defeat people's mental firewall.
For most people in the midst of Truth-Decay, or Post-Truth, the moment you say something they don't like it becomes "false" in their minds. They've got a conditioned response to put up a mental barrier to things that contradict their worldview.
Words will never work on these people.

For somebody like yourself, the most effective way to evangelize is probably just to be yourself, and passively and subtly signal to people you're Catholic. Instead of telling people that you're Catholic, just wear a Rosary bracelet or some other "signal" for people to pick up on.
Show them a little part of your Faith while demonstrating with your actions what kind of man it has made you.
Amidst the degradation of society and people's personal conduct, a Catholic gentleman will not only be appreciated but emulated as well.

Always be, and look, cool.
Blessed are those who plant trees under whose shade they will never sit.

The closer you get to life the better death will be; the closer you get to death the better life will be.

Nous Defions
St. Phillip Neri, pray for us.

AlNg

Quote from: Arvinger on May 22, 2022, 07:08:56 AM

Anti-semitism. Again, true claims taken too far.
This is something I have noticed also.

sleepybluebird

Quote from: dellery on May 23, 2022, 06:27:28 AM
Quote from: Michael Wilson on May 22, 2022, 09:46:31 AM
Arvinger,
thank you for the thread; I agree on the main with your list. I can easily name the guys that are guilty of some of those items, but I will point the finger to myself on one of those:
Re. "Evangelization"; I'm really guilty on this one; You wouldn't know it from all my posts here, but I am extremely reluctant ever to bring up religion in any of my conversations with others; I go out of my way to avoid controversy; I am even fearful of entering into a discussion about religion with non-Catholics, Heaven forbid ever trying to actually convert anyone.

People nowadays don't wanna hear about our Faith, most everybody has heard enough, and they want to see our Faith in action.

Spoken evangelization works best on people that are ready to have an honest discussion and have already opened themselves up to leaving their present beliefs in pursuit of the Truth.

For everybody else you need to speak with your actions to defeat people's mental firewall.
For most people in the midst of Truth-Decay, or Post-Truth, the moment you say something they don't like it becomes "false" in their minds. They've got a conditioned response to put up a mental barrier to things that contradict their worldview.
Words will never work on these people.

For somebody like yourself, the most effective way to evangelize is probably just to be yourself, and passively and subtly signal to people you're Catholic. Instead of telling people that you're Catholic, just wear a Rosary bracelet or some other "signal" for people to pick up on.
Show them a little part of your Faith while demonstrating with your actions what kind of man it has made you.
Amidst the degradation of society and people's personal conduct, a Catholic gentleman will not only be appreciated but emulated as well.

Always be, and look, cool.

Dellery, you bring up a lot of good points!

It's true that subtle signals (from someone whose behavior reflects a solid Catholic faith) can mean a lot.  Sacramentals pique curiosity (even from those people who might currently believe they are superstitious and unnecessary), and can lead to a potentially fruitful conversation.

Actions mean so much!  People want to emulate someone virtuous and capable, even if they want to pretend they don't.  And even if someone has visible markers of their prior life, their behavior can show the change that Christ has made in them, which is inspiring to someone who might be stuck in that particular sin or lifestyle.  One thing that feels so good about being at Mass is knowing that everyone around you, no matter what they look like or where they come from, is there because they love Christ, His Mother, and His Church.  Reverent behavior and penitential actions show this.

Outgoing people can naturally kind of take it from there, and work up to inviting someone to Mass.  Shy people can see where the conversation leads, and maybe direct someone to another resource or person who might be more comfortable or able to continue discussing a particular aspect of the faith.

I'm mostly shy too in discussing certain topics, but am really eager to talk to others about the Church, because of being so excited about converting.  Hoping that this feeling doesn't wear off in a year or so, like some people say.  So extra prayers for you, Michael Wilson, that you can find a way to share your faith with the people you meet throughout the week.  You have so many good and helpful things to say too, and such a kind way of saying them.

And definitely, looking cool is a great way to grab someone's interest.  ;D I'll have to get to work on this, haha.

Markus

Quote from: Borygo on May 22, 2022, 11:55:10 AM
I would add to this list: lack of proper respect towards public authorities.

  This is manifested, for example, in a very disrespectful treatment of those legal provisions which, for various reasons, are not very difficult for us, but are not related to the command to commit sin. A good example is the attitude of traditional priests and laity to the state's mandate to wear masks. Although obedience to this law was not associated with anything overtly immoral or openly unjust (and in principle, in these two cases, it is or can be denied obedience to authority and law) among traditional priests and laity, this provision was widely disregarded, and moreover, who obeyed him.

Ps. Sorry for my bad English.

What a foolish comment

Tennessean

"E-excuse me sir or madam, are you wearing your state-mandated underwear?"

Melkor

Quote from: dellery on May 23, 2022, 06:27:28 AM
Quote from: Michael Wilson on May 22, 2022, 09:46:31 AM
Arvinger,
thank you for the thread; I agree on the main with your list. I can easily name the guys that are guilty of some of those items, but I will point the finger to myself on one of those:
Re. "Evangelization"; I'm really guilty on this one; You wouldn't know it from all my posts here, but I am extremely reluctant ever to bring up religion in any of my conversations with others; I go out of my way to avoid controversy; I am even fearful of entering into a discussion about religion with non-Catholics, Heaven forbid ever trying to actually convert anyone.

People nowadays don't wanna hear about our Faith, most everybody has heard enough, and they want to see our Faith in action.

Spoken evangelization works best on people that are ready to have an honest discussion and have already opened themselves up to leaving their present beliefs in pursuit of the Truth.

For everybody else you need to speak with your actions to defeat people's mental firewall.
For most people in the midst of Truth-Decay, or Post-Truth, the moment you say something they don't like it becomes "false" in their minds. They've got a conditioned response to put up a mental barrier to things that contradict their worldview.
Words will never work on these people.

For somebody like yourself, the most effective way to evangelize is probably just to be yourself, and passively and subtly signal to people you're Catholic. Instead of telling people that you're Catholic, just wear a Rosary bracelet or some other "signal" for people to pick up on.
Show them a little part of your Faith while demonstrating with your actions what kind of man it has made you.
Amidst the degradation of society and people's personal conduct, a Catholic gentleman will not only be appreciated but emulated as well.

Always be, and look, cool.

What a well-thought out and practical response. Dellery is spot on!
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Am I not here, I who am your mother?" Mary to Juan Diego

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented." G.K. Chesterton

"Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill." Jesus Christ

lauermar

#21
I am involved in the Blue Army for the Kolbe national shrine. We go door to door with the Pilgrim Virgin. That said, evangelism only takes you so far. It is up to BVM and the Holy Ghost to convert them. We took the Fatima statue to an Asian home that had filthy erotic art, pagan statues and dreamcatchers all over. They reserved their outdoor shed for the BVM visitation. Too bad they didn't invite Her Majesty in their home. It wasn't our place to call them out on it, only to pray for them.
"I am not a pessimist. I am not an optimist. I am a realist." Father Malachi Martin (1921-1999)

AlNg

Quote from: Arvinger on May 22, 2022, 07:08:56 AM
In this aspect we need more people with attitude like Dimond brothers -
The Dimond brothers say that today's Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon and that the Eucharist of today's Catholic Church is just bread and that the bishops and priests (ordained in the New rite) of today's Catholic Church are just laymen, like you or I. And when you go to confession, you might as well go to someone in the street and confess to him or her, because confession to a priest ordained in the new rite or confession to someone in the street are both worthless in effecting the forgiveness of sin.
If this were true, it would mean that the Catholic Church has defected.

AlNg

Quote from: Arvinger on May 22, 2022, 07:08:56 AM
Many of you certainly remember a user Jerome who criticied members of our form in thread about movies for watching films with nudity, violence, etc. Granted, he was a bit patronizing about it and his attitude was not best, but he backed up all his claims with teachings from Magisterium, Church Fathers, Saints and Doctors of the Church. What he received in response was mostly scorn and ridicule -
I agree with Jerome. But I would also include the foul language and the use of Our Lord's Holy Name in vain.

Paul_D

Quote from: AlNg on May 23, 2022, 06:14:05 PM
Quote from: Arvinger on May 22, 2022, 07:08:56 AM

Anti-semitism. Again, true claims taken too far.
This is something I have noticed also.

Actually, I find among the mainstream Traditionalists that downplay the opposition of post-Temple Judaism to the Church. In fact, many of them seem to ignore the hostility of Judaism. In this respect, I find it rather similar to the philo-Judaic tendencies in many Catholic places and countries in the past, especially Spain.