How to be poor?

[Christe Eleison]

This titular question comes from plain ignorance. It doesn't come from malice or joking. I'm genuinely curious because, due to the vaccine mandates by the pudding eating Commander in Thief, this may be more reality than mental exercise in the near future... the very, very near future.

Background: I've done the poor thing before (well, I think so at least?) but I was single, fresh out of the Army, and my VA/Army retirement was able to pay for a very crappy studio apt ($500/mo at the time), basic food (maybe $200/mo), and I could do odd jobs when and how I wanted; in short, I was poor but not in a state of manic desperation. I didn't have to do food kitchens or contemplate crime. I somehow lived joyfully and very simply on something around <20k a year in the higher cost of living location of Colorado Springs. I even paid off a vehicle by scrimping and saving. I'd randomly force myself to go to bed hungry sometimes to "practice" in case it got worse, though I thought worse meant bad and at the time I thought I had it pretty darn good (which I did, compared to many). But I have no idea how to be that level of poor with kids, a 2021 mortgage, or in an environment that's not permissive to a rapidly unpopular mode of thinking with very little upward or even lateral mobility. It was a different time.

So tell me... if you have been, are, or are intimately connected with assisting or interacting with poor folks in the context of family and much higher cost of living: how do you, or they, do it? I want honest answers. If you are embarrassed by the reality, please PM me.

Tips?

Tricks?

What sort of things were lines in the sand for you and how did you mitigate those perceived needs and the need for crossing the line?

Does the current environment change how you might approach things?

Feel free to add to things I might not have asked.

Thanks.

GARDENER,

From what I understand, it seems that when the mandates go into effect,
you can elect to either get a religious, conscience or medical exemption.

Also, if the above does not work, please find out if they will pay for the weekly
testing that the President mentioned.

I believe that without exemptions, you may get tested weekly, find out if your employer will pay for it.

If not, then look into what is the fee for testing in your area. Call around, because
I called around at one point, and the testing varied from $65 all the way to $115.
I was able to do the one where they just place a q-tip at the opening of 1 nostril.
Not painful at all.
At the beg, according to the lady they were doing the one where they stick that
long q-tip all the way up (which can be a bit painful) 
I have also heard that there is a spit in a cup test. I would do the spit one, for safety!

Now, here is the deal, which ever test you go for, make sure you ask the individual to
to change their gloves in FRONT of you, not behind some curtain.
I begged the lady in a nice way & explained that a nurse told me that some of the infections were occurring due to when they test an individual & they gag,
well that falls back on their glove & can INFECT the next patient. Ask for them to
CHANGE their gloves!!

If you are the one that has to pay for the test, and it is $65 per week or every 2 weeks, that still is cheaper compared to the cost that you would have to pay for COBRA insurance to cover your family while you obtain another job.
Call up the COBRA people ask them what the cost of COBRA insurance
is lets say for a family of 5 or 6 (or whatever the number is )
If COBRA coverage is lets say $500 per month, you are better off paying for
the weekly testing, and at least still have an income.

The testing will set you back approx. $260 per month, and you STILL HAVE A JOB!
Hopefully with other benefits like life insurance, dental, 401 K, etc.
And you are able to look around for another job, that you might be
able to do from home.

The SETBACK of $260 or so can be taken care by the other recommendations
that I wrote in previous posts, selling jams, cookies, cakes, beads, pies at several farmers markets. You could also ask the largest Novus Ordo parishes in your area (speak with the priest there) to set up a table with your goodies to sell before, during & after their Saturday, Vigil Mass in the afternoon. That way you are NOT
working on Sunday, but you are getting a nice crowd!!
Sometimes they even have weddings on Saturdays, you can also benefit from that crowd as well.

I have always seen vendors in the parking lots of parishes on the West Coast,
selling corn on the cob, hot dogs, sweet empanadas/turnovers (filled with apples, berries, etc.) pretzels, cookies, donuts, pies, breads, etc.
And a ton of people buy from these vendors. 

The monthly testing fee can also be taken care of by you getting an
additional gig online, tutoring, etc. Every bit helps!

In addition, due to what is going, people are starting to increase their CANNING, preserving foods in jars, etc.
Buying A LOT of berries, tomatoes, on special & CAN IT.

The thing is you need to buy canning supplies now.

Try to get some from garage sales, farmers markets, craigslist, dollar stores, etc.
You need to buy the jars, lids, rings to seal the jars.

People are starting to prep, hoard stuff, because they are seeing the
increase in the cost of living just this year! INFLATION is crazy!!

And you need these jars also, if your wife is going to make jams,
jellies, preserves, etc. To sell at the farmers markets, churches, etc.!

Again, DO NOT QUIT, ask for exemptions, if that does not work,
you are entitled to get the option to test weekly!
Use that time also to find another job that you can do from home.

There are currently 27 Governors & several Attorney Generals trying to fight
this thing! Some companies are also trying to fight it!
Who knows, maybe if they get enough pushback, this mandate can be
cancelled at some point!

God Bless!

[Christe Eleison]

More in the link below:

COBRA LINK:

https://www.cobrainsurance.com/colorado-cobra-insurance/

"The Consolidated Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1985 (COBRA) allows employees and their covered dependents to continue group health coverage if that insurance would end. The law requires that employers with 20 or more workers (during 50% of business days) offer a continuation of health insurance benefits if those benefits would end. Businesses must provide workers with an election of COBRA notice within 45 days of their group health plan ending. Qualified beneficiaries have 60 days to elect COBRA or formerly waive their right."

"Colorado Has A Mini-COBRA Law
Similar to the federal law, the state has Title 10 Insurance Health Care Coverage law that provides workers with continuation of employer-sponsored health benefits. The difference is that it also requires small businesses with 19 or fewer employees to provide the same health benefits to workers that they had while employed.

Depending on your circumstance, you may choose the state rights over federal.

Key Differences Between Federal COBRA and Colorado's Title 10"

[ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez]

Call up the COBRA people ask them what the cost of COBRA insurance
is lets say for a family of 5 or 6 (or whatever the number is )
If COBRA coverage is lets say $500 per month, you are better off paying for
the weekly testing, and at least still have an income.

COBRA coverage costs vary depending on the quality and comprehensiveness of your employer's health insurance plan.

The last few times I quit a job and was offered COBRA, the monthly premium would have been somewhere around $2,000/month for our family.

[Christe Eleison]

Call up the COBRA people ask them what the cost of COBRA insurance
is lets say for a family of 5 or 6 (or whatever the number is )
If COBRA coverage is lets say $500 per month, you are better off paying for
the weekly testing, and at least still have an income.

COBRA coverage costs vary depending on the quality and comprehensiveness of your employer's health insurance plan.

The last few times I quit a job and was offered COBRA, the monthly premium would have been somewhere around $2,000/month for our family.

WOW!!

Thanks, CHAIRMAN,

So, according to your figures, it is CHEAPER & better to just pay for the weekly testing, and STILL HAVE A JOB!!

The setback is a lot LESS to pay for the weekly testing that according
to the President, we are entitled to!!

God Bless!

[Christe Eleison]

GARDENER,

Mr FRANK, started this thread, please check it out.

Here is the letter he posted:

+Athanasius Schneider's letter

Today, I greet all of those workers who at this very hour who are being forced to choose between keeping their job and getting the Covid-19 vaccine or being fired for not getting the vaccine.

Through this brief letter I extend some encouragement in your trials. The Confraternity of Our Lady of Fatima can also offer a religious exemption.

Some of you have already paid the price for the truth about the Covid-19 vaccine and its causal link to abortion.

I am deeply touched by the witness of a lady in the U.S. who writes:

"Today was my last day of packing up the remainder of my stuff. As I would not take the vaccine, I was told to leave last Friday. They called over and asked me to tidy up my desk and said that today would be my last day. My boss is hoping that I will cave in, get vaccinated, and come back. I am extremely sad."

I am moved by the witness of this woman. I would say to her: "Today you pack your things from your place of work, and while you pack, your treasure is being transferred to the room that Jesus has already prepared for you in the Kingdom of Heaven."

There are thousands and thousands of Catholics like her who have the courage to choose Christ and who will not throw a pinch of incense to Caesar, just like the very first Catholics of old.

I encourage all of you to hold fast to your conviction and to your faithfulness to Christ.

The sufferings and the losses that you will have to endure are tiny when compared to the
reward that God prepared for you in heaven.

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this time are not worthy to be compared with the glory to come, that shall be revealed in us." Romans 8:18

I urge you to continue on this path that you have chosen of witnessing to the truth that unborn life is sacred and that the trafficking of fetal body parts is an evil industry that cries out to Almighty God for His justice!

As you seek His Kingdom, first and above all, believe that you will be provided for.

Jesus and Mary will open up new ways to provide for your families. I also exhort and encourage the lay faithful of means to step in and help your fellow Catholics to find new meaningful work.

My dear brothers and sisters, these are the prices that we knew we always had to pay to be faithful to Jesus Christ.

And now at this very hour the payment is being required and so we must pray that we will pass the test and be faithful to the Lord Jesus. I give all of you God's abundant blessing!

+Athanasius Schneider
Auxiliary bishop of Astana, Kazakhstan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MAXIMGUN, posted the following:

"I hope the lady got a letter from the firm saying no jab, no job.  Because then she can sue them later.'

[Christe Eleison]

Gardener,

When it comes to insurance, if you leave your place of employment,
you have COBRA, which seems pretty steep, and there is a telephone number in the link I provided for COBRA alternatives (that seem cheaper).

I believe that you are better off staying with your employer,
testing weekly, instead of later having to get insurance through COBRA or the other options.
The weekly fee is much lower.

In addition, if you stay in the state that you are in, you could also advertise
in your Church bulletin, as well as in the other Catholic bulletins, I think
you have at least 2 FSSP and maybe an SSPX, not sure.

Advertise to rent to an older LADY, you can do it as a boarding
type thing, where you provide her with meals as well. You just
need to figure out what the cost would be in your area, and to
see if it may help you. With & without meals.

If you do not want to lose your privacy, you could also find out if it is
legal to turn your garage into a small efficiency, with a private entrance,
small kitchenette, bathroom. Or a small addition to the actual house.
Find out what are the costs to take out a small loan, or maybe
do an equity line on the house (faster & maybe cheaper) to build this addition. 

"A home equity line of credit is a type of second mortgage that allows homeowners to borrow money against the equity they have in their home and receive that money as a line of credit. Borrowers can use HELOC funds for a variety of purposes, including home improvements, education and the consolidation of high-interest credit card debt."

The idea is to help you generate income to compensate for the weekly testing fee.
And even if the mandates stop at one point, the additional income does not hurt.

God Bless!

[Obrien]

I am so incredibly impressed by the ideas that were already shared here- such creativity!

Some things that come to mind:

Meat is a luxury. You can buy a 2 lb bag of beans and feed a large family dinner on it for less than $2.
Make ALL meals at home. Your meals could become very bland and monotonous but then whenever you have something that is slightly different it will feel like a luxury.

Food banks are wonderful for those who really need them. That food is going to go to
waste anyhow. Grocery stores have to clear out items daily especially things like already cut fruit, veg and deli items.

Christmas does not need to be a present fest. Fresh pencils, new toothbrushes and new underwear (this can be discreetly tucked under each child's pillow for them to find without the jeers of annoying brothers  ) and candy are wonderful Christmas presents.

Birthdays are simply celebrated with a cake.

Encourage your children to make items to sell for Christmas. Look up "sellable items kids can make". People will buy them if they are presented properly.

You can always encourage older boys to pull weeds in a neighbor's front yard. It is a good idea for children to learn to help support the family too. They keep most of the earnings but it is amazing what a little extra can do for the family budget.

You can find items in bulk trash pick up, clean it up, and resell it on offerup. Yep, it is definitely doable.

Look for your own hidden talents or that of your spouse's to generate extra income. Tutoring, music lessons, car detailing (this can be done with a shop vac or even a regular vacuum) babysitting, housekeeping, proof reading, baking cakes and breads, decorating for birthday parties (people do hire for this), hanging Christmas lights.

Downsize- smaller homes equal less heating and cooling. Smaller home = less stuff. Stuff you can't buy and don't need.

Take a look around your house and note all the unnecessary stuff. It came from somewhere. It came from our purchases of stuff we really didn't need. Maybe sell some of it- not anything sentimental, of course.

Don't shrink away from the idea of multi generational homes.

And remember homeschooling is cheap. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.  Keep your kids away from public school.

Trust in God.

And even though I read through the ideas of others I am sure I listed redundant proposals. 

[The Curt Jester]

Other ideas:

Look into a healthshare instead of insurance.  It's likely much cheaper.

Make your own soap.

Two local stores will package "cheese ends" for a much lower price.  You might not be able to pick the cheese you want, but $2/lb is a lot cheaper than what it is if you buy the brick.  That said, one store around here often has sales on 6lb bricks of cheese and when they do, we buy a lot and freeze it.

Some stores have the same thing with "meat ends".  It's generally the only time I buy deli meats because it is again $2/lb.

If you have little kids, it's economical to use second hand sheets (or larger clothes) for materials to make clothing for them.  It's likely a lot cheaper than purchasing new cloth.

If you have a neighbor you trust, you could share the cost of wireless internet.  $30/month is a whole lot better than $60/month.

Purchase large roasts at cheaper prices.  One of my local stores often puts a significant markdown on meats with a sticker "eat or freeze today".  We can often get good cuts of meat for rock-bottom pricing.

[Christe Eleison]

Practice now.

Try to cut back by 100 dollars per week.  Think longterm and shorterm.

What are your biggest expenses.  When my husband lost his business we were on social welfare while he retrained.  In Ireland SW is not too bad.  So I'll pm you probably tomorrow, what our costs were and how I saved.  I literally looked at every penny and didn't really think the big stuff until I had to.

Mortgage, could you sell your house and buy a site and put in a nice mobile home? Could you half your mortgage doing this?
Can you do interest only mortgage until you get back on your feet?
Can you move in with parents and rent out your home until you get back on your feet.
Do you know an elderly relative that needs looking after and you can live rent free to provide company and help?

Food, only cook dishes that do two to three days.  So lots of stews, bologneses, curries and pack with veg so that you don't miss the smaller portions of meat.  Can you get some chickens for your own eggs and they are wonderful for eating up scraps so you save on the cost of waste.
Look into homemade receipes for deodorants, laundry powder, floor cleaners etc.
Be merciless on tv, phone and broadband expenses.

Pull out excess stuff from around the house and sell on second hand platforms.  I got rid of a lot of stuff and probably covered our private health insurance for that year.
Order your food shopping online for delivery, that way you don't pick up stuff you don't need and you save on fuel for the car. Mine also twice year gives vouchers which I can boost to double value and use against my electricity bill.

Never use the dryer for clothes.  Go back to clothes line.

Try to pay bills in full and not monthly.  So for example car insurance...paying monthly means there is money leaving account once a month, well if you do this for house insurance, health insurance etc....something is always leaving your account. If you can pay in advance while you have money now, I would do that and take that headache out of the way. When your managing your monthly budget then, you're not trying to work around different payment schedules hitting the account.

Let the kids know so they can work with you.

Keep one luxury.  Ours was our holiday mobile in Co Clare which costs us in site fees every year.  I just couldn't part with it. Also I didn't let my health insurance go but I did go to a basic basic plan.

When is the mandate in ....can you save like mad now to tie you over a couple of months?

Do you have a private pension, can you borrow on the strength of that and sure you never know, apocalypse and all that and being locked out of the economy might have benefits  .

I'll send you my expenses that year and you can factor in USA cost of living etc to see if you can get anything out of it.  However I don't think USA social welfare is as good as here.

Dear DIADUIT,

Thanks so much for this kind & detailed post!
I am sure that it will be helpful to a lot of people!

God Bless you!

[Christe Eleison]

I am so incredibly impressed by the ideas that were already shared here- such creativity!

Some things that come to mind:

Meat is a luxury. You can buy a 2 lb bag of beans and feed a large family dinner on it for less than $2.
Make ALL meals at home. Your meals could become very bland and monotonous but then whenever you have something that is slightly different it will feel like a luxury.

Food banks are wonderful for those who really need them. That food is going to go to
waste anyhow. Grocery stores have to clear out items daily especially things like already cut fruit, veg and deli items.

Christmas does not need to be a present fest. Fresh pencils, new toothbrushes and new underwear (this can be discreetly tucked under each child's pillow for them to find without the jeers of annoying brothers  ) and candy are wonderful Christmas presents.

Birthdays are simply celebrated with a cake.

Encourage your children to make items to sell for Christmas. Look up "sellable items kids can make". People will buy them if they are presented properly.

You can always encourage older boys to pull weeds in a neighbor's front yard. It is a good idea for children to learn to help support the family too. They keep most of the earnings but it is amazing what a little extra can do for the family budget.

You can find items in bulk trash pick up, clean it up, and resell it on offerup. Yep, it is definitely doable.

Look for your own hidden talents or that of your spouse's to generate extra income. Tutoring, music lessons, car detailing (this can be done with a shop vac or even a regular vacuum) babysitting, housekeeping, proof reading, baking cakes and breads, decorating for birthday parties (people do hire for this), hanging Christmas lights.

Downsize- smaller homes equal less heating and cooling. Smaller home = less stuff. Stuff you can't buy and don't need.

Take a look around your house and note all the unnecessary stuff. It came from somewhere. It came from our purchases of stuff we really didn't need. Maybe sell some of it- not anything sentimental, of course.

Don't shrink away from the idea of multi generational homes.

And remember homeschooling is cheap. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.  Keep your kids away from public school.

Trust in God.

And even though I read through the ideas of others I am sure I listed redundant proposals.

Dear OBRIEN,

Thanks for this well thought out post. Great tips!

I wanted to add regarding your tip about beans, when beans are combined with rice, it creates a complete protein!

"A ratio of 0.7 cup of pinto beans (114g) and 0.3 cup of wild rice (56g) creates a complete protein profile. The entire range to create a complete protein are ratios of 1:0.49 to 1:11 for pinto bean to wild rice by weight. Full nutritional
profile for wild rice USDA Source: Wild rice, cooked"

In addition, I know that some people, including, Gardener, like to be
on a KETO diet. I think his wife & children are not on keto.

A way to save money, is to FAST completely (a water fast) on Wednesdays &
Fridays, or Fridays & Saturdays! By fasting 1 or 2 days per week, you save
money on animal products, and you can afford to fill up on lots of veggies
in addition to the protein, making the meal cheaper & healthier. Without
completely getting out of ketosis. More of a HEALTHY KETO DIET.

Going on a water fast on Fridays, is good for the soul, your pocketbook
& your health. The body also goes into "Autophagy" killing off old &
dead cells, and it also helps to prevent COVID.

Autophagy is the body's way of cleaning out damaged cells,
in order to regenerate newer, healthier cells, according to Priya Khorana, PhD

Or

Autophagy (or autophagocytosis) (from the Ancient Greek ????????? autóphagos, meaning "self-devouring" and ????? kýtos, meaning "hollow" ) is the natural, conserved degradation of the cell that removes unnecessary or dysfunctional components through a lysosome-dependent regulated mechanism

And, OBRIEN, you are right, meat is a luxury, especially in the times we are living in.

Most countries that have lower cancer rates, especially colon cancer,
they use meat as a condiment. Meaning, you make a huge sauce with
a little bit of meat for flavor, lots of veggies & beans.

Meats with some sort of bones, are always used to make stews, soups,
a small piece that would normally feed 1 person is used to make a stew,
soup for the entire family. Again, for flavor. And these people typically have
a longer life expectancy compared to the US. So, you save money & stay healthier.

The minerals, nutrients that are released from the bones, when making
soups & stews are amazing for little growing brains, for the immune system,
they fill you up, they feed your body what it needs to be healthy. And it is cheaper
for the entire family. And the collagen keeps your skin looking & feeling younger.

And mind you, I love meat in every possible way, but at these prices,
in this economy, I think we should all try to cut back a bit. Especially,
since FASTING & going into Autophagy keeps COVID at bay. It is a win win.
Obviously, the fasting should only be done by adults, not the children...

Thank you, Obrien!

God Bless!

[Christe Eleison]

Other ideas:

Look into a healthshare instead of insurance.  It's likely much cheaper.

Make your own soap.

Two local stores will package "cheese ends" for a much lower price.  You might not be able to pick the cheese you want, but $2/lb is a lot cheaper than what it is if you buy the brick.  That said, one store around here often has sales on 6lb bricks of cheese and when they do, we buy a lot and freeze it.

Some stores have the same thing with "meat ends".  It's generally the only time I buy deli meats because it is again $2/lb.

If you have little kids, it's economical to use second hand sheets (or larger clothes) for materials to make clothing for them.  It's likely a lot cheaper than purchasing new cloth.

If you have a neighbor you trust, you could share the cost of wireless internet.  $30/month is a whole lot better than $60/month.

Purchase large roasts at cheaper prices.  One of my local stores often puts a significant markdown on meats with a sticker "eat or freeze today".  We can often get good cuts of meat for rock-bottom pricing.

Excellent tips, The Curt Jester! I appreciate it.

The soap idea works even better if you happen to own a goat like DIADUIT.
And her goats are adorable!
You can make goat's milk soap. Keeps your skin super soft
without added chemicals (remember that your skin is the largest
organ of the body!)
So, with a goat, you have nutritious milk & cheese. And soap. All three are
healthier alternatives compared to what you buy at the store. A win win!

God Bless!

[LausTibiChriste]

This titular question comes from plain ignorance. It doesn't come from malice or joking. I'm genuinely curious because, due to the vaccine mandates by the pudding eating Commander in Thief, this may be more reality than mental exercise in the near future... the very, very near future.

Background: I've done the poor thing before (well, I think so at least?) but I was single, fresh out of the Army, and my VA/Army retirement was able to pay for a very crappy studio apt ($500/mo at the time), basic food (maybe $200/mo), and I could do odd jobs when and how I wanted; in short, I was poor but not in a state of manic desperation. I didn't have to do food kitchens or contemplate crime. I somehow lived joyfully and very simply on something around <20k a year in the higher cost of living location of Colorado Springs. I even paid off a vehicle by scrimping and saving. I'd randomly force myself to go to bed hungry sometimes to "practice" in case it got worse, though I thought worse meant bad and at the time I thought I had it pretty darn good (which I did, compared to many). But I have no idea how to be that level of poor with kids, a 2021 mortgage, or in an environment that's not permissive to a rapidly unpopular mode of thinking with very little upward or even lateral mobility. It was a different time.

So tell me... if you have been, are, or are intimately connected with assisting or interacting with poor folks in the context of family and much higher cost of living: how do you, or they, do it? I want honest answers. If you are embarrassed by the reality, please PM me.

Tips?

Tricks?

What sort of things were lines in the sand for you and how did you mitigate those perceived needs and the need for crossing the line?

Does the current environment change how you might approach things?

Feel free to add to things I might not have asked.

Thanks.

Honest response...

Why not reframe the question in a totally different light? You're giving yourself a double-bind and pigeon-holing yourself.

Why does it have to be vax or poverty? You have a highly-desirable skill...you can easily freelance, work remotely or start your own business/consulting. Look beyond the options you think you're stuck to.

You can easily start a business online right now - 16-year-olds are making a killing. I'm talking 16-year-olds making $100,000k/month profit and they're posting memes on Instagram. I'm not saying post a meme Insta, my point is the barrier of entry has never been lower.

Go online, incorporate somewhere offshore where they probably won't mandate the jab for shit like having a bank account, and rake it in while you have the time.

Use that time and money to buy supplies and prep in case poop doesn't properly hit the fan for a couple years.

[ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez]

You can easily start a business online right now - 16-year-olds are making a killing. I'm talking 16-year-olds making $100,000k/month profit and they're posting memes on Instagram. I'm not saying post a meme Insta, my point is the barrier of entry has never been lower.

This is the white, suburban, Gen Z version of ignoring one's education with the hopes of becoming an NFL or NBA star.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

[LausTibiChriste]

You can easily start a business online right now - 16-year-olds are making a killing. I'm talking 16-year-olds making $100,000k/month profit and they're posting memes on Instagram. I'm not saying post a meme Insta, my point is the barrier of entry has never been lower.

This is the white, suburban, Gen Z version of ignoring one's education with the hopes of becoming an NFL or NBA star.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

I literally mentioned his highly desirable skills he got as a result of his education which he can market on his own instead of relying on some jab loving employer.

Self employment is hardly Gen X

[andy]

If I was in your situation, I would become a truck driver. $100k/year. Minimal cost of living.