Suscipe Domine Traditional Catholic Forum

The Church Courtyard => General Catholic Discussion => Topic started by: Pietrelcina on May 18, 2020, 10:39:26 PM

Title: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Pietrelcina on May 18, 2020, 10:39:26 PM
Would it be considered wrong for lay people to wear masks during Mass?  Is there any teaching that would contradict this practice?  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: clau clau on May 19, 2020, 04:01:38 AM
I wouldn't but I don't think any reasonable person would object.

My Mum must be laughing out loud right now. She used to absolutely hate the sign of peace; It was visceral. The very same happy clappy, guitar wielding, age of aquarius promoting, God is everywhere, hug everybody in sight at the sign of peace types would now be cowering in the basement with a mask.

The sign of peace is as dead as a Dodo at this point.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/p1vYibMQ0-xO8xr_ss4r0p_AKizy1gIGumtA4Itn0n3nCdXxTawptdJ6TS0v_7lPGUZy_KaW9ONkfwDx5LXLcS6XEgMkX0T8G1tsTGxv9g2zBUPAUSU2pKlzbkpf5mmeob3NveBdB7YNu3rfEJ2z2aQ03NY6PdhjSDs)
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Daniel on May 19, 2020, 05:10:25 AM
Well on the one hand, you might think that wearing a mask is an act of charity. Because supposedly it reduces the spread of sickness and whatnot. Whether there's any truth to this, I cannot say. It seems to make sense. So I suppose that if that's your intention, then there's not much wrong with it.

But I think this is more of a false charity. The fact is, the coronavirus really isn't a big deal. And even if it was, what people don't seem to realize that nobody becomes sick unless God wills it. The mask thus connotes man's rebellion against God. The salvific powers of secular scientists and government have surpassed even those of God, and so we don't need God anymore. We can close the churches, and ditch the sacraments, and even cut off contact with our neighbor... so long as we hide behind the mask. It's literally become a type of the mark of the beast: nobody is permitted to buy or sell groceries unless he wears a mask.

Now ignoring all the coronavirus nonsense, the one thing that I'd say that would be "wrong" about wearing a mask is the simple fact that it's a bit odd to be wearing a surgical mask if you're not a surgeon. I believe the whole mask-wearing thing began in Japan several years back as a fashion craze, and in the past few years began gaining momentum even in America. But just as we don't wear trendy clothes to church such as to draw attention to ourselves, and just as we don't wear Halloween masks or masquerade masks to church, we also probably shouldn't be surgical wearing masks to church. Because it's a vain and inappropriate thing to do.

Though I suppose that wearing a plain surgical mask in the midst of an epi-pandemic might not be comparable to wearing a Halloween mask for no good reason whatsoever.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Lynne on May 19, 2020, 05:37:46 AM
The State of Massachusetts has decreed that masks must be worn at Mass. I'm not sure what they've said about the distribution of Holy Communion, I'm afraid to look.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Bernadette on May 19, 2020, 06:24:57 AM
Masks are probably going to be mandatory at Mass here too. I don't mind wearing one- it's not that much of an inconvenience. I can't see the why there would be any objection. Who would be the one be objecting, anyway? I can't think it would be the bishop.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: The Curt Jester on May 19, 2020, 06:38:23 AM
It's recommended that those with respiratory ailments do not wear masks.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: clau clau on May 19, 2020, 06:40:12 AM
I have a respiratory ailment (allegedly) </sarcasm>
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: The Curt Jester on May 19, 2020, 06:44:20 AM
Next time I go in the store, I will do so without a mask and see what they say.  I never had issues before, but it wasn't "mandatory" back then.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: MundaCorMeum on May 19, 2020, 06:52:29 AM
I've yet to wear a mask anywhere, and no one has said anything to me.  We're not required to wear one at Mass, either, though our first time to go back will be this weekend. 
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: awkwardcustomer on May 19, 2020, 07:06:57 AM
Quote from: clau clau on May 19, 2020, 04:01:38 AM
The sign of peace is as dead as a Dodo at this point.

Every cloud has a silver lining.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Stu Cool on May 19, 2020, 09:12:56 AM
Quote from: The Curt Jester on May 19, 2020, 06:38:23 AM
It's recommended that those with respiratory ailments do not wear masks.

Do you happen to have a source for this?  I've seen most say that people with respiratory ailments (e.g. asthma) should wear it.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Gardener on May 19, 2020, 09:35:55 AM
Massk™!: get your set of liturgical facements today with all liturgical colors.

Choose from fiddlefront or gothic. For an extra $5 you can get a maniple for your mandible while supplies last!
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: The Curt Jester on May 19, 2020, 09:41:26 AM
Quote from: Stu Cool on May 19, 2020, 09:12:56 AM
Quote from: The Curt Jester on May 19, 2020, 06:38:23 AM
It's recommended that those with respiratory ailments do not wear masks.

Do you happen to have a source for this?  I've seen most say that people with respiratory ailments (e.g. asthma) should wear it.

One of the Illinois official publications stated it.  I don't remember which.

Masks decrease the intake of oxygen.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: TradGranny on May 19, 2020, 12:44:14 PM
Quote from: Daniel on May 19, 2020, 05:10:25 AM
nobody becomes sick unless God wills it. The mask thus connotes man's rebellion against God.

Are you saying that no one should eat right, exercise or take supplements -- because to do so would be rebel against God? Since we won't ever get sick unless God wills it?
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Miriam_M on May 19, 2020, 01:52:55 PM
Quote from: Stu Cool on May 19, 2020, 09:12:56 AM
Quote from: The Curt Jester on May 19, 2020, 06:38:23 AM
It's recommended that those with respiratory ailments do not wear masks.

Do you happen to have a source for this?  I've seen most say that people with respiratory ailments (e.g. asthma) should wear it.

Who are "most?"  I've not heard physicians say that asthmatics should wear masks. 
1. Masks constrict the airways, which is not a good idea for us asthmatics.
2. Asthmatics without COPD are not a high-risk group for Corona or complications. ("respiratory ailments" is unscientifically broad.)
3. Even the sense of having our air cut off magnifies anxiety, which definitely is a medical concern for us asthmatics.

I'm disgusted that there is no credible and consistent medical leadership about this, but some more-aware individual locations will announce, and have, "Masks are required except for those with breathing problems."

People with severe breathing problems every day (COPD patients, for example -- anyone with fixed or portable oxygen tanks or in danger of that) should self-quarantine and should be very, very apart from people by choice because their complication of COPD makes it more likely that they will end up in critical care or worse.  The idea of COPD patients walking around equally with others in the general public, "wearing masks," is absurd on its face.

There is so much "popular" junk-science that is driving policies on both the micro (stores, cities, counties) and the macro (states, nation) basis that this entire response is a disaster.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Miriam_M on May 19, 2020, 01:58:55 PM
Quote from: TradGranny on May 19, 2020, 12:44:14 PM
Quote from: Daniel on May 19, 2020, 05:10:25 AM
nobody becomes sick unless God wills it. The mask thus connotes man's rebellion against God.

Are you saying that no one should eat right, exercise or take supplements -- because to do so would be rebel against God? Since we won't ever get sick unless God wills it?

Daniel will answer for himself, but my own vigorous approval of Daniel's fantastic post does not suggest your question here.

I will thank you more in depth later, Daniel.
:)
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Daniel on May 19, 2020, 05:33:04 PM
Quote from: TradGranny on May 19, 2020, 12:44:14 PM
Quote from: Daniel on May 19, 2020, 05:10:25 AM
nobody becomes sick unless God wills it. The mask thus connotes man's rebellion against God.

Are you saying that no one should eat right, exercise or take supplements -- because to do so would be rebel against God? Since we won't ever get sick unless God wills it?

Guess that's a fair point. I dunno. :shrug: Still, something about the way people are (over)reacting just seems diabolical. It's misplaced trust and senseless fear to say the least. And at least in my imagination, that's a great deal of what the surgical mask symbolizes--fear and misplaced trust.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: trentcath on May 19, 2020, 05:34:36 PM
Quote from: Daniel on May 19, 2020, 05:10:25 AM

Now ignoring all the coronavirus nonsense, the one thing that I'd say that would be "wrong" about wearing a mask is the simple fact that it's a bit odd to be wearing a surgical mask if you're not a surgeon. I believe the whole mask-wearing thing began in Japan several years back as a fashion craze, and in the past few years began gaining momentum even in America. But just as we don't wear trendy clothes to church such as to draw attention to ourselves, and just as we don't wear Halloween masks or masquerade masks to church, we also probably shouldn't be surgical wearing masks to church. Because it's a vain and inappropriate thing to do.



I don't think this is true, I am pretty sure its an Asian thing which started after the SARS epidemic. Frankly, I also think this habit and lack of hysteria is why Asian countries, excluding China for obvious reasons, have handled Coronavirus much better than us.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: coffeeandcigarette on May 19, 2020, 07:28:22 PM
Quote from: Daniel on May 19, 2020, 05:33:04 PM


Guess that's a fair point. I dunno. :shrug: Still, something about the way people are (over)reacting just seems diabolical. It's misplaced trust and senseless fear to say the least. And at least in my imagination, that's a great deal of what the surgical mask symbolizes--fear and misplaced trust.

I understand where you are coming from. People are certainly overreacting, and it is very, very political. However, we wash our hands after using the toilet, we wash our hands before we eat, surgeons wash their hands between patients, we house animals separately from humans, we refrigerate meat and dairy. Following your logic I should never field dress a kill, I can just haul it home on my four wheeler intact because God won't let it putrefy and spoil unless it is His will that I die...? We take hundreds of steps every week in order to meet God half-way on the health and safety front. I think wearing a mask is in the same spirit.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Tales on May 19, 2020, 07:30:29 PM
Wearing a mask in public is the cultural norm in countries like Japan.  In Japan if a person is sick he should wear a mask to help lessen the spread of the illness and indicate to others that said person is ill.  Other Asian countries do this as well as a good hygiene practice and care for others.

Wearing a mask is no less trusting in God than is drinking water or brushing your teeth.  Daniel, you are not God's little robot.



Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: coffeeandcigarette on May 19, 2020, 07:36:05 PM
Quote from: Davis Blank - EG on May 19, 2020, 07:30:29 PM
Wearing a mask in public is the cultural norm in countries like Japan.  In Japan if a person is sick he should wear a mask to help lessen the spread of the illness and indicate to others that said person is ill.  Other Asian countries do this as well as a good hygiene practice and care for others.


Why do you think that is? Do you think it is because these cultures have such a built-in respect for elders? Are they more concerned with keeping them safe than western countries?
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Tales on May 19, 2020, 07:55:50 PM
I think the answer to that is extremely complex and one that maybe after many more years of researching our European cultural roots I will better understand.

From a logical standpoint it makes sense.  If you are sick with a contagious airborne virus that you expel through sneezes and moisture from your breath then wearing a mask is a courteous thing to do for those around you.  Not only does it assist in reducing contagion but it also visually indicates to all others a warning that they can choose to avoid infection if they want. Doctors wear masks to help protect their patients.  So the question is less so why do Asians do it (since it makes sense) but rather why do Westerners resist it so fiercely.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Miriam_M on May 19, 2020, 08:46:08 PM
Quote from: Davis Blank - EG on May 19, 2020, 07:30:29 PM
Wearing a mask in public is the cultural norm in countries like Japan.  In Japan if a person is sick he should wear a mask to help lessen the spread of the illness and indicate to others that said person is ill.  Other Asian countries do this as well as a good hygiene practice and care for others.

Wearing a mask is no less trusting in God than is drinking water or brushing your teeth.  Daniel, you are not God's little robot.

What a rude and condescending way to reply to him.  I do not read anything in his post that suggests he believes he is "God's little robot."

How obnoxious can you be?

Other people from other countries than Asian countries are entitled to their opinions regarding cultural norms.  I happen to think it's disordered to wear masks routinely unless one is living routinely in a highly contaminated/dangerous existence.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Tales on May 19, 2020, 09:08:27 PM
Miriam,

I have discussed with Daniel freewill and "God's little robot" multiple times over multiple threads over the past 2-3 years.  Given that I have tried to help him many times in overcoming his analysis paralysis towards life, I doubt he thinks I was being rude for I was not attempting to be rude as discussions between he and I indicate.

Specifically, his comment that:

Quotewhat people don't seem to realize that nobody becomes sick unless God wills it. The mask thus connotes man's rebellion against God.

Indicates that he is still struggling with freewill.  My reply is in response to the general theme of all his posts over the years, not merely one specific post.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 05:33:10 AM
Masks are gags, basically, to muzzle people into silence.  They are deeply sinister and all the more so because they are justified on the basis of consideration for others. 
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Tales on May 20, 2020, 07:23:44 AM
I can speak through a surgical mask.  In what aspect is it a gag to muzzle people into silence?
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 07:53:18 AM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 05:33:10 AM
Masks are gags, basically, to muzzle people into silence.  They are deeply sinister and all the more so because they are justified on the basis of consideration for others.

Lol, sorry, but I think a lot of the people on this thread are a little too paranoid.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: abc123 on May 20, 2020, 08:09:09 AM
Quote from: Davis Blank - EG on May 20, 2020, 07:23:44 AM
I can speak through a surgical mask.  In what aspect is it a gag to muzzle people into silence?

It's a form of social pressure and conformity. People have been so conditioned to conform now that those of us who refuse to wear masks in public are scorned as "selfish".
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: abc123 on May 20, 2020, 08:12:11 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 07:53:18 AM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 05:33:10 AM
Masks are gags, basically, to muzzle people into silence.  They are deeply sinister and all the more so because they are justified on the basis of consideration for others.

Lol, sorry, but I think a lot of the people on this thread are a little too paranoid.

Scoffing at those who raise the alarm regarding "minor inconveniences" to our liberties is a major contributor to the current situation where people conform to unconstitutional house arrest.

If we are frogs I'd say we're just about cooked.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 08:46:49 AM
Quote from: Davis Blank - EG on May 20, 2020, 07:23:44 AM
I can speak through a surgical mask.  In what aspect is it a gag to muzzle people into silence?

You can speak through a surgical mask - for how long?  Can two people wearing masks have a conversation?  What about a family or group at the table? 

The symbolism is overt enough, at least to me, without the practical difficulties.  Cover your mouth, stifle your speech, keep social interactions to a minimum.  You are being silenced.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 08:51:56 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 07:53:18 AM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 05:33:10 AM
Masks are gags, basically, to muzzle people into silence.  They are deeply sinister and all the more so because they are justified on the basis of consideration for others.

Lol, sorry, but I think a lot of the people on this thread are a little too paranoid.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Blue Violet on May 20, 2020, 10:44:06 AM
Quote from: Daniel on May 19, 2020, 05:10:25 AM
Well on the one hand, you might think that wearing a mask is an act of charity. Because supposedly it reduces the spread of sickness and whatnot. Whether there's any truth to this, I cannot say. It seems to make sense. So I suppose that if that's your intention, then there's not much wrong with it.

But I think this is more of a false charity. The fact is, the coronavirus really isn't a big deal. And even if it was, what people don't seem to realize that nobody becomes sick unless God wills it. The mask thus connotes man's rebellion against God. The salvific powers of secular scientists and government have surpassed even those of God, and so we don't need God anymore. We can close the churches, and ditch the sacraments, and even cut off contact with our neighbor... so long as we hide behind the mask. It's literally become a type of the mark of the beast: nobody is permitted to buy or sell groceries unless he wears a mask.

Now ignoring all the coronavirus nonsense, the one thing that I'd say that would be "wrong" about wearing a mask is the simple fact that it's a bit odd to be wearing a surgical mask if you're not a surgeon. I believe the whole mask-wearing thing began in Japan several years back as a fashion craze, and in the past few years began gaining momentum even in America. But just as we don't wear trendy clothes to church such as to draw attention to ourselves, and just as we don't wear Halloween masks or masquerade masks to church, we also probably shouldn't be surgical wearing masks to church. Because it's a vain and inappropriate thing to do.

Though I suppose that wearing a plain surgical mask in the midst of an epi-pandemic might not be comparable to wearing a Halloween mask for no good reason whatsoever.

This is already happening where I live.  Some places won't let you go inside without a mask on.  And it is not just grocery stores.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 08:51:56 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 07:53:18 AM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 05:33:10 AM
Masks are gags, basically, to muzzle people into silence.  They are deeply sinister and all the more so because they are justified on the basis of consideration for others.

Lol, sorry, but I think a lot of the people on this thread are a little too paranoid.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Out to get you by making you wear half a mask?  :rofl:

Sorry, but as much as I agree with most of you in other areas I can't agree here.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Prayerful on May 20, 2020, 10:59:46 AM
I don't wear a mask anywhere, but if there was some rule about mask into Mass, I'd wear it going in. Pile of crap.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 11:30:57 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 08:51:56 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 07:53:18 AM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 05:33:10 AM
Masks are gags, basically, to muzzle people into silence.  They are deeply sinister and all the more so because they are justified on the basis of consideration for others.

Lol, sorry, but I think a lot of the people on this thread are a little too paranoid.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Out to get you by making you wear half a mask?  :rofl:

Sorry, but as much as I agree with most of you in other areas I can't agree here.

You don't have to agree.

Time will tell.

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/665107-just-because-you-re-paranoid-doesn-t-mean-they-aren-t-after-you

Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 11:39:19 AM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 11:30:57 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 08:51:56 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 07:53:18 AM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 05:33:10 AM
Masks are gags, basically, to muzzle people into silence.  They are deeply sinister and all the more so because they are justified on the basis of consideration for others.

Lol, sorry, but I think a lot of the people on this thread are a little too paranoid.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Out to get you by making you wear half a mask?  :rofl:

Sorry, but as much as I agree with most of you in other areas I can't agree here.

You don't have to agree.

Time will tell.

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/665107-just-because-you-re-paranoid-doesn-t-mean-they-aren-t-after-you

Quite true. But if people start making martyrs of themselves by refusing to wear half-masks etc... I am not going to support them. Of course, once Covid-19 etc... is over or if its all revealed to be a load of trash then that's another story.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 11:39:19 AM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 11:30:57 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 08:51:56 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 07:53:18 AM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 05:33:10 AM
Masks are gags, basically, to muzzle people into silence.  They are deeply sinister and all the more so because they are justified on the basis of consideration for others.

Lol, sorry, but I think a lot of the people on this thread are a little too paranoid.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Out to get you by making you wear half a mask?  :rofl:

Sorry, but as much as I agree with most of you in other areas I can't agree here.

You don't have to agree.

Time will tell.

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/665107-just-because-you-re-paranoid-doesn-t-mean-they-aren-t-after-you

Quite true. But if people start making martyrs of themselves by refusing to wear half-masks etc... I am not going to support them. Of course, once Covid-19 etc... is over or if its all revealed to be a load of trash then that's another story.

I'm not advocating a point blank refusal to wear masks.  Because there's always the possibility, albeit remote, that Covid-19 is a genuine pandemic and that the actions taken by governments across the world are sensible and appropriate.

But since the virus is of little or no threat to most people and at the same time presents an ideal opportunity to roll out the mass digital surveillance systems that the conspiracy theorists have been warning about for decades, I think it's eminently sensible, and not at all paranoid, to consider all possibilities.

There are pros and cons to wearing masks from a health point of view, but the push to encourage/force everyone to wear them is a huge red flag, IMO.  The propaganda is relentless.  They're becoming fashion items.  And worst of all, those who question mask wearing and protest against it are being labelled as selfish and disobedient.

If you see little problem with masks, what about contact tracking apps, immunity passports, vaccination identity cards?  What would be your red flag? 
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 02:03:07 PM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 12:09:11 PM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 11:39:19 AM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 11:30:57 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 08:51:56 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 07:53:18 AM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 05:33:10 AM
Masks are gags, basically, to muzzle people into silence.  They are deeply sinister and all the more so because they are justified on the basis of consideration for others.

Lol, sorry, but I think a lot of the people on this thread are a little too paranoid.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Out to get you by making you wear half a mask?  :rofl:

Sorry, but as much as I agree with most of you in other areas I can't agree here.

You don't have to agree.

Time will tell.

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/665107-just-because-you-re-paranoid-doesn-t-mean-they-aren-t-after-you

Quite true. But if people start making martyrs of themselves by refusing to wear half-masks etc... I am not going to support them. Of course, once Covid-19 etc... is over or if its all revealed to be a load of trash then that's another story.

I'm not advocating a point blank refusal to wear masks.  Because there's always the possibility, albeit remote, that Covid-19 is a genuine pandemic and that the actions taken by governments across the world are sensible and appropriate.

But since the virus is of little or no threat to most people and at the same time presents an ideal opportunity to roll out the mass digital surveillance systems that the conspiracy theorists have been warning about for decades, I think it's eminently sensible, and not at all paranoid, to consider all possibilities.

There are pros and cons to wearing masks from a health point of view, but the push to encourage/force everyone to wear them is a huge red flag, IMO.  The propaganda is relentless.  They're becoming fashion items.  And worst of all, those who question mask wearing and protest against it are being labelled as selfish and disobedient.

If you see little problem with masks, what about contact tracking apps, immunity passports, vaccination identity cards?  What would be your red flag?

Contact tracking apps are borderline, although lets be real the government can already track us if it wants, immunity passports would obviously be a no no. They would create second class citizens and be of dubious value. As for vaccination identity cards I am quite sure many countries already keep records of vaccinations, at least I remember having a list of my vaccinations somewhere years ago...
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Michael Wilson on May 20, 2020, 03:44:55 PM
Next thing you know they'll make us wear Mao suits and wave Little Red Books.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: abc123 on May 20, 2020, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 02:03:07 PM

Contact tracking apps are borderline, although lets be real the government can already track us if it wants, immunity passports would obviously be a no no. They would create second class citizens and be of dubious value. As for vaccination identity cards I am quite sure many countries already keep records of vaccinations, at least I remember having a list of my vaccinations somewhere years ago...

It's not a question of tracking you. It will then give the government the go-ahead to impose house arrest on you if you have come into contact with an "infected" person.

The reason we are in this position is because people are willing to put up with each new "minor inconvenience" or curtailing of our civil liberties since the government tells me it's for my own good. What I don't understand is why more people can't see it.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 07:17:47 PM
Quote from: abc123 on May 20, 2020, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 02:03:07 PM

Contact tracking apps are borderline, although lets be real the government can already track us if it wants, immunity passports would obviously be a no no. They would create second class citizens and be of dubious value. As for vaccination identity cards I am quite sure many countries already keep records of vaccinations, at least I remember having a list of my vaccinations somewhere years ago...

It's not a question of tracking you. It will then give the government the go-ahead to impose house arrest on you if you have come into contact with an "infected" person.

The reason we are in this position is because people are willing to put up with each new "minor inconvenience" or curtailing of our civil liberties since the government tells me it's for my own good. What I don't understand is why more people can't see it.

I somehow doubt it would come to that, but we'll see. I think there's a big difference between masks and contact tracing though, and an even bigger one between optional and mandatory tracing and quarantine via contact tracing. I think there's a risk of looking crazy if we fight over every little thing, hence why I don't object to masks in certain circumstances. Frankly, I also don't see a huge issue with contact tracing if that's the price to be paid to open the economy and live life normally. I wouldn't be happy with it forever but its the lesser of two evils and people are a bit naive if they think they are going to be able to stop it. Until people regain their reason, which is unlikely, all we are doing is an exercise in damage control.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: awkwardcustomer on May 21, 2020, 01:59:11 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 07:17:47 PM
Quote from: abc123 on May 20, 2020, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 02:03:07 PM

Contact tracking apps are borderline, although lets be real the government can already track us if it wants, immunity passports would obviously be a no no. They would create second class citizens and be of dubious value. As for vaccination identity cards I am quite sure many countries already keep records of vaccinations, at least I remember having a list of my vaccinations somewhere years ago...

It's not a question of tracking you. It will then give the government the go-ahead to impose house arrest on you if you have come into contact with an "infected" person.

The reason we are in this position is because people are willing to put up with each new "minor inconvenience" or curtailing of our civil liberties since the government tells me it's for my own good. What I don't understand is why more people can't see it.

I somehow doubt it would come to that, but we'll see. I think there's a big difference between masks and contact tracing though, and an even bigger one between optional and mandatory tracing and quarantine via contact tracing. I think there's a risk of looking crazy if we fight over every little thing, hence why I don't object to masks in certain circumstances. Frankly, I also don't see a huge issue with contact tracing if that's the price to be paid to open the economy and live life normally. I wouldn't be happy with it forever but its the lesser of two evils and people are a bit naive if they think they are going to be able to stop it. Until people regain their reason, which is unlikely, all we are doing is an exercise in damage control.

The lesser of two evils ......
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: trentcath on May 21, 2020, 06:37:43 AM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 21, 2020, 01:59:11 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 07:17:47 PM
Quote from: abc123 on May 20, 2020, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 02:03:07 PM

Contact tracking apps are borderline, although lets be real the government can already track us if it wants, immunity passports would obviously be a no no. They would create second class citizens and be of dubious value. As for vaccination identity cards I am quite sure many countries already keep records of vaccinations, at least I remember having a list of my vaccinations somewhere years ago...

It's not a question of tracking you. It will then give the government the go-ahead to impose house arrest on you if you have come into contact with an "infected" person.

The reason we are in this position is because people are willing to put up with each new "minor inconvenience" or curtailing of our civil liberties since the government tells me it's for my own good. What I don't understand is why more people can't see it.

I somehow doubt it would come to that, but we'll see. I think there's a big difference between masks and contact tracing though, and an even bigger one between optional and mandatory tracing and quarantine via contact tracing. I think there's a risk of looking crazy if we fight over every little thing, hence why I don't object to masks in certain circumstances. Frankly, I also don't see a huge issue with contact tracing if that's the price to be paid to open the economy and live life normally. I wouldn't be happy with it forever but its the lesser of two evils and people are a bit naive if they think they are going to be able to stop it. Until people regain their reason, which is unlikely, all we are doing is an exercise in damage control.

The lesser of two evils ......

Yes, and?
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: awkwardcustomer on May 21, 2020, 09:39:37 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 21, 2020, 06:37:43 AM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 21, 2020, 01:59:11 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 07:17:47 PM
Quote from: abc123 on May 20, 2020, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 02:03:07 PM

Contact tracking apps are borderline, although lets be real the government can already track us if it wants, immunity passports would obviously be a no no. They would create second class citizens and be of dubious value. As for vaccination identity cards I am quite sure many countries already keep records of vaccinations, at least I remember having a list of my vaccinations somewhere years ago...

It's not a question of tracking you. It will then give the government the go-ahead to impose house arrest on you if you have come into contact with an "infected" person.

The reason we are in this position is because people are willing to put up with each new "minor inconvenience" or curtailing of our civil liberties since the government tells me it's for my own good. What I don't understand is why more people can't see it.

I somehow doubt it would come to that, but we'll see. I think there's a big difference between masks and contact tracing though, and an even bigger one between optional and mandatory tracing and quarantine via contact tracing. I think there's a risk of looking crazy if we fight over every little thing, hence why I don't object to masks in certain circumstances. Frankly, I also don't see a huge issue with contact tracing if that's the price to be paid to open the economy and live life normally. I wouldn't be happy with it forever but its the lesser of two evils and people are a bit naive if they think they are going to be able to stop it. Until people regain their reason, which is unlikely, all we are doing is an exercise in damage control.

The lesser of two evils ......

Yes, and?

.... is still evil.

But you already knew this.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: abc123 on May 21, 2020, 11:03:14 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 07:17:47 PM
Quote from: abc123 on May 20, 2020, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 02:03:07 PM

Contact tracking apps are borderline, although lets be real the government can already track us if it wants, immunity passports would obviously be a no no. They would create second class citizens and be of dubious value. As for vaccination identity cards I am quite sure many countries already keep records of vaccinations, at least I remember having a list of my vaccinations somewhere years ago...

It's not a question of tracking you. It will then give the government the go-ahead to impose house arrest on you if you have come into contact with an "infected" person.

The reason we are in this position is because people are willing to put up with each new "minor inconvenience" or curtailing of our civil liberties since the government tells me it's for my own good. What I don't understand is why more people can't see it.

I somehow doubt it would come to that, but we'll see. I think there's a big difference between masks and contact tracing though, and an even bigger one between optional and mandatory tracing and quarantine via contact tracing. I think there's a risk of looking crazy if we fight over every little thing, hence why I don't object to masks in certain circumstances. Frankly, I also don't see a huge issue with contact tracing if that's the price to be paid to open the economy and live life normally. I wouldn't be happy with it forever but its the lesser of two evils and people are a bit naive if they think they are going to be able to stop it. Until people regain their reason, which is unlikely, all we are doing is an exercise in damage control.

http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/apple-s-ios-update-here-it-includes-coronavirus-contact-tracing-n1212016

Well that didn't take long. Amazing how quickly these things get developed: apps, vaccines, almost 2000 page "stimulus" bills. It's almost as if they were planning all of this.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Stu Cool on May 21, 2020, 12:44:28 PM
Quote from: abc123 on May 21, 2020, 11:03:14 AM
almost 2000 page "stimulus" bills.

To be fair, the way they format these it takes up a lot of space and there is a lot of white space.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: TradGranny on May 21, 2020, 01:06:58 PM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 20, 2020, 12:09:11 PM
If you see little problem with masks, what about contact tracking apps, immunity passports, vaccination identity cards?  What would be your red flag?


You bring up a great point. The enemies of God have craftily created a slippery slope. They know that most sheeple will not rebel at masks (which don't help.)


Most people, because they need to work to support their families will not rebel at either immunity passports or vaccination identity cards.


Most people will submit to contact tracing snoops coming into their homes to question them and their family member.


Most people will submit to mandatory testing.


Most people who have complied this far will probably also submit to mandatory shots.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: trentcath on May 21, 2020, 01:27:36 PM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 21, 2020, 09:39:37 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 21, 2020, 06:37:43 AM
Quote from: awkwardcustomer on May 21, 2020, 01:59:11 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 07:17:47 PM
Quote from: abc123 on May 20, 2020, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 02:03:07 PM

Contact tracking apps are borderline, although lets be real the government can already track us if it wants, immunity passports would obviously be a no no. They would create second class citizens and be of dubious value. As for vaccination identity cards I am quite sure many countries already keep records of vaccinations, at least I remember having a list of my vaccinations somewhere years ago...

It's not a question of tracking you. It will then give the government the go-ahead to impose house arrest on you if you have come into contact with an "infected" person.

The reason we are in this position is because people are willing to put up with each new "minor inconvenience" or curtailing of our civil liberties since the government tells me it's for my own good. What I don't understand is why more people can't see it.

I somehow doubt it would come to that, but we'll see. I think there's a big difference between masks and contact tracing though, and an even bigger one between optional and mandatory tracing and quarantine via contact tracing. I think there's a risk of looking crazy if we fight over every little thing, hence why I don't object to masks in certain circumstances. Frankly, I also don't see a huge issue with contact tracing if that's the price to be paid to open the economy and live life normally. I wouldn't be happy with it forever but its the lesser of two evils and people are a bit naive if they think they are going to be able to stop it. Until people regain their reason, which is unlikely, all we are doing is an exercise in damage control.

The lesser of two evils ......

Yes, and?

.... is still evil.

But you already knew this.
::)

We both know that "the lesser of two evils" is an English saying about two bad choices, it doesn't imply either is "evil" in the sense you are using it. 

In any event I do not see some sort of regulations regarding mask usage as a problem in current circumstances. Others are, of course, free to believe what they wish.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: trentcath on May 21, 2020, 01:28:56 PM
Quote from: abc123 on May 21, 2020, 11:03:14 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 07:17:47 PM
Quote from: abc123 on May 20, 2020, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 02:03:07 PM

Contact tracking apps are borderline, although lets be real the government can already track us if it wants, immunity passports would obviously be a no no. They would create second class citizens and be of dubious value. As for vaccination identity cards I am quite sure many countries already keep records of vaccinations, at least I remember having a list of my vaccinations somewhere years ago...

It's not a question of tracking you. It will then give the government the go-ahead to impose house arrest on you if you have come into contact with an "infected" person.

The reason we are in this position is because people are willing to put up with each new "minor inconvenience" or curtailing of our civil liberties since the government tells me it's for my own good. What I don't understand is why more people can't see it.

I somehow doubt it would come to that, but we'll see. I think there's a big difference between masks and contact tracing though, and an even bigger one between optional and mandatory tracing and quarantine via contact tracing. I think there's a risk of looking crazy if we fight over every little thing, hence why I don't object to masks in certain circumstances. Frankly, I also don't see a huge issue with contact tracing if that's the price to be paid to open the economy and live life normally. I wouldn't be happy with it forever but its the lesser of two evils and people are a bit naive if they think they are going to be able to stop it. Until people regain their reason, which is unlikely, all we are doing is an exercise in damage control.

http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/apple-s-ios-update-here-it-includes-coronavirus-contact-tracing-n1212016

Well that didn't take long. Amazing how quickly these things get developed: apps, vaccines, almost 2000 page "stimulus" bills. It's almost as if they were planning all of this.

A lot of copying and pasting and late nights/early mornings is a more likely explanation than a conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: abc123 on May 21, 2020, 02:05:34 PM
Quote from: trentcath on May 21, 2020, 01:28:56 PM
Quote from: abc123 on May 21, 2020, 11:03:14 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 07:17:47 PM
Quote from: abc123 on May 20, 2020, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 02:03:07 PM

Contact tracking apps are borderline, although lets be real the government can already track us if it wants, immunity passports would obviously be a no no. They would create second class citizens and be of dubious value. As for vaccination identity cards I am quite sure many countries already keep records of vaccinations, at least I remember having a list of my vaccinations somewhere years ago...

It's not a question of tracking you. It will then give the government the go-ahead to impose house arrest on you if you have come into contact with an "infected" person.

The reason we are in this position is because people are willing to put up with each new "minor inconvenience" or curtailing of our civil liberties since the government tells me it's for my own good. What I don't understand is why more people can't see it.

I somehow doubt it would come to that, but we'll see. I think there's a big difference between masks and contact tracing though, and an even bigger one between optional and mandatory tracing and quarantine via contact tracing. I think there's a risk of looking crazy if we fight over every little thing, hence why I don't object to masks in certain circumstances. Frankly, I also don't see a huge issue with contact tracing if that's the price to be paid to open the economy and live life normally. I wouldn't be happy with it forever but its the lesser of two evils and people are a bit naive if they think they are going to be able to stop it. Until people regain their reason, which is unlikely, all we are doing is an exercise in damage control.

http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/apple-s-ios-update-here-it-includes-coronavirus-contact-tracing-n1212016

Well that didn't take long. Amazing how quickly these things get developed: apps, vaccines, almost 2000 page "stimulus" bills. It's almost as if they were planning all of this.

A lot of copying and pasting and late nights/early mornings is a more likely explanation than a conspiracy theory.

Perhaps you could let me borrow one of your blue pills. Yelling into the void while people meekly march into their technocratic Brave New World is getting tiring.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Vetus Ordo on May 21, 2020, 05:51:42 PM
Quote from: Daniel on May 19, 2020, 05:10:25 AM
The fact is, the coronavirus really isn't a big deal.

You can't seriously posit that a global pandemic that forced governments that are natural enemies into the same type of measures isn't a "big deal."

QuoteAnd even if it was, what people don't seem to realize that nobody becomes sick unless God wills it.

Nothing that happens can happen without God willing it or ordaining it from all eternity. But the rest doesn't follow. Just because we recognize God's sovereignty over all creation doesn't mean we don't act upon illnesses, disasters, etc. We are to act prudentially as rational beings. When you cut your arm open after falling down, indeed God willed it. But it doesn't follow that you shouldn't stitch it up.

QuoteThe mask thus connotes man's rebellion against God.

Man's rebellion against God is signified by a multitude of actions that have nothing to do with the present crisis. Every time you willfully sin, you rebel against God.

The mask is a mere prudential measure in the face of a global pandemic.

QuoteThe salvific powers of secular scientists and government have surpassed even those of God, and so we don't need God anymore. We can close the churches, and ditch the sacraments, and even cut off contact with our neighbor... so long as we hide behind the mask. It's literally become a type of the mark of the beast: nobody is permitted to buy or sell groceries unless he wears a mask.

Does a disinfection of a surgery room surpass the powers of God too? Or using bandages when you get an open wound?
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: trentcath on May 21, 2020, 06:12:01 PM
Quote from: abc123 on May 21, 2020, 02:05:34 PM
Quote from: trentcath on May 21, 2020, 01:28:56 PM
Quote from: abc123 on May 21, 2020, 11:03:14 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 07:17:47 PM
Quote from: abc123 on May 20, 2020, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 02:03:07 PM

Contact tracking apps are borderline, although lets be real the government can already track us if it wants, immunity passports would obviously be a no no. They would create second class citizens and be of dubious value. As for vaccination identity cards I am quite sure many countries already keep records of vaccinations, at least I remember having a list of my vaccinations somewhere years ago...

It's not a question of tracking you. It will then give the government the go-ahead to impose house arrest on you if you have come into contact with an "infected" person.

The reason we are in this position is because people are willing to put up with each new "minor inconvenience" or curtailing of our civil liberties since the government tells me it's for my own good. What I don't understand is why more people can't see it.

I somehow doubt it would come to that, but we'll see. I think there's a big difference between masks and contact tracing though, and an even bigger one between optional and mandatory tracing and quarantine via contact tracing. I think there's a risk of looking crazy if we fight over every little thing, hence why I don't object to masks in certain circumstances. Frankly, I also don't see a huge issue with contact tracing if that's the price to be paid to open the economy and live life normally. I wouldn't be happy with it forever but its the lesser of two evils and people are a bit naive if they think they are going to be able to stop it. Until people regain their reason, which is unlikely, all we are doing is an exercise in damage control.

http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/apple-s-ios-update-here-it-includes-coronavirus-contact-tracing-n1212016

Well that didn't take long. Amazing how quickly these things get developed: apps, vaccines, almost 2000 page "stimulus" bills. It's almost as if they were planning all of this.

A lot of copying and pasting and late nights/early mornings is a more likely explanation than a conspiracy theory.

Perhaps you could let me borrow one of your blue pills. Yelling into the void while people meekly march into their technocratic Brave New World is getting tiring.

And perhaps you could lend me some tinfoil so I can make my own hat?  ;)
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: TradGranny on May 23, 2020, 12:52:38 PM
Quote from: trentcath on May 21, 2020, 01:28:56 PM

A lot of copying and pasting and late nights/early mornings is a more likely explanation than a conspiracy theory.



This is from 2016
Federal Register (link below)

3. §70.6 Apprehension and Detention of Persons With Quarantinable Communicable Diseases

Through this NPRM, HHS/CDC has proposed to change the text of this provision.

We have modified "infected with a quarantinable communicable disease" to clarify, consistent with the statute's requirements, that the individual must be in the "qualifying stage" of a quarantinable communicable disease, which we also define. We did this to better align our regulations with the Public Health Service Act which authorizes the "apprehension and examination of any individual reasonably believed to be infected with a [quarantinable communicable] disease

. . .
4. §70.10 Public Health Prevention Measures To Detect Communicable Disease
. . . During a public health risk assessment, if facts or circumstances are discovered that give rise to a reasonable belief that the individual is infected, as defined under this NPRM, with a quarantinable communicable disease in its qualifying stage, CDC may authorize the quarantine, isolation, or conditional release of the individual. Similarly, an individual's refusal to be screened may result in quarantine, isolation, or conditional release, but only if sufficient facts and circumstances otherwise exist giving rise to a reasonable belief that the individual is infected with a quarantinable communicable disease in its qualifying stage.

.https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2016/08/15/2016-18103/control-of-communicable-diseases.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: King Wenceslas on May 24, 2020, 09:44:13 AM
Quote from: TradGranny on May 23, 2020, 12:52:38 PM
Quote from: trentcath on May 21, 2020, 01:28:56 PM

A lot of copying and pasting and late nights/early mornings is a more likely explanation than a conspiracy theory.



This is from 2016
Federal Register (link below)

3. §70.6 Apprehension and Detention of Persons With Quarantinable Communicable Diseases

Through this NPRM, HHS/CDC has proposed to change the text of this provision.

We have modified "infected with a quarantinable communicable disease" to clarify, consistent with the statute's requirements, that the individual must be in the "qualifying stage" of a quarantinable communicable disease, which we also define. We did this to better align our regulations with the Public Health Service Act which authorizes the "apprehension and examination of any individual reasonably believed to be infected with a [quarantinable communicable] disease

. . .
4. §70.10 Public Health Prevention Measures To Detect Communicable Disease
. . . During a public health risk assessment, if facts or circumstances are discovered that give rise to a reasonable belief that the individual is infected, as defined under this NPRM, with a quarantinable communicable disease in its qualifying stage, CDC may authorize the quarantine, isolation, or conditional release of the individual. Similarly, an individual's refusal to be screened may result in quarantine, isolation, or conditional release, but only if sufficient facts and circumstances otherwise exist giving rise to a reasonable belief that the individual is infected with a quarantinable communicable disease in its qualifying stage.

.https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2016/08/15/2016-18103/control-of-communicable-diseases.

Think of Typhoid Mary. Would anyone here like to see another one of her running around?
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: TradGranny on May 30, 2020, 01:03:43 PM

[/quote]
Think of Typhoid Mary. Would anyone here like to see another one of her running around?
[/quote]

You give us a perfect example of an emotional image designed to short-circuit the intellect and scare the population into submission to the satanic NWO.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: lauermar on June 02, 2020, 06:47:25 AM
I have a classmate friend with COPD who is able to go about her business wearing her custom fitted DME respirator mask. She is on Medicare and it was approved. If COPD patients can shop for groceries at big box stores they can go to mass if they want. In fact I believe mass is safer.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: lauermar on June 09, 2020, 05:54:39 AM
Speaking of masks---it isn't a rebellion against God per se, it is merely stupid, ineffective and a waste of time for the general public. When I went to nursing school I studied microbiology and infection control. If you take a grain of salt and cut it into 100,000 pieces, that's how small viruses are. They hang in the air long after those large droplets from speaking, sneezing and coughing fall to the floor.

I've been telling others that Covid is so small it can easily pass through non-professional  masks, coffee or other filters. Professional N95 masks work for a limited time and can't be reused. Only custom fit medical grade DME respirators offer protection and are best worn by lung patients and at-risk persons working in areas of concentrated exposure. The general public does not need to wear masks. Here is a scientific article that backs that up.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: MaximGun on January 19, 2022, 01:44:17 AM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 07:17:47 PM
Quote from: abc123 on May 20, 2020, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: trentcath on May 20, 2020, 02:03:07 PM

Contact tracking apps are borderline, although lets be real the government can already track us if it wants, immunity passports would obviously be a no no. They would create second class citizens and be of dubious value. As for vaccination identity cards I am quite sure many countries already keep records of vaccinations, at least I remember having a list of my vaccinations somewhere years ago...

It's not a question of tracking you. It will then give the government the go-ahead to impose house arrest on you if you have come into contact with an "infected" person.

The reason we are in this position is because people are willing to put up with each new "minor inconvenience" or curtailing of our civil liberties since the government tells me it's for my own good. What I don't understand is why more people can't see it.

I somehow doubt it would come to that, but we'll see. I think there's a big difference between masks and contact tracing though, and an even bigger one between optional and mandatory tracing and quarantine via contact tracing. I think there's a risk of looking crazy if we fight over every little thing, hence why I don't object to masks in certain circumstances. Frankly, I also don't see a huge issue with contact tracing if that's the price to be paid to open the economy and live life normally. I wouldn't be happy with it forever but its the lesser of two evils and people are a bit naive if they think they are going to be able to stop it. Until people regain their reason, which is unlikely, all we are doing is an exercise in damage control.

TrentCath.  Care to give us an update on your thinking now?
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez on January 19, 2022, 07:04:51 AM
Quote from: lauermar on June 09, 2020, 05:54:39 AM
Speaking of masks---it isn't a rebellion against God per se, it is merely stupid, ineffective and a waste of time for the general public. When I went to nursing school I studied microbiology and infection control. If you take a grain of salt and cut it into 100,000 pieces, that's how small viruses are. They hang in the air long after those large droplets from speaking, sneezing and coughing fall to the floor.

I've been telling others that Covid is so small it can easily pass through non-professional  masks, coffee or other filters. Professional N95 masks work for a limited time and can't be reused. Only custom fit medical grade DME respirators offer protection and are best worn by lung patients and at-risk persons working in areas of concentrated exposure. The general public does not need to wear masks. Here is a scientific article that backs that up.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data

Oh boy
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Southern Ascetic on January 19, 2022, 08:33:05 AM
Everyone who wears a mask continues to perpetuate the fear propaganda put out by the government and MSM over this completely absurd scam. Stop complying with this nonsense. There is plenty of evidence that masks do absolutely nothing to prevent disease.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: The Curt Jester on January 19, 2022, 08:36:30 AM
Quote from: Ascetik on January 19, 2022, 08:33:05 AM
Everyone who wears a mask continues to perpetuate the fear propaganda put out by the government and MSM over this completely absurd scam. Stop complying with this nonsense. There is plenty of evidence that masks do absolutely nothing to prevent disease.

Agree.  People who comply prolong it for everybody.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: james03 on January 19, 2022, 08:37:01 AM
This thread was created before the COVID subforum was created.  I recommend letting it die.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Xavier on January 19, 2022, 09:20:54 AM
Today, I got fined 200 Rs for not wearing a mask. I usually don't wear masks much, but then decided it wasn't worth it. It's a small thing and not worth fighting about in my opinion, provided they don't go to undue limits in taking away our freedom. I bought a 10 Rs mask in the nearby shop and wore it and after that the police said nothing. In my opinion, we can comply with the government whenever the government is not asking us to sin. If the government asked me something against my Faith, I would absolutely refuse, even if it meant persecution. But a small mask thing is not a big deal imho, as long as people are free in other respects, and there is no danger of tyranny.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: MaximGun on January 19, 2022, 09:27:02 AM
Masks are now dropped in the UK.  No mandate.

Proud to say I never wore one.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez on January 19, 2022, 09:46:05 AM
Quote from: MaximGun on January 19, 2022, 09:27:02 AM
Masks are now dropped in the UK.  No mandate.

Proud to say I never wore one.

We wore N95 masks in March and April 2020.  We rarely left the house, anyway.  We even had our groceries delivered by a service and sanitized them before putting them away.  The only time we went out was to buy gasoline and go to my pregnant wife's medical checkups.

Our entire diocese was shut down until Ascension Thursday, so we weren't even going to Mass.  We watched livestreamed Mass on Facebook.  We still went to confession for First Saturdays, but that was the only time we went out.  Every time we had to go out, after we got home, we immediately changed our clothing and washed our hands and any other skin that had touched anything.

We thought tHe ViRuS was serious because our employers, friends, and family were all taking it very seriously, and initial speculation guesstimated that the fatality rate might be as high as that of SARS 1.

What is the purpose of my writing this?

1. Our actions might have been appropriate if tHe ViRuS had a true IFR in the 10% range where some people initially estimated it.  But, for a virus with a 0.3% (or lower) IFR, these actions are buffoonery.

2. Some people on this forum probably aren't happy with my reluctance to mask or get the jab.  I hope they will understand that I'm not unreasonable:  I did mask when I thought the virus was serious, and I would jab if the jabs were (1) not abortion-tainted (they are), (2) effective (they're not), and (3) side-effect free (hoo boy).

3. Kudos to everyone who knew from the beginning and didn't spend Q2 2020 in fear.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: MaximGun on January 19, 2022, 10:31:51 AM
Every time we had to go out, after we got home, we immediately changed our clothing and washed our hands and any other skin that had touched anything.

I have 2 neighbours that do this.

To be fair they are in their 60s and she is ill.  But I did point out to them that the virus is airborne not transmitted on surfaces.

They asked me about the vaccines.  They have been tripled as of a month ago.  I suggested the skipped it for the summertime and see what transpires next winter.  Put it off until they think they might need it.  They don't work so they can easily lock themselves down for 2 weeks and not see anyone if a new "variant" emerges.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: TerrorDæmonum on January 19, 2022, 03:23:40 PM
Quote from: The Curt Jester on January 19, 2022, 08:36:30 AM
Agree.  People who comply prolong it for everybody.
We didn't comply and it had no bearing on the longevity of the mandates.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: diaduit on January 19, 2022, 03:37:59 PM
Quote from: ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez on January 19, 2022, 09:46:05 AM
Quote from: MaximGun on January 19, 2022, 09:27:02 AM
Masks are now dropped in the UK.  No mandate.

Proud to say I never wore one.

We wore N95 masks in March and April 2020.  We rarely left the house, anyway.  We even had our groceries delivered by a service and sanitized them before putting them away.  The only time we went out was to buy gasoline and go to my pregnant wife's medical checkups.

Our entire diocese was shut down until Ascension Thursday, so we weren't even going to Mass.  We watched livestreamed Mass on Facebook.  We still went to confession for First Saturdays, but that was the only time we went out.  Every time we had to go out, after we got home, we immediately changed our clothing and washed our hands and any other skin that had touched anything.

We thought tHe ViRuS was serious because our employers, friends, and family were all taking it very seriously, and initial speculation guesstimated that the fatality rate might be as high as that of SARS 1.

What is the purpose of my writing this?

1. Our actions might have been appropriate if tHe ViRuS had a true IFR in the 10% range where some people initially estimated it.  But, for a virus with a 0.3% (or lower) IFR, these actions are buffoonery.

2. Some people on this forum probably aren't happy with my reluctance to mask or get the jab.  I hope they will understand that I'm not unreasonable:  I did mask when I thought the virus was serious, and I would jab if the jabs were (1) not abortion-tainted (they are), (2) effective (they're not), and (3) side-effect free (hoo boy).

3. Kudos to everyone who knew from the beginning and didn't spend Q2 2020 in fear.

I was the exact same in my house and the funny thing was I wore masks when no one was wearing them i.e  I decided for myself and wasn't waiting for the government to tell me to do it albeit I was wrong :)

Two weeks into our lockdown, between posts here (thank you Miriam and James) and Amazing polly then seeing the most bizarre almost poolside like atmosphere  with doctors and nurses outside my local hospital I realised it was BS.  Reality did not  correlate with what I was told, the square did not fit the circle.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: andy on January 19, 2022, 03:44:54 PM
I have never had a mask on me in the church (even when passively attending NO a few times in that period of time). Resisted to wear one in public places unless was forced to do so in order to get common goods. Was forced by airline companies on many occasions though.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: james03 on January 19, 2022, 04:24:25 PM
QuoteMasks are now dropped in the UK.  No mandate.

Maybe Partygate resulted in a positive side benefit?
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Prayerful on January 19, 2022, 05:30:38 PM
Almost no one wears it at the diocesan TLM. The sacristan wears one (he thinks the matter nonsense) but the Abp does make COVID compliance of some sort a mark of obedience. No rows partitioned off either. And holy water stoops filled. Better than any other diocesan church which has hand sanitiser near an empty stoop, perhaps a new sacramental of the hygiene god. The SSPX chapel was wholly clear of the COVID junk, as far as I can tell.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Gardener on January 19, 2022, 06:28:18 PM
I've never worn a mask at Mass. I only wear one into and out of the building at work, and then take it off at my desk.

My favorite thing is at work we had a guy who would wear a mask and gloves everywhere. I once saw him lick his gloved finger to turn a sheet of paper that was being stubborn. The mind boggles.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Elizabeth.2 on January 19, 2022, 06:50:25 PM
Quote from: andy on January 19, 2022, 03:44:54 PM
I have never had a mask on me in the church (even when passively attending NO a few times in that period of time). Resisted to wear one in public places unless was forced to do so in order to get common goods. Was forced by airline companies on many occasions though.
same same
May our Holy Guardian Angels be our guide.

PS I didn't wear a mask for a long time at all, because in DC nobody was even outside for weeks. Nobody saw me.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Prayerful on January 19, 2022, 07:25:16 PM
Quote from: Gardener on January 19, 2022, 06:28:18 PM
I've never worn a mask at Mass. I only wear one into and out of the building at work, and then take it off at my desk.

My favorite thing is at work we had a guy who would wear a mask and gloves everywhere. I once saw him lick his gloved finger to turn a sheet of paper that was being stubborn. The mind boggles.

Now in fairness there are a portion of people who have immune system issues, but likely it was another one turned into a five mask fruit by the propaganda.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Reader on January 19, 2022, 08:14:22 PM
Quote from: Gardener on January 19, 2022, 06:28:18 PM
I've never worn a mask at Mass. I only wear one into and out of the building at work, and then take it off at my desk.

My favorite thing is at work we had a guy who would wear a mask and gloves everywhere. I once saw him lick his gloved finger to turn a sheet of paper that was being stubborn. The mind boggles.

That reminded me of a young woman (early 20s) who sat in the cube next to me at work. She would blow on her cup of coffee to cool it before each sip..... with the sippy cup lid still on.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Markus on January 20, 2022, 08:19:59 PM
Quote from: Pietrelcina on May 18, 2020, 10:39:26 PM
Would it be considered wrong for lay people to wear masks during Mass?

Yes. I believe it is gravely sinful.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: diaduit on January 21, 2022, 01:18:39 PM
I'm not sure but I know quite a few trads who think it is sacrilegious.  I do wonder does it contravene 'decorum'.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: andy on January 21, 2022, 02:21:43 PM
Quote from: diaduit on January 21, 2022, 01:18:39 PM
I'm not sure but I know quite a few trads who think it is sacrilegious.  I do wonder does it contravene 'decorum'.

It is against the Reason.
Title: Re: Wearing Masks at Mass
Post by: Elizabeth.2 on January 21, 2022, 04:05:06 PM
Quote from: Markus on January 20, 2022, 08:19:59 PM
Quote from: Pietrelcina on May 18, 2020, 10:39:26 PM
Would it be considered wrong for lay people to wear masks during Mass?

Yes. I believe it is gravely sinful.
I wouldn't dare.