Wives and work

[Kephapaulos]

What do you think about the issue of modern society having the concern about a woman having a job or degree and build retirement if they are married and in case if the husband dies?

[piabee]

This is not a modern concern. What do you think a dowry was for?

[Kephapaulos]

Well, I thought it was an implicit assumption among modern society today where the wife is expected to have a degree or work just in case if the husband dies. Unless, that's just something my mother gets concerned about or some in her family.

So a dowry was not just for the wedding then. I wonder where dowries would be given in the U.S. now. I imagine it is extremely rare to come across that.

[MundaCorMeum]

I guess you could consider the fact that it is customary for the bride's family to pay for all the wedding expenses as a sort of modern day dowry. 

As far as your other question.  I don't have a problem with a woman getting a degree and furthering her education, in and of itself.  I don't think that is immoral or sinful.  However, I don't think it's absolutely necessary in every case.  And, I don't think that getting it simply as a "fall back" is the best reason to go to college and get a degree.  For one thing, after almost 15 years past graduation, I'm not sure that my degree would do me much good in getting a job, anyway, if my husband were to die tomorrow.  I might be able to find something if I had to, but I seriously doubt it would be in my particular field of study (mechanical engineering).  I also don't think college should be the automatic default position for all people.  It should be carefully thought out, and you should really only seek a degree if you need it for what you choose to do in life, especially if it will cause you to have lots of debt.  Seems like that would be the opposite of a dowry, if you are getting married   If you can pay your own way, or get scholarships, then that's different.  But, to go and get a degree, just so you have something to fall back on, in case your husband dies (chances of that are not very high, though it is a very real possibility), then saddle him with debt afterwards, seems kind of selfish to me (keep in mind, this is what I did to my husband, and I feel guilty every time I write a check to the loan company.  I wish I had done things differently, but such is life...live and learn.  Although, I went to college because it's just what you do.  I didn't even know my husband before I went.  I wasn't going as a backup plan kind of thing.  I was just doing what everyone else did...also a stupid reason to go to college  .  I just didn't know better).  There are better reasons for seeking out a degree.  Besides, so many colleges are cess pools for immorality.  It's a risk to one's faith to go there, so that has to be considered when deciding, too, I think.  It many cases, it becomes a necessary occasion of sin; not always...I'm well aware there are exceptions to that, and that lots of people come out of colleges with their faith in tact; but, I don't think it's the majority).

[james03]

College is a good place to get a degree in Mrs.  Debt should be avoided.  It is important to not get caught up in the false idol of careerism, since a career does not exist (though feminists believe it is the mythical talisman that unlocks the power of the patriarchy).  The wife can work before the kids arrive to keep herself occupied.

So if a girl is properly instructed about the evils of feminsm and careerism, college can be a good thing for her.

[ÆneasQuébécois]

I guess you could consider the fact that it is customary for the bride's family to pay for all the wedding expenses as a sort of modern day dowry. 

As far as your other question.  I don't have a problem with a woman getting a degree and furthering her education, in and of itself.  I don't think that is immoral or sinful.  However, I don't think it's absolutely necessary in every case.  And, I don't think that getting it simply as a "fall back" is the best reason to go to college and get a degree.  For one thing, after almost 15 years past graduation, I'm not sure that my degree would do me much good in getting a job, anyway, if my husband were to die tomorrow.  I might be able to find something if I had to, but I seriously doubt it would be in my particular field of study (mechanical engineering).  I also don't think college should be the automatic default position for all people.  It should be carefully thought out, and you should really only seek a degree if you need it for what you choose to do in life, especially if it will cause you to have lots of debt.  Seems like that would be the opposite of a dowry, if you are getting married   If you can pay your own way, or get scholarships, then that's different.  But, to go and get a degree, just so you have something to fall back on, in case your husband dies (chances of that are not very high, though it is a very real possibility), then saddle him with debt afterwards, seems kind of selfish to me (keep in mind, this is what I did to my husband, and I feel guilty every time I write a check to the loan company.  I wish I had done things differently, but such is life...live and learn.  Although, I went to college because it's just what you do.  I didn't even know my husband before I went.  I wasn't going as a backup plan kind of thing.  I was just doing what everyone else did...also a stupid reason to go to college  .  I just didn't know better).  There are better reasons for seeking out a degree.  Besides, so many colleges are cess pools for immorality.  It's a risk to one's faith to go there, so that has to be considered when deciding, too, I think.  It many cases, it becomes a necessary occasion of sin; not always...I'm well aware there are exceptions to that, and that lots of people come out of colleges with their faith in tact; but, I don't think it's the majority).

I'm male, therefore unqualified to open my mouth about anything related to women,  However, I agree, especially about the last bit. In Canada, at least, people seem to respect one's desire to not participate more, but the way Sex^tm is pushed on everyone, not just by the students but even by the university faculty is disgusting, if not surprising. As a history major, atm, I've also been fed so much drivel which, needless to say, is not worth the money I'm paying for it. Tbh, the only reason I'm even going to university is because it will make immigrating much easier. To be honest, I'm not sure I would let my daughters go to university, given how dangerous and disgusting it tends to be.   

[piabee]

I guess you could consider the fact that it is customary for the bride's family to pay for all the wedding expenses as a sort of modern day dowry.

My parents paid for my degree.

[ÆneasQuébécois]

I guess you could consider the fact that it is customary for the bride's family to pay for all the wedding expenses as a sort of modern day dowry.

My parents paid for my degree.

Lucky

[piabee]

Lucky

I lived at home, did community college, and went to a state school. Expenses were minimal.

[piabee]

So a dowry was not just for the wedding then.

A dowry was not for the wedding. It was, as my dad likes to say, to support the wife's expenses "in the manner to which she is accustomed."

[MundaCorMeum]

I guess you could consider the fact that it is customary for the bride's family to pay for all the wedding expenses as a sort of modern day dowry.

My parents paid for my degree.

I thought you were single? 

So, you and your parents consider the degree as part of your dowry, so your (potential) husband can "support your expenses in the manner in which you are accustomed?"  I didn't know that's what a dowry was for, tbh.  Seems like paying for the wedding could aid in that goal, too, as the husband wouldn't have to use any of his money for that expense, and thus have more to use for his wife and (potential) children's expenses. 

Also, what if a woman gets married right after college and has babies very soon after that?  How would a degree be helpful in providing support then, when she has no time to build up funds?  I'm not trying to be rude, by the way.  I'm just not seeing how a degree can be seen as a dowry in the absolute or general sense.  I can see it in particular circumstances, where a woman gets married later, or doesn't have babies right away, so has more time to work to save money.  But, for many young brides, that's not how it works.  Unless she intentionally waits to seek a husband until she has a little nest egg built up??  I don't think that should be a pre-requisite for marriage, either, and it's not always that easy to plan your life to go that way. 

[MundaCorMeum]

College is a good place to get a degree in Mrs.  Debt should be avoided.  It is important to not get caught up in the false idol of careerism, since a career does not exist (though feminists believe it is the mythical talisman that unlocks the power of the patriarchy).  The wife can work before the kids arrive to keep herself occupied.

So if a girl is properly instructed about the evils of feminsm and careerism, college can be a good thing for her.

I don't completely disagree, and it's certainly better than sitting around the house, watching soap operas and waiting for babies to show up.  But, having been in that boat, I wish I would've played my cards better.  I worked odd secretarial temp jobs until I got pregnant for our first...it was about 7 months after we got married.  Not by choice; just how things went.  In hindsight, my time would've been better spent developing the necessary skills for managing a home and caring for children.  Or, at the very least, if I had been wiser, I would've sought out a job that taught me those skills while earned some cash at the same time (like being a nanny, or something).  As it was, I knew very little about how to properly manage a home and raise kids in the Faith.  We've lost so much as a culture in that regard.  Generally speaking, mothers today don't teach their daughters those skills anymore, because it's seen as weak and oppressive to women.  It's pretty sad, and it puts these girls at a huge disadvantage if/when they become wives and mothers one day.  I was taught to think that "just staying at home" was such a waste of time and talent.  I thought I needed to be out there doing something productive (code for "making money"  ).  It's weird to me that many people see little value in being a stay at home Mom ("I couldn't stay home and do nothing all day long; I'd get bored"), but see so much value in having a "career".  Then, they shell out a considerable amount of their paychecks to day cares to simulate what stay at home Mom's do.  It just doesn't make sense to me.  I realize I'm likely preaching to the choir here, James, but it's a huge soap box of mine! 

Also, to clarify, I'm not saying that all wives who work are in the wrong.  Some wives really do need to work, and that's fine.  But, I personally believe it's better for the wife to stay home with the children, and if she does want to work while doing that, it should not come at the expense of her duties of state, barring necessary exceptions.

[james03]

I worked odd secretarial temp jobs until I got pregnant for our first...it was about 7 months after we got married.

That's what my wife did, and she had a blast.  We took her check and put it in savings so we wouldn't get used to it.

Generally speaking, mothers today don't teach their daughters those skills anymore, because it's seen as weak and oppressive to women.

That's the problem.

[Jacob]

Go to Wikipedia and read up on dowries.  The article is pretty good.

[Chestertonian]

My wife ans i got married the summer before her senior year of college.. we planned on her staying home eventually but Gotduagnosed with mitochondrial disease. She probably shouldn't have married me but I think it served her well to get her degree since we'd be screwed if she had no means of supporting herself and the kids.  No one else is going to step in and take care of them.  In this culture you have to be able to take care of yourself.  Most families are one tragic car accident away from the same kind of fate

in the not too distant future youll be able to test for genetic diseases and see if your potential spouse has a devastating genetic condition like mitochondrial disease als, parkindons, Alzheimer's etc.... and decide to marry accordingly