Is it considered a sin to spend a lot of money on a certain breed of animal that you think would be the best pet for a family? For example, we would like a puppy for our kids but the shelters mostly have pitbull and mixes which aren't good family pets and we think the best option is just to buy from a reputable breeder but that costs quite a lot of money.
I think that if it is within your means, than by all means go for the dog. I believe the sin would be if you couldn't afford it but went into debt to get it, when there are more obvious needs for your family. Keep in mind, this is coming from young single guy who has no family responsibility.
Quote from: Melkor on February 27, 2021, 03:31:15 PM
I think that if it is within your means, than by all means go for the dog. I believe the sin would be if you couldn't afford it but went into debt to get it, when there are more obvious needs for your family.
This.
We bought a German Shepherd from a breeder, and paid more than the local shelter would have cost. In return, we have exactly the type of dog suited for our family, all the positive characteristics that we were after for our young family. Six years later, I have no regrets, as it was within our means to do so.
I would give the pitties a look. We have one and he is the softest, snuggliest, gooeyist ham lover dog we've ever had. Our German Shepherd is a sweetie, but has taken a testy turn lately towards Kipper the Pit Bull. We also have a chihuahua mix. It and the pit play hilariously together.
I'm sure they can be sweet, we just want something around 10 pounds or so and no yippie Chihuahuas lol. I'm pretty dead set against getting any large breed at a shelter when I don't know the background or history
Quote from: TandJ on February 27, 2021, 06:07:58 PM
I'm sure they can be sweet, we just want something around 10 pounds or so and no yippie Chihuahuas lol. I'm pretty dead set against getting any large breed at a shelter when I don't know the background or history
I think all small dogs like that are yippie. You should get a Rottweiler.
Quote from: TandJ on February 27, 2021, 06:07:58 PM
I'm sure they can be sweet, we just want something around 10 pounds or so and no yippie Chihuahuas lol. I'm pretty dead set against getting any large breed at a shelter when I don't know the background or history
I inherited a Chihuahua several years old. You can't imagine how stressful it is to walk him. He doesn't yip, he screams and rages at every person, and any living thing he sees. He hates everything outside so bad his eyes bulge out and he sounds like he might vomit with rage. Yippy, if only.
Dachshunds aren't yippy.
Whatever you do, don't get a dog with pit bull ancestry. Despite being a small percentage of the population, pit bulls are responsible for a majority of fatal dog maulings. Frankly, the breed ought to be genocided out of existence. I envision a doggie DNA test as a prerequisite for pet licensing or services at a veterinarian. If genetic markers indicate pit bull, the dog must be immediately seized and destroyed. Has anyone ever noticed the type of people who own pit bulls? They are usually hoodlum or trailer park types. Or white women who have a savior complex.
Quote from: christulsa on February 27, 2021, 09:30:46 PM
Dachshunds aren't yippy.
But they are nippy. Not exactly family dogs.
I know of people here in SW England who have spent 8000 dollars treating a dog or cat for cancer.
When vets' bills exceed the price of feeding a village in the third world then,vin my view, that is immoral.
For lonely single people 4 figures per year on pets is perhaps justifiable. Pets are good company and good for mental health. But in a family with lots of children an expensive pet is a luxury. I think you need to cap the costs, like you would with wine drinking or the cars you drive or what you spend on gambling.
Fatima children said avoid luxury.
So 500 on a dog, reasonable. 4000 dollars on a pedigree breed? That is excessive
Quote from: GiftOfGod on February 28, 2021, 01:00:02 AM
Whatever you do, don't get a dog with pit bull ancestry. Despite being a small percentage of the population, pit bulls are responsible for a majority of fatal dog maulings. Frankly, the breed ought to be genocided out of existence. I envision a doggie DNA test as a prerequisite for pet licensing or services at a veterinarian. If genetic markers indicate pit bull, the dog must be immediately seized and destroyed. Has anyone ever noticed the type of people who own pit bulls? They are usually hoodlum or trailer park types. Or white women who have a savior complex.
Quote from: christulsa on February 27, 2021, 09:30:46 PM
Dachshunds aren't yippy.
But they are nippy. Not exactly family dogs.
For once I agree with you and cannot conceive how anyone with more than one brain cell thinks 'I'll get a pitbull' or anything with a hint of pitbull. I just wish for once it would be the owner who gets attacked and not the neighbours kid.
Have you owned a dog before? Are you comfortable around dogs?
If you are inexperienced, the best thing about getting a purebred is that you can choose a dog with good traits that you can easily manage. An inexperienced person should not get a malamute or some other type of strong personality. Corgis are wonderful. Golden Retrievers are wonderful. They love to please their humans. If you go to a shelter, you might get lucky (or you might not).
Quote from: GiftOfGod on February 28, 2021, 01:00:02 AM
Whatever you do, don't get a dog with pit bull ancestry. Despite being a small percentage of the population, pit bulls are responsible for a majority of fatal dog maulings. Frankly, the breed ought to be genocided out of existence. I envision a doggie DNA test as a prerequisite for pet licensing or services at a veterinarian. If genetic markers indicate pit bull, the dog must be immediately seized and destroyed. Has anyone ever noticed the type of people who own pit bulls? They are usually hoodlum or trailer park types. Or white women who have a savior complex.
Quote from: christulsa on February 27, 2021, 09:30:46 PM
Dachshunds aren't yippy.
But they are nippy. Not exactly family dogs.
What is your experience with pit bulls, Gift(de)? I mentioned I had one. He's about 8 months and 65 pounds of pure muscled cuddle. My middle daughter was a vet tech and reports that pits are the most agreeable and satisfying breed to work with. Do you have these experiences?
OK, so, in full disclosure, Kipper does play rough, but, whatever. A few missing chunks of flesh and machete like scars on my cue ball head add to my already krusty demeanour.
Dackels, on the other hand, are indeed nippy and cantankerous beasts.
Schreckliche Hundrasse.
I've also heard pit bulls have great personalities. Every pit bull I dared to pet was like a happy little child. Smiling ear to ear slobbering. Amusing dogs. I suppose the one's who attack were beaten by their wife beater owners who thought owning a pit bull made them more manly because the breed looks tough. That's my theory.
And dachshunds aren't nippy, at least mine of ten years has never been nippy. They do get nervous at first around strangers. But they're also great dogs.
When Peanut goes to dog heaven I'm getting either a golden retriever or a german shepherd. Every man needs a dog.
Quote from: Elizabeth.2 on February 27, 2021, 09:07:40 PM
Quote from: TandJ on February 27, 2021, 06:07:58 PM
I'm sure they can be sweet, we just want something around 10 pounds or so and no yippie Chihuahuas lol. I'm pretty dead set against getting any large breed at a shelter when I don't know the background or history
I inherited a Chihuahua several years old. You can't imagine how stressful it is to walk him. He doesn't yip, he screams and rages at every person, and any living thing he sees. He hates everything outside so bad his eyes bulge out and he sounds like he might vomit with rage. Yippy, if only.
:rofl: Sorry for laughing. I think chihuahuas are related to chupacabras, aren't they Elizabeth?
TandJ black labs and border collies are two of the most smartest dog breeds. They both have nice personalities too. And good around kids. You might get lucky and find a lab cross or a border collie cross at the pound. Sometimes mixed breeds can be even more intelligent.
We've been trying to place applications for months at our shelter but never succeeded because the small dogs are in such high demand. The last dog we applied for we were told we were number 175 on the list. We went ahead and purchased a dog last night. A Maltese shihtsu mix puppy. All in was a couple thousand dollars (Including the flight to get here) which I hated to pay for but we don't have any real debt besides our mortgage and we could pay using our tax return money. I figured it will live around 10 years so the yearly price isn't that much considering we can train it to be nice and healthy. I don't feel I did anything mortally sinful but perhaps I should ask my priest (I have a feeling he will say not sinful since every worry I go to him with is not sinful).
Quote from: MaximGun on February 28, 2021, 01:21:22 AM
Fatima children said avoid luxury.
Yes but is luxury every once in a while a sin?? A mortal sin? There's just not other option for us around here except pits and chihuahuas and mixes as the smaller friendly pups are snatched up as soon as they enter the shelter. Is there something in moral theology about this?
1. Donate 10% of your pay to the Church and charitable organizations.
2. Provide for your family.
You take care of that, wipe your butt with $100's if you want.
Note giving more than 10% is virtuous, but not giving more than 10% is not sinful. Remember there's a time to feast and a time to fast. Find a good balance. I'd say you also have to be on guard against materialism. If you want to drop thousands on a dog to impress the neighbors, that would be wrong. If you have to drop some money on a dog in order to find one that meets your requirements, that's fine, as long as 1 and 2 above are satisfied.
Quote from: james03 on February 28, 2021, 03:07:23 PM
1. Donate 10% of your pay to the Church and charitable organizations.
2. Provide for your family.
You take care of that, wipe your butt with $100's if you want.
Note giving more than 10% is virtuous, but not giving more than 10% is not sinful. Remember there's a time to feast and a time to fast. Find a good balance. I'd say you also have to be on guard against materialism. If you want to drop thousands on a dog to impress the neighbors, that would be wrong. If you have to drop some money on a dog in order to find one that meets your requirements, that's fine, as long as 1 and 2 above are satisfied.
That's what I figured but I scrupe out sometimes about things :) we don't have credit card debt and only carry a mortgage. We donate generously to convents and missions and sponsor three children from other countries. This is a luxury yes but my kids are lonely and I am scared of getting a mean dog that will scar them for life, which is also why we are attracted to smaller dogs. St. Thomas More collected a lot of rare and unique animals for his children's amusement. They probably cost a pretty penny too
Happy for you. Little dogs live longer on average. Going to be fun! :toth:
Para ti, Elisabeth:
[yt]https://youtu.be/DLu2CFDBJk0[/yt]
[yt]https://youtu.be/ototMJ5JJyU[/yt]
I want a farm and I have a lot of kids, so right now I want a lab. I will probably continue to own labs until I am very very old and much less mobile; then I am getting a white teacup Pom! *squee*
Quote from: james03 on February 28, 2021, 03:07:23 PM
Note giving more than 10% is virtuous, but not giving more than 10% is not sinful.
Just for clarification, nor is it sinful to give less than 10%. Our Lord having ended the OT 10% tithe as obligatory.
Quote from: MaximGun on February 28, 2021, 01:21:22 AM
I know of people here in SW England who have spent 8000 dollars treating a dog or cat for cancer.
When vets' bills exceed the price of feeding a village in the third world then,vin my view, that is immoral.
For lonely single people 4 figures per year on pets is perhaps justifiable. Pets are good company and good for mental health. But in a family with lots of children an expensive pet is a luxury. I think you need to cap the costs, like you would with wine drinking or the cars you drive or what you spend on gambling.
Fatima children said avoid luxury.
So 500 on a dog, reasonable. 4000 dollars on a pedigree breed? That is excessive
It depends. Pedigrees can cost sums which make 4k seem somewhat small. It still seems a bit unhinged, but if someone meets their obligations and is of means, I cannot see the wrong in it. The thing is that you see quite poor people with a pair of huge dogs, and these aren't working dogs useful for a hunter or farmer. They can provide great companionship, but at what cost?
If its within your means and no depriving the family of essentials (not to mention not skipping charity) buy all means buy it. These people need to make a living after all....
Quote from: christulsa on February 27, 2021, 09:30:46 PM
Dachshunds aren't yippy.
Yes, dachshunds are a good choice for small dogs. However, if you have children, it's best to get a dachshund as a puppy, as they tend to get very set in their ways, and older dachshunds may very well not get along with children, especially if they didn't grow up around them.
It would also be important to have somewhere for them to dig—they LOVE to dig, in my experience, and it is good exercise for them. They are prone to getting pretty fat if they don't get enough exercise. Fat dachshunds can have pretty bad back problems.
I'd say like anything, as long as you can afford it on top of other more necessary expenses, and this is the right breed for you, it's fine. You might not find what you're looking for at a shelter and that's okay,
My family went the rescue route, thinking adopting an adult would be better with young children, and we had to return the dog because he had a slew of behavioral issues. He had a serious aversion to my husband for no reason and routinely bullied our senior dog. Needless to say, we'll stick with a puppy, and probably one from a reputable breeder.
What some people don't know is that reputable breeder means a show-bred/preservation breeder that does health testing. This can cost you 1-3000 depending on breed and where you live. Health tested parents. A "backyard" breeder doesn't do this. So while it may seem silly to buy from someone who shows dogs, those are typically the breeders you want to reach out to if you go the purebred route.
I'm gonna say it again. Stop asking moral questions on an Internet forum. It is not going to help you in the long run.
@ChristusRex she can ask if she wants to. There are plenty of Catholics on this forum who know their faith very well and can give good advice. I mean, isn't that the whole point of a Catholic forum? So Catholics can discuss their Faith with fellow Catholics?
Quote from: Melkor on March 17, 2021, 09:53:37 PM
@ChristusRex she can ask if she wants to. There are plenty of Catholics on this forum who know their faith very well and can give good advice. I mean, isn't that the whole point of a Catholic forum? So Catholics can discuss their Faith with fellow Catholics?
If it were a question here and there, and the person wasn't scrupulous, sure that would make sense. But she admitted to being scrupulous, so bad, that she "wants to die". And, she has 5 topics started about moral questions in the first page of Ask A Traditionalist. I was just saying that to try and help. I empathize with what she is experiencing and I am trying to share with her what helped me overcome scruples, that's all.
Hmm @TandJ if you are looking for a good book on our Faith I recommend the Spirago. Very good. Sorry @ChristusRex, I misunderstood your tone. Easy to do with just text and no voice. :)
Quote from: Melkor on March 18, 2021, 08:04:43 AM
Hmm @TandJ if you are looking for a good book on our Faith I recommend the Spirago. Very good. Sorry @ChristusRex, I misunderstood your tone. Easy to do with just text and no voice. :)
No worries. Sorry, I'm sure it read as being quite abrasive. I was trying to be firm in my advice because the scrupulous need straightforward advice without any doubt.
So how do I form my conscience in the meanwhile? My priest doesn't have time to answer every thing I ask about... and books can be hit or miss or not have the answers. I'm not trying to be a pain.
The puppy is very sweet and we are happy we got her
Well, until you can get everything sorted out with your priest, I would advise reading a catechism and form your conscience off of that. Never hurts to pick up a good spiritual book to quell your scruples and bring peace to your soul. I recommend Introduction to the Devout Life by Francis de Sales and Imitation of Christ by Thomas A Kempis. Also, if you are 'scruping out' about minor issues, remember it is a venial sin even if you are guilty. And also, being too scrupulous is a sin too. :) I will pray for you.
Quote from: Melkor on March 18, 2021, 11:49:35 AM
Well, until you can get everything sorted out with your priest, I would advise reading a catechism and form your conscience off of that. Never hurts to pick up a good spiritual book to quell your scruples and bring peace to your soul. I recommend Introduction to the Devout Life by Francis de Sales and Imitation of Christ by Thomas A Kempis. Also, if you are 'scruping out' about minor issues, remember it is a venial sin even if you are guilty. And also, being too scrupulous is a sin too. :) I will pray for you.
Certain spiritual works might actually be harmful depending on one's temperament. Things like the Imitation can throw a Melancholic into a tailspin, whereas a Choleric needs such works.
I attached a copy of Fr. Kappes' articles on the temperaments in this post:
https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=19629.msg435033#msg435033
If you decide to read Imitation of Christ by Thomas A Kempis this digital version has the same Practical Reflections and Prayers after each chapter as my hard copy.
http://www.catholictradition.org/Classics/christ2.htm
By the way, the correct name of the book is 'The Following of Christ'. 'Imitation of Christ' is part of the title of the first chapter, which a lot of people call it now.
@Gardener yeah I see your point. My sanguine self needs some strictness once in a while. Not everyone is the same.
Quote from: TandJ on March 18, 2021, 11:20:38 AM
So how do I form my conscience in the meanwhile? My priest doesn't have time to answer every thing I ask about... and books can be hit or miss or not have the answers. I'm not trying to be a pain.
The puppy is very sweet and we are happy we got her
Yes, books can be hit or miss but what did not appeal to a person at one point can be more edifying down the road.
Relax. Don't overthink things. If you could afford the puppy, i.e. not go into debt and not skip required payments, you're fine. A pet is a wonderful addition to a family.