Knights of Malta Ban The Tridentine Mass

Started by nmoerbeek, June 10, 2019, 01:56:07 PM

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The Harlequin King

Quote from: Kreuzritter on June 11, 2019, 09:26:41 AM
I'll be staying away from any organisation in which somebody call himself "Grand Master".

Too bad. It was Catholics who came up with it.

Vetus Ordo

Quote from: Gardener on June 11, 2019, 10:13:39 AM
Quote from: Vetus Ordo on June 11, 2019, 10:07:48 AM
Quote from: nmoerbeek on June 11, 2019, 09:59:36 AM

Picture from a recent retreat of the Knights of Malta

The Turks would call it a treat these days.

Not enough pre and mid pubescent boys.

Yes.

But some of the women could work in the Sultan's kitchens or go to work at the houses of Pashas.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.

The Harlequin King

Quote from: nmoerbeek on June 11, 2019, 09:59:36 AMI don't think it will.  From my dealings with the Knights of Malta it appears that common prayer life is not really a big part of the life of  the associate members of the Knights of Malta (which are about 30,000 in the world), they are much more focused on the corporal works of mercy. 

We should not imagine that the Knights of Malta are a large group of tough old country European aristocrats, their members seem to be much more a reflective of contemporary Catholicism in America.

For what it's worth, I'm the liturgist for the Order of Malta in my area. We probably pray the Liturgy of the Hours in common more than any other lay group in the region.

Vetus Ordo

Quote from: The Harlequin King on June 11, 2019, 10:23:20 AM
Quote from: nmoerbeek on June 11, 2019, 09:59:36 AMI don't think it will.  From my dealings with the Knights of Malta it appears that common prayer life is not really a big part of the life of  the associate members of the Knights of Malta (which are about 30,000 in the world), they are much more focused on the corporal works of mercy. 

We should not imagine that the Knights of Malta are a large group of tough old country European aristocrats, their members seem to be much more a reflective of contemporary Catholicism in America.

For what it's worth, I'm the liturgist for the Order of Malta in my area. We probably pray the Liturgy of the Hours in common more than any other lay group in the region.

And to be fair, their charitable work worldwide is remarkable.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.

nmoerbeek

#19
Quote from: The Harlequin King on June 11, 2019, 10:23:20 AM
Quote from: nmoerbeek on June 11, 2019, 09:59:36 AMI don't think it will.  From my dealings with the Knights of Malta it appears that common prayer life is not really a big part of the life of  the associate members of the Knights of Malta (which are about 30,000 in the world), they are much more focused on the corporal works of mercy. 

We should not imagine that the Knights of Malta are a large group of tough old country European aristocrats, their members seem to be much more a reflective of contemporary Catholicism in America.

For what it's worth, I'm the liturgist for the Order of Malta in my area. We probably pray the Liturgy of the Hours in common more than any other lay group in the region.

Could you share some more details for our edification? Is that unique to your group or is that common throughout the association? That seems unique but I have not dealt with any Knights of Malta since moving to WV from California. 
"Let me, however, beg of Your Beatitude...
not to think so much of what I have written, as of my good and kind intentions. Please look for the truths of which I speak rather than for beauty of expression. Where I do not come up to your expectations, pardon me, and put my shortcomings down, please, to lack of time and stress of business." St. Bonaventure, From the Preface of Holiness of Life.

Apostolate:
http://www.alleluiaaudiobooks.com/
Contributor:
http://unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.com/
Lay Association:
http://www.militiatempli.net/

Miriam_M

Quote from: nmoerbeek on June 11, 2019, 09:59:36 AM
We should not imagine that the Knights of Malta are a large group of tough old country European aristocrats, their members seem to be much more a reflective of contemporary Catholicism in America.

Picture from a recent retreat of the Knights of Malta

Ah, yes, true modern Catholic identity:  Women in pants.

The Harlequin King

Quote from: nmoerbeek on June 11, 2019, 10:40:43 AM
Could you share some more details for our edification? Is that unique to your group or is that common throughout the association? That seems unique but I have not dealt with any Knights of Malta since moving to WV from California.

In my area, we frequently refer to membership in the Order as a vocation (with a small v). Even in the third class of membership, the commitment to daily prayer of some kind is mentioned all the time. About half a year past, I ordered a bunch of breviaries which were produced by the Canadian Association and distributed them to everyone. I'm not saying we use them as a group all the time, but everyone knows what they are and how to use them. When I went on the Order's pilgrimage to the shrine of Our Lady of Good Help in Wisconsin, we all prayed Compline after dinner every night.

It's true that in the third class, the members are more geared toward corporal works of mercy than liturgy (which is to be expected). But I've worked toward making the liturgy more prominent in our activities, and it's been appreciated by everyone involved.

nmoerbeek

Quote from: The Harlequin King on June 11, 2019, 12:09:28 PM
Quote from: nmoerbeek on June 11, 2019, 10:40:43 AM
Could you share some more details for our edification? Is that unique to your group or is that common throughout the association? That seems unique but I have not dealt with any Knights of Malta since moving to WV from California.

In my area, we frequently refer to membership in the Order as a vocation (with a small v). Even in the third class of membership, the commitment to daily prayer of some kind is mentioned all the time. About half a year past, I ordered a bunch of breviaries which were produced by the Canadian Association and distributed them to everyone. I'm not saying we use them as a group all the time, but everyone knows what they are and how to use them. When I went on the Order's pilgrimage to the shrine of Our Lady of Good Help in Wisconsin, we all prayed Compline after dinner every night.

It's true that in the third class, the members are more geared toward corporal works of mercy than liturgy (which is to be expected). But I've worked toward making the liturgy more prominent in our activities, and it's been appreciated by everyone involved.

I didn't mean anything negative by calling it an association. I write a lot of letters for the Poor Knights and I have to use such terms all the time, yes of course it is a vocation.

That's great, I am really glad to hear you pushing things in that direction.   I was once at Priestly Ordination in my habit (in California) and I had a conversation with several of the Knights of Malta, the experience was pleasant but we were mutually surprised during our discussion.  I was surprised that they did not say the office, and they were surprised at our demands on our brothers.

But you would agree that there probably is not going to be an exodus over demanding a conformity to the LOH and the NO for official events?

"Let me, however, beg of Your Beatitude...
not to think so much of what I have written, as of my good and kind intentions. Please look for the truths of which I speak rather than for beauty of expression. Where I do not come up to your expectations, pardon me, and put my shortcomings down, please, to lack of time and stress of business." St. Bonaventure, From the Preface of Holiness of Life.

Apostolate:
http://www.alleluiaaudiobooks.com/
Contributor:
http://unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.com/
Lay Association:
http://www.militiatempli.net/

The Harlequin King

Oh, I wasn't being nitpicky about terms. I just wanted to open with the bit about "vocation" to show that where I am, membership in the Order is not just a club. We take it very seriously.

Quote from: nmoerbeek on June 11, 2019, 12:38:44 PM
But you would agree that there probably is not going to be an exodus over demanding a conformity to the LOH and the NO for official events?

Right. While many Knights and Dames of the Order regularly attend the TLM (including in the habit of the Order, when invited), it's rare for the TLM to be used for an official Order function. I've never personally been to one, been invited to one, or authorized to plan one. The only part of the Order I know of which regularly has TLM's (or TL Vespers, etc.) would be the Grand Priory of England. The previous Grand Master, Fra Matthew Festing, was formerly the Grand Prior of England before he was GM, so he must have endorsed these and regularly attended them himself.

So, my reading of the new GM's order is that this is a "flex" of the Bergoglian faction against the faction represented by Fra Matthew (and Cardinal Burke). Furthermore, the GM before Festing, Fra Andrew Bertie, who is a "servant of God" on the path of canonization, was also from the Grand Priory of England.