Author Topic: Discussions in Catholic Forums  (Read 1210 times)

Offline christulsa

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Discussions in Catholic Forums
« on: August 12, 2017, 04:34:25 PM »

(Edited)

I've learned a sizeable chunk of my knowledge of Catholic tradition in Catholic forums.  Met quite a few interesting, helpful ladies and gentlemen.

I'm far from perfect, but I have a few thoughts.  Maybe they will ring true for you. 

Is it just me, doesnt it seem like the forums are devolving more and more?   Not entirely.  But it seems almost like expressing one's opinion alone is considered making an argument or makes for a lively discussion.  Each taking his turn to intellectually masturbate (yes I said masturbate), stroking the ego, getting off on simply saying or suggesting "Incorrect.  No.  You are wrong." 

I mean, if you want anyone to take you seriously, spend a few calories trying to convince the other why they should hold your view as passionately as you do.  I mean if you hold something passionately to be true, dont ya wanta make some effort to convince the other person to also?

Its as if people often do not actually read eachothers posts like you would anything else.  Posts are skimmed for that one word or sentence that jumps out as strange or foreign and then bam, they're wrong, heretical, poorly catechized, stupid.

If you ARE going to make an argument, it must meet the rigorous standards of a thesis committee.  You must align all your major and minor premises with the most fluid and perfect syllogistic accuracy, or I'm not listening. 

And what is it with the anti-traditionalists making trad forums their powwow hangout?  Circling the trads with their enlightened wisdom.  I understand their gripes and distaste for Tridentine, Thomistic piety.  But its like a bunch of novus ordo Catholics crashing a post-Latin Mass trad potluck and acting like it's their party.

And the censors.  On the look out for dangerous freethinkers.  And anything that doesn't fit the groupthink.  A Tridentine Mass said in English?  Who are you, are you really one of us?  You just said something nice about Pope Francis.  Red flag!  You like Pope Michael?  Well then you must be living in your parents basement.

Censorship, imo, scares off many potentially interesting posters.

We could be having a lot more lively, creative, fruitful, and fun conversations if we'd listen to eachother and be slow to judge.  NOBODY is more Catholic, or Traditional, or Catechized, or having "The Right Ideas," by virtue of forum posts in an internet forum under a username.   

We are all people, not just usernames.  At the same time we only know about eachother by what is said in posts. 

And everybody here has the right to be an armchair theologian if they want to because it's fun to use and share what you know, as long as you dont think you are more than that, a self-appointed online Professional Theologian Authority, who MUST be listened to by virtue of that self-appointed authority.  Otherwise, back up your knowledge with facts and references, if not then use qualifiers like "From what I've read...in my understanding...what I learned."  Dont say things like "If you were actually educated and well read in Catholic Tradition (like me), and can read the Summa in Latin, French, and Italian (like me), you wouldnt make such a blatantly ignorant comment." 

Someone starts a thread about a specific subject.  Stick to the subject.  Dont derail it.  Please.  Dont like it, then don't post in it, or if its really objectionable, report to moderator.  Read what the person says.  Did they say something odd?  Ask them for clarity before going on a rashly judging witchhunt.  Answer their questions back. 

Oh and ask questions.  To me when people dispute eachother without asking eachother questions--literal, rhetorical, or otherwise--odds are it becomes each person taking his turn to pleasure themselves intellectually.

Dare eachother. Dont read minds.  Be civil but real.  Be charitable but rock the boat a bit.  Make fun of yourself.  Believe the other person. 

Ok I've said my peace.  Thanks KK for this hangout.  I love all of you, even those of you thinking right now I have a beef with them.  I have no beef with any individual.  God speed.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 01:35:36 PM by christulsa »
 
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Offline Non Nobis

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Re: Discissions in Catholic Forums
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2017, 04:51:41 PM »
Typo: Discissions in Catholic Forums

Just providing a case in point!  :D  Now you can get me back with "what are you talking about", after fixing it. ;)  (it doesn't bother me, it just seemed like an opportunity for humor)

I generally agree with you Chris, although I would have put it more gently.  But that's just me, and maybe your way is better -  definitely more courageous.

Have to judge other posters as kindly as we can.  Sometimes things come across as uncharitable when they are really meant to help (e.g. dealing with the scrupulous, etc).     Sometimes "that is just the way people are" (e.g. brusque by nature or by vice), and it's not a matter of their carelessly taking advantage of writing on a forum to be rude.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 05:04:39 PM by Non Nobis »
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Offline christulsa

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Re: Discissions in Catholic Forums
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2017, 05:22:13 PM »
Typo: Discissions in Catholic Forums

Just providing a case in point!  :D  Now you can get me back with "what are you talking about", after fixing it. ;)  (it doesn't bother me, it just seemed like an opportunity for humor)

I generally agree with you Chris, although I would have put it more gently.  But that's just me, and maybe your way is better -  definitely more courageous.

Have to judge other posters as kindly as we can.  Sometimes things come across as uncharitable when they are really meant to help (e.g. dealing with the scrupulous, etc).     Sometimes "that is just the way pe :shrug:ople are" (e.g. brusque by nature or by vice), and it's not a matter of their carelessly taking advantage of writing on a forum to be rude.

Shoot.  Tried editing the title.   :shrug: 

So...WHY do you "generally agree?"  I double dog dare you.  :D
 


Offline Pon de Replay

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Re: Discussions in Catholic Forums
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2017, 07:08:19 PM »
I was able to edit the subject line in this reply, so I think you should be able to similarly edit the OP.

More is granted to thy view than lies within human ken. (Sirach 3:25)

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Offline Reader

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Re: Discissions in Catholic Forums
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2017, 08:39:20 PM »
I give you the 70 page Fatima thread as Exhibit A.

In all seriousness, I agree with your points and find many of the behaviors you list to be huge turn-offs.
 

Offline Carleendiane

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Re: Discissions in Catholic Forums
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2017, 11:37:58 PM »
Been thinking about this Chris. I find it true that a forum conversation has much less use of good manners than a round table discussion after Mass in the church basement. To a degree I understand this. Making a hurried step into a thread and throwing up a quick reaction to a post, is ripe for thoughtless, unbridled irritation or a chastisement for what may appear to be a poorly stated or uninformed post. Even worse,  if their opinion is not supported by documentation or expounded upon by a church father, for example, a poster is immedistely put on defense. Even if they happen to understand that they said stupid, they've been hit from so many sides they dont have a chance to regroup and take another stab at it. Maybe that is the nature of a forum. I don't know, but I do know its not the nature of conversation. I have very little experience with forums, but it seems good manners are not required in these short sharp exchanges. Nobody wants to complain, or worse, be seen as a special snowflake, so the attacker gets a bye, especially so if they are seen as an authority on all things Catholic. People really do say the dumbest things, myself included. But hopefully I say less stupid than I do at least neutral, and so do most people.

But...all that being said, I love the spontaneous character of a forum, and would hate to lose that due to rules demanding polite, never unkind or offensive responses. The spontaneous responses, are what makes a forum seem like conversation. Does that make sense? We are conversing, minus the typical social graces you'll find at a potluck, or coffee and donuts. Maybe we could at least leave the sting of personal attack out of a disagreement. Or be more careful to treat one another with a bit more dignity, apply the benefit of the doubt as to a poster's intent. Even a heated discussion can be less personal, but on topic. Yes, we are a passionate people. I love that about traditional Catholics. And yes, we are warriors for the truth. St. Joan of Arc had many confrontations and corrections to make for the sake of truth, but nowhere does that lead one to deduce that she did so without also employing charity. Is this too girly, or too much to expect for a forum? I ask with sincerity. I want to know if I'm missing something or if this is truly this way on forums. Regardless, I love this forum and if it never changes for the better, I will continue to enjoy it, but there are times.....
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Offline christulsa

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Re: Discissions in Catholic Forums
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2017, 12:15:45 AM »
Been thinking about this Chris. I find it true that a forum conversation has much less use of good manners than a round table discussion after Mass in the church basement. To a degree I understand this. Making a hurried step into a thread and throwing up a quick reaction to a post, is ripe for thoughtless, unbridled irritation or a chastisement for what may appear to be a poorly stated or uninformed post. Even worse,  if their opinion is not supported by documentation or expounded upon by a church father, for example, a poster is immedistely put on defense. Even if they happen to understand that they said stupid, they've been hit from so many sides they dont have a chance to regroup and take another stab at it. Maybe that is the nature of a forum. I don't know, but I do know its not the nature of conversation. I have very little experience with forums, but it seems good manners are not required in these short sharp exchanges. Nobody wants to complain, or worse, be seen as a special snowflake, so the attacker gets a bye, especially so if they are seen as an authority on all things Catholic. People really do say the dumbest things, myself included. But hopefully I say less stupid than I do at least neutral, and so do most people.

But...all that being said, I love the spontaneous character of a forum, and would hate to lose that due to rules demanding polite, never unkind or offensive responses. The spontaneous responses, are what makes a forum seem like conversation. Does that make sense? We are conversing, minus the typical social graces you'll find at a potluck, or coffee and donuts. Maybe we could at least leave the sting of personal attack out of a disagreement. Or be more careful to treat one another with a bit more dignity, apply the benefit of the doubt as to a poster's intent. Even a heated discussion can be less personal, but on topic. Yes, we are a passionate people. I love that about traditional Catholics. And yes, we are warriors for the truth. St. Joan of Arc had many confrontations and corrections to make for the sake of truth, but nowhere does that lead one to deduce that she did so without also employing charity. Is this too girly, or too much to expect for a forum? I ask with sincerity. I want to know if I'm missing something or if this is truly this way on forums. Regardless, I love this forum and if it never changes for the better, I will continue to enjoy it, but there are times.....

Incorrect.  You committed the fallacy of pro quo pro populo and you failed to give proper references from Scholastics.  A true traditionalist properly trained in Tradition would absolutely understand high manners of communication.  From your latest post history, it is clear and evident you do not. That is the strict official position of Christulsa, CEO of OnlineArmchairPhilosophers.com. 
You are flirting with error Carleen which I suspect (translation intuitively know through cyberspace) comes from being too influenced by the Novus Or do.
But I do mean this in charity. 

Lol

But in all seriousmess, I agree manners are less important in an online forum.  Charity is key.  When I ask a fellow traditional Catholic (I actually asked a trad priest this the other day) if they're in the Catholic forums, they usually say no because of how people act uncharitably in the forums.  The priest said he used to, but stopped because he thought people were getting too arrogant and opinionated, rather than discussing.  Which is basically the thrust of the points I made.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 12:37:45 AM by christulsa »
 
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Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Discissions in Catholic Forums
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2017, 12:32:01 AM »
(Edited)

I've learned a sizeable chunk of my knowledge of Catholic tradition in Catholic forums.  Met quite a few interesting, helpful ladies and gentlemen.

I'm far from perfect, but I have a few thoughts.  Maybe they will ring true for you. 

Is it just me, doesnt it seem like the forums are devolving more and more?   Not entirely.  But it seems almost like expressing one's opinion alone is considered making an argument or makes for a lively discussion.  Each taking his turn to intellectually masturbate (yes I said masturbate), stroking the ego, getting off on simply saying or suggesting "Incorrect.  No.  You are wrong." 

I mean, if you want anyone to take you seriously, spend a few calories trying to convince the other why they should hold your view as passionately as you do.  I mean if you hold something passionately to be true, dont ya wanta make some effort to convince the other person to also?

Its as if people often do not actually read eachothers posts like you would anything else.  Posts are skimmed for that one word or sentence that jumps out as strange or foreign and then bam, they're wrong, heretical, poorly catechized, stupid.

If you ARE going to make an argument, it must meet the rigorous standards of a thesis committee.  You must align all your major and minor premises with the most fluid and perfect syllogistic accuracy, or I'm not listening. 

And what is it with the anti-traditionalists making trad forums their powwow hangout?  Circling the trads with their enlightened wisdom.  I understand their gripes and distaste for Tridentine, Thomistic piety.  But its like a bunch of novus ordo Catholics crashing a post-Latin Mass trad potluck and acting like it's their party.

And the censors.  On the look out for dangerous freethinkers.  And anything that doesn't fit the groupthink.  A Tridentine Mass said in English?  Who are you, are you really one of us?  You just said something nice about Pope Francis.  Red flag!  You like Pope Michael?  Well then you must be living in your parents basement.

Censorship, imo, scares off many potentially interesting posters.

We could be having a lot more lively, creative, fruitful, and fun conversations if we'd listen to eachother and be slow to judge.  NOBODY is more Catholic, or Traditional, or Catechized, or having "The Right Ideas," by virtue of forum posts in an internet forum under a username.   

We are all people, not just usernames.  At the same time we only know about eachother by what is said in posts. 

And everybody here has the right to be an armchair theologian if they want to because it's fun to use and share what you know, as long as you dont think you are more than that, a self-appointed online Professional Theologian Authority, who MUST be listened to by virtue of that self-appointed authority.  Otherwise, back up your knowledge with facts and references, if not then use qualifiers like "From what I've read...in my understanding...what I learned."  Dont say things like "If you were actually educated and well read in Catholic Tradition (like me), and can read the Summa in Latin, French, and Italian (like me), you wouldnt make such a blatantly ignorant comment." 

Someone starts a thread about a specific subject.  Stick to the subject.  Dont derail it.  Please.  Dont like it, then don't post in it, or if its really objectionable, report to moderator.  Read what the person says.  Did they say something odd?  Ask them for clarity before going on a rashly judging witchhunt.  Answer their questions back. 

Oh and ask questions.  To me when people dispute eachother without asking eachother questions--literal, rhetorical, or otherwise--odds are it becomes each person taking his turn to pleasure themselves intellectually.

Dare eachother. Dont read minds.  Be civil but real.  Be charitable but rock the boat a bit.  Make fun of yourself.  Believe the other person. 

Ok I've said my peace.  Thanks KK for this hangout.  I love all of you, even those of you thinking right now I have a beef with them.  I have no beef with any individual.  God speed.

First, many topics on Catholic discussion forums, even on openly N.O. forums such as CA, are not topics open for debate -- not because any poster has said so, but because the Catholic Church has said so.  Your OP implies that it's the responsibility of individual posters who are well catechized to educate in thorough, scholastic fashion those who are less catechized, and to do so for free.  It is actually not other people's responsibility to "make the rigorous argument of a thesis committee" when it comes to settled doctrine.  No forum user made such an agreement with the forum owner to provide extensive, thorough "argument" on absolutely all matters that anyone else wishes to discuss. 

And the fact that you are using the imperative throughout your OP implies that you believe you are in a position to dictate how other posters reply on someone else's discussion forum besides yours.  (You're obviously capable of opening your own forum, setting your "demands" that people re-argue Catholic doctrine.)

It is further offensive that you use vulgar concepts and attribute to others why they do and do not argue points and reply to topics, as if they're a bunch of narcissists -- apparently in contrast to you.  I actually give much more credit to people than that.  I do not assume that people's motives are suspect right off the bat.  I assume that at least initially they are posting in good faith, most of the time, even if they are unaware of a doctrinal point or distinction that was argued centuries ago by the Fathers and Doctors of the Church.  I also assume that if they are in error regarding the absolutes dogmatized in Catholic tradition, they might want to look up what the body of Tradition says about the topic, since this is, after all, a traditional Catholic discussion forum.

I do agree that purposefully derailing a thread -- and I don't mean what is perceived as an important interruption to clarify a definition or make an efficient correction -- is not helpful, but generally I find that the people who complain the most about that are themselves the most frequent derailers.

However, there often comes a point in a so-called debate when it is obvious that all the participants have exhausted their own points and dialogue has reached a stalemate because there is no resolution.  That lack of resolution could be refusal to stay on topic (someone prefers a different topic, a side topic, and is disgruntled because no one wants to play the new game with him).  Or it could be that all the arguable aspects of the topic have been pursued already, but someone in the discussion is still unhappy and demanding that others continue with him ad infinitum. (He's still fascinated; there's nothing wrong with that; but assuming that when others don't care to join in the stream-of-consciousness that they lack "courage," intellectual fortitude, or have no substance to argue, is both inaccurate and uncharitable.  Maybe the person doing the arguing --whoever he is -- is boring on this topic, although not on other topics.) 

From time to time I have opened threads that have interested either few or none.  I don't conclude that the rest of the forum users "lack courage."  Maybe my topic is boring to them, even though a similar topic interested them.  I don't take it personally and find it an opportunity to get on a soapbox about the supposed moral, spiritual, emotional, or intellectual failings of others.

But here's the bottom line when it comes to Catholicism.  Our individual Confirmations obligated us to become responsible for becoming informed Catholics, and that includes Tradition -- however poorly Tradition was taught to someone (if that someone was a convert or was born into the N.O.) or however it was left completely un-taught.  Other posters are not responsible for doing any other poster's homework (self-study).  I can be patient to a point, and I like providing resources to people who never had those resources, and I like explaining what I do know to those who show a genuine interest in knowledge and are not just complacent in their own ignorance.  I would say that I especially like being generous in the area of moral theology and spirituality because most modern Catholics received extremely unreliable catechesis in both, even though they might have been well taught as to sacraments and some other essentials.

Many people assume that they are excellent debaters, arguers, and cannot understand why others don't want to engage them, and actually in this matter I'm mostly referring to other discussion forums.  (I have noticed the syndrome on other forums, that is.)  They, also, become either bewildered or quite annoyed that "no one [or not enough people, or not the people they want to argue with] wants to debate" with them.  They also often accuse others of not being sufficiently intellectual, courageous, or charitable, but they do not see how either the topic (sometimes) or their assumptions/demands (other times) does not motivate others to participate.

[edited for my typo]
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 12:34:11 AM by Miriam_M »
 
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Offline christulsa

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Re: Discissions in Catholic Forums
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2017, 01:15:40 AM »
I was able to edit the subject line in this reply, so I think you should be able to similarly edit the OP.




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« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 03:16:43 AM by christulsa »
 
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Offline christulsa

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Re: Discussions in Catholic Forums
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2017, 01:45:46 PM »
-
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 01:49:14 PM by christulsa »
 
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Offline christulsa

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Re: Discissions in Catholic Forums
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2017, 01:50:05 PM »
(Edited)

I've learned a sizeable chunk of my knowledge of Catholic tradition in Catholic forums.  Met quite a few interesting, helpful ladies and gentlemen.

I'm far from perfect, but I have a few thoughts.  Maybe they will ring true for you. 

Is it just me, doesnt it seem like the forums are devolving more and more?   Not entirely.  But it seems almost like expressing one's opinion alone is considered making an argument or makes for a lively discussion.  Each taking his turn to intellectually masturbate (yes I said masturbate), stroking the ego, getting off on simply saying or suggesting "Incorrect.  No.  You are wrong." 

I mean, if you want anyone to take you seriously, spend a few calories trying to convince the other why they should hold your view as passionately as you do.  I mean if you hold something passionately to be true, dont ya wanta make some effort to convince the other person to also?

Its as if people often do not actually read eachothers posts like you would anything else.  Posts are skimmed for that one word or sentence that jumps out as strange or foreign and then bam, they're wrong, heretical, poorly catechized, stupid.

If you ARE going to make an argument, it must meet the rigorous standards of a thesis committee.  You must align all your major and minor premises with the most fluid and perfect syllogistic accuracy, or I'm not listening. 

And what is it with the anti-traditionalists making trad forums their powwow hangout?  Circling the trads with their enlightened wisdom.  I understand their gripes and distaste for Tridentine, Thomistic piety.  But its like a bunch of novus ordo Catholics crashing a post-Latin Mass trad potluck and acting like it's their party.

And the censors.  On the look out for dangerous freethinkers.  And anything that doesn't fit the groupthink.  A Tridentine Mass said in English?  Who are you, are you really one of us?  You just said something nice about Pope Francis.  Red flag!  You like Pope Michael?  Well then you must be living in your parents basement.

Censorship, imo, scares off many potentially interesting posters.

We could be having a lot more lively, creative, fruitful, and fun conversations if we'd listen to eachother and be slow to judge.  NOBODY is more Catholic, or Traditional, or Catechized, or having "The Right Ideas," by virtue of forum posts in an internet forum under a username.   

We are all people, not just usernames.  At the same time we only know about eachother by what is said in posts. 

And everybody here has the right to be an armchair theologian if they want to because it's fun to use and share what you know, as long as you dont think you are more than that, a self-appointed online Professional Theologian Authority, who MUST be listened to by virtue of that self-appointed authority.  Otherwise, back up your knowledge with facts and references, if not then use qualifiers like "From what I've read...in my understanding...what I learned."  Dont say things like "If you were actually educated and well read in Catholic Tradition (like me), and can read the Summa in Latin, French, and Italian (like me), you wouldnt make such a blatantly ignorant comment." 

Someone starts a thread about a specific subject.  Stick to the subject.  Dont derail it.  Please.  Dont like it, then don't post in it, or if its really objectionable, report to moderator.  Read what the person says.  Did they say something odd?  Ask them for clarity before going on a rashly judging witchhunt.  Answer their questions back. 

Oh and ask questions.  To me when people dispute eachother without asking eachother questions--literal, rhetorical, or otherwise--odds are it becomes each person taking his turn to pleasure themselves intellectually.

Dare eachother. Dont read minds.  Be civil but real.  Be charitable but rock the boat a bit.  Make fun of yourself.  Believe the other person. 

Ok I've said my peace.  Thanks KK for this hangout.  I love all of you, even those of you thinking right now I have a beef with them.  I have no beef with any individual.  God speed.

First, many topics on Catholic discussion forums, even on openly N.O. forums such as CA, are not topics open for debate -- not because any poster has said so, but because the Catholic Church has said so.  Your OP implies that it's the responsibility of individual posters who are well catechized to educate in thorough, scholastic fashion those who are less catechized, and to do so for free.  It is actually not other people's responsibility to "make the rigorous argument of a thesis committee" when it comes to settled doctrine.  No forum user made such an agreement with the forum owner to provide extensive, thorough "argument" on absolutely all matters that anyone else wishes to discuss. 

And the fact that you are using the imperative throughout your OP implies that you believe you are in a position to dictate how other posters reply on someone else's discussion forum besides yours.  (You're obviously capable of opening your own forum, setting your "demands" that people re-argue Catholic doctrine.)

It is further offensive that you use vulgar concepts and attribute to others why they do and do not argue points and reply to topics, as if they're a bunch of narcissists -- apparently in contrast to you.  I actually give much more credit to people than that.  I do not assume that people's motives are suspect right off the bat.  I assume that at least initially they are posting in good faith, most of the time, even if they are unaware of a doctrinal point or distinction that was argued centuries ago by the Fathers and Doctors of the Church.  I also assume that if they are in error regarding the absolutes dogmatized in Catholic tradition, they might want to look up what the body of Tradition says about the topic, since this is, after all, a traditional Catholic discussion forum.

I do agree that purposefully derailing a thread -- and I don't mean what is perceived as an important interruption to clarify a definition or make an efficient correction -- is not helpful, but generally I find that the people who complain the most about that are themselves the most frequent derailers.

However, there often comes a point in a so-called debate when it is obvious that all the participants have exhausted their own points and dialogue has reached a stalemate because there is no resolution.  That lack of resolution could be refusal to stay on topic (someone prefers a different topic, a side topic, and is disgruntled because no one wants to play the new game with him).  Or it could be that all the arguable aspects of the topic have been pursued already, but someone in the discussion is still unhappy and demanding that others continue with him ad infinitum. (He's still fascinated; there's nothing wrong with that; but assuming that when others don't care to join in the stream-of-consciousness that they lack "courage," intellectual fortitude, or have no substance to argue, is both inaccurate and uncharitable.  Maybe the person doing the arguing --whoever he is -- is boring on this topic, although not on other topics.) 

From time to time I have opened threads that have interested either few or none.  I don't conclude that the rest of the forum users "lack courage."  Maybe my topic is boring to them, even though a similar topic interested them.  I don't take it personally and find it an opportunity to get on a soapbox about the supposed moral, spiritual, emotional, or intellectual failings of others.

But here's the bottom line when it comes to Catholicism.  Our individual Confirmations obligated us to become responsible for becoming informed Catholics, and that includes Tradition -- however poorly Tradition was taught to someone (if that someone was a convert or was born into the N.O.) or however it was left completely un-taught.  Other posters are not responsible for doing any other poster's homework (self-study).  I can be patient to a point, and I like providing resources to people who never had those resources, and I like explaining what I do know to those who show a genuine interest in knowledge and are not just complacent in their own ignorance.  I would say that I especially like being generous in the area of moral theology and spirituality because most modern Catholics received extremely unreliable catechesis in both, even though they might have been well taught as to sacraments and some other essentials.

Many people assume that they are excellent debaters, arguers, and cannot understand why others don't want to engage them, and actually in this matter I'm mostly referring to other discussion forums.  (I have noticed the syndrome on other forums, that is.)  They, also, become either bewildered or quite annoyed that "no one [or not enough people, or not the people they want to argue with] wants to debate" with them.  They also often accuse others of not being sufficiently intellectual, courageous, or charitable, but they do not see how either the topic (sometimes) or their assumptions/demands (other times) does not motivate others to participate.

[edited for my typo]


If you ARE going to make an argument, it must meet the rigorous standards of a thesis committee.  You must align all your major and minor premises with the most fluid and perfect syllogistic accuracy, or I'm not listening..........

Someone starts a thread about a specific subject.  Stick to the subject.  Dont derail it.  Please.  Dont like it, then don't post in it, or if its really objectionable, report to moderator.  Read what the person says.  Did they say something odd?  Ask them for clarity before going on a rashly judging witchhunt.

Case in point.

The first paragraph is obviously not literal.  Sigh.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 01:55:50 PM by christulsa »
 

Offline Non Nobis

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Re: Discissions in Catholic Forums
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2017, 05:08:43 PM »
Typo: Discissions in Catholic Forums

Just providing a case in point!  :D  Now you can get me back with "what are you talking about", after fixing it. ;)  (it doesn't bother me, it just seemed like an opportunity for humor)

I generally agree with you Chris, although I would have put it more gently.  But that's just me, and maybe your way is better -  definitely more courageous.

Have to judge other posters as kindly as we can.  Sometimes things come across as uncharitable when they are really meant to help (e.g. dealing with the scrupulous, etc).     Sometimes "that is just the way pe :shrug:ople are" (e.g. brusque by nature or by vice), and it's not a matter of their carelessly taking advantage of writing on a forum to be rude.

Shoot.  Tried editing the title.   :shrug: 

So...WHY do you "generally agree?"  I double dog dare you.  :D
 

For one thing, I think not answering questions is not as rude as it might be when speaking face to face! I know I sometimes don't answer questions simply because there are too many to handle; or when I just am not there to post (or of course when I just don't have an answer!). Probably people shouldn't have as high expectations for responsiveness when posting as they do in personal interactions. (But I answered your question anyway!  I couldn't resist the double dog dare.  :D).

It seems people sometimes answer by giving a little essay (since we are writing, that seems allowable), but sometimes by being more spontaneous.  Posting is a kind of a blend of writing and speaking.  It is hard to get the etiquette just right, and people have different styles.  (I guess I have a  little of both styles. I sometimes finish a post thinking,"oops that sounded like a sermon". At other times I think, "I sure put a lot of work into making that sound spontaneous" (and then it probably didn't  :) ). I'm rather slow and quiet... )

Some people just don't communicate as well as others; but we all have to keep trying. But civility and charity and humility and understanding on both sides should be the goal, which I know was the main point of your OP.
Children say that people are hung sometimes for speaking the truth.

If I am not in the state of grace, may God put me there; and if I am, may God so keep me

- Saint Joan of Arc
 
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Offline Carleendiane

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Re: Discussions in Catholic Forums
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2017, 05:19:59 PM »
Typo: Discissions in Catholic Forums

Just providing a case in point!  :D  Now you can get me back with "what are you talking about", after fixing it. ;)  (it doesn't bother me, it just seemed like an opportunity for humor)

I generally agree with you Chris, although I would have put it more gently.  But that's just me, and maybe your way is better -  definitely more courageous.

Have to judge other posters as kindly as we can.  Sometimes things come across as uncharitable when they are really meant to help (e.g. dealing with the scrupulous, etc).     Sometimes "that is just the way pe :shrug:ople are" (e.g. brusque by nature or by vice), and it's not a matter of their carelessly taking advantage of writing on a forum to be rude.

Shoot.  Tried editing the title.   :shrug: 

So...WHY do you "generally agree?"  I double dog dare you.  :D
 

For one thing, I think not answering questions is not as rude as it might be when speaking face to face! I know I sometimes don't answer questions simply because there are too many to handle; or when I just am not there to post (or of course when I just don't have an answer!). Probably people shouldn't have as high expectations for responsiveness when posting as they do in personal interactions. (But I answered your question anyway!  I couldn't resist the double dog dare.  :D).

It seems people sometimes answer by giving a little essay (since we are writing, that seems allowable), but sometimes by being more spontaneous.  Posting is a kind of a blend of writing and speaking.  It is hard to get the etiquette just right, and people have different styles.  (I guess I have a  little of both styles. I sometimes finish a post thinking,"oops that sounded like a sermon". At other times I think, "I sure put a lot of work into making that sound spontaneous" (and then it probably didn't  :) ). I'm rather slow and quiet... )

Some people just don't communicate as well as others; but we all have to keep trying. But civility and charity and humility and understanding on both sides should be the goal, which I know was the main point of your OP.


Yes, Non. You are so smart.
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Offline christulsa

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Re: Discussions in Catholic Forums
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2017, 05:20:41 PM »
Non, you actually didnt answer my question.  LOL. Afraid of being censored? That's ok. 
 
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Offline Carleendiane

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Re: Discussions in Catholic Forums
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2017, 05:57:47 PM »
Non, you actually didnt answer my question.  LOL. Afraid of being censored? That's ok.

Don't care. I love to hear what she has to say.
To board the struggle bus: no whining, board with a smile, a fake one will be found out and put off at next stop, no maps, no directions, going only one way, one destination. Follow all rules and you will arrive. Drop off at pearly gate. Bring nothing.