Jesus' "Family Tree" Chart?

Started by drummerboy, June 22, 2024, 09:31:38 PM

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drummerboy

So can anyone recommend a chart that displays Jesus' family tree, one that pieces together His various cousins and Joseph and Mary's relations as well?  All I could find were ones by protestants who are still too stupid to realize "brother" isn't a literal brother  :deadhorse: 


 And on the question of Joseph....the Protoevangelion of James describes Joseph as an aged widower.  Wouldn't that imply he had relations before his marriage to Our Blessed Lady, and therefore children (possibly)?  I always thought tradition was Joseph remained a virgin.  Or was "widower" a generic term for any older, unmarried man?

Thanks!
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Innocent Smith

#1
Quote from: drummerboy on June 22, 2024, 09:31:38 PMSo can anyone recommend a chart that displays Jesus' family tree, one that pieces together His various cousins and Joseph and Mary's relations as well?  All I could find were ones by protestants who are still too stupid to realize "brother" isn't a literal brother  :deadhorse: 


 And on the question of Joseph....the Protoevangelion of James describes Joseph as an aged widower.  Wouldn't that imply he had relations before his marriage to Our Blessed Lady, and therefore children (possibly)?  I always thought tradition was Joseph remained a virgin.  Or was "widower" a generic term for any older, unmarried man?

Thanks!

I'm not fond of the idea that terms like brother and widower are so "generic", even fluid when it comes to the Bible.

They need to do better than that.  Way too much explanation about this stuff with pretty much zero proof.

I don't recall the Bible referring to The Baptist as a "brother" of our Lord.  They don't even call him a cousin of the Lord.  We only know this since Mary visited Elizabeth and it informs us Elizabeth was Mary's Cousin. 

This people, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, include all kinds of genealogies in which I see no evidence to support the claim that those referred to as "brothers of our Lord" are merely kinsfolk.  They seemed to be quite adept at describing relationships and the importance of them.  It makes zero sense that everything gets loosy-goosy later on. 

I honestly think this is not an area to go hunting in.  I accept that there could be multitudes of reasons for this error that is explained away at the same skill level that would persuade most kindergartners. 

But I don't buy it. 
I am going to hold a pistol to the head of the modern man. But I shall not use it to kill him, only to bring him to life.

spasiisochrani

The Protoevangelion of James is not scripture, but is a sort of New Testament fan fiction.  We do not know whether St. Joseph was a widower with children.

TradGranny

Jesus had kin, not brothers.

I found this. Link at end.

Why do Catholics teach that Mary was a virgin throughout her life when the Bible clearly says that Jesus had brothers? Ever been asked that?

Let me offer four reasons:
1. The Meaning of Brother

The first thing to understand is that the term brother (Gk. adelphos) has a broader meaning than uterine brothers. It can mean a biological brother, but it can also mean an extended relative, or even a spiritual brother.
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Take Genesis 13:8 for example. Here the word brother is being used to describe the relationship between Abraham and Lot, who were not biological brothers but uncle and nephew:

"So Abram said to Lot, "Let's not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herdsmen and mine, for we are brothers" (Gen 13:8, NIV; see also 14:12).

Because of the Bible's broad semantic range of "brother," we can rest assured that although St. Paul writes, "[Jesus] appeared to more than five hundred...brothers at the same time" (1 Cor. 15:6), we need not infer from this verse that Mary gave birth to more than 500 children!
2. Children of Mary?

These "brothers" are never once called the children of Mary, although Jesus himself is (John 2:1; Acts 1:14).
3. Other Women Named Mary

James and Joseph (also called Joses), who are called Jesus' "brothers" (Mark 6:3) are indeed the children of Mary—Just not Mary, the mother of Jesus.

After St. Matthew's account of the crucifixion and death of Jesus, he writes:

"There were also many women there, looking on from afar, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him; among who were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee." (Matt. 27:56; see also Mark 15:40).
4. Consensus of the Early Church

The earliest explanation of the "brothers" of the Lord is found in a document known as the Protoevangelium of James, which was written around A.D. 150. It speaks of Mary as a consecrated virgin since her youth, and of St. Joseph as an elderly widower with children who was chosen to be Mary's spouse for the purposes of guarding and protecting her while respecting her vow of virginity. Though this document is not on the level of Sacred Scripture, it was written very early, and it may contain accurate historical traditions.

Allow me to limit myself to three quotes from the early Church:

Athanasius of Alexandria

"Therefore let those who deny that the Son is from the Father by nature and proper to his essence deny also that he took true human flesh of Mary Ever-Virgin [Four Discourses Against the Arians 2:70 (c. A.D. 360)].

St. Jerome

"You say that Mary did not continue a virgin: I claim still more that Joseph himself, on account of Mary was a virgin, so that from a virgin wedlock a virgin son was born [Perpetual Virginity of Blessed Mary 21 (A.D. 383)].

Pope St. Leo I

"The origin is different but the nature alike: not by intercourse with man but by the power of God was it brought about: for a Virgin conceived, a Virgin bore, and a Virgin she remained [Sermons 22:2 (A.D. 450)].

Thus the same Church today affirm:

    Jesus is Mary's only son, but her spiritual motherhood extends to all men whom indeed he came to save: "The Son whom she brought forth is he whom God placed as the first-born among many brethren, that is, the faithful in whose generation and formation she co-operates with a mother's love (Catechism of the Catholic Church 501).



https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/jesus-had-brothers
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