Buying religious goods from schismatics

[NOLIMETANGERECHRISTISVM]

1. I care because he is spreading error.

2. Protestant's donate on Christ's behalf too. It's still likely sinful to donate to the Great Apostates. I grew up in the novus ordo abomination, but now I see the wisdom in the Society adjuring the faithful to avoid them entirely.

[aquinas138]

I have a general rule not to give any money or support to religious groups or organizations that are not Catholic for obvious reasons. Thus, no charitable contribution or donation to have a pancake breakfast at the local protty church, for instance.

But what about buying religious goods for Catholic purposes while knowing the contribution may aid a schismatic?

Specifically, I wanted to buy some votive candles, although they are overpriced and generally not what I'm looking for from the secular retailers. The Catholic ones are also selling them high and quality is questionable. I found an Orthodox monastery, however, that sells them for a very fair and reasonable price.

If you are purchasing a material good (as opposed to making a donation), I don't see why it would be any different than buying from a company run by non-Catholics. I can understand it being better to buy from Catholics if you can, but I don't see how you are obligated to buy inferior products from Catholics.

[OCLittleFlower]

I have a general rule not to give any money or support to religious groups or organizations that are not Catholic for obvious reasons. Thus, no charitable contribution or donation to have a pancake breakfast at the local protty church, for instance.

But what about buying religious goods for Catholic purposes while knowing the contribution may aid a schismatic?

Specifically, I wanted to buy some votive candles, although they are overpriced and generally not what I'm looking for from the secular retailers. The Catholic ones are also selling them high and quality is questionable. I found an Orthodox monastery, however, that sells them for a very fair and reasonable price.

If you are purchasing a material good (as opposed to making a donation), I don't see why it would be any different than buying from a company run by non-Catholics. I can understand it being better to buy from Catholics if you can, but I don't see how you are obligated to buy inferior products from Catholics.

Or even be obligated to KNOW what people are.

[Heinrich]

1. I care because he is spreading error.

2. Protestant's donate on Christ's behalf too. It's still likely sinful to donate to the Great Apostates. I grew up in the novus ordo abomination, but now I see the wisdom in the Society adjuring the faithful to avoid them entirely.

Are you part of the regular SSPX or the resistance? Are you insinuating that I am a Novus Ordo Catholic because I attend an FSSP parish?

[Prayerful]

I wouldn't do it. I had an FSSP priest tell me giving money to the SSPX was sinful.

Silly priest. He owes his vocation, the easy availability of the true Mass, in fact the existence of the FSSP to Archbishop Lefebvre, that most unrebellious and docile of priests, who signed every decree of V2 out of loyalty to his Pope, Paul VI.

[NOLIMETANGERECHRISTISVM]

1. I care because he is spreading error.

2. Protestant's donate on Christ's behalf too. It's still likely sinful to donate to the Great Apostates. I grew up in the novus ordo abomination, but now I see the wisdom in the Society adjuring the faithful to avoid them entirely.

Are you part of the regular SSPX or the resistance? Are you insinuating that I am a Novus Ordo Catholic because I attend an FSSP parish?

You seem to be insinuating that anyone who gives money to the SSPX is sinning, since you didn't clarify that your priest was clearly wrong. That does make me question how Traditional you may be. The FSSP must necessarily acquiesce to the Novus Ordo, receive orders from Novus Ordo bishops, keep their mouths shut, tacitly accept the so-called hermeneutic of continuity, and work under the direction of and financially support material if not manifest heretics, provided they wish to remain in "good standing." To my mind, that makes them solidly Novus Ordo. Now if someone were forced by sheer necessity to attend Latin Masses held by those clergy who continually make compromises with error, then they have my sympathy, but when they provide financial assistance that makes its way back to diocesan chanceries and the novus ordo institution writ large, I find them practically as culpable as a dyed in the wool novus ordite.

[NOLIMETANGERECHRISTISVM]

To make the point further, this is a typical parish in the archdiocese of Minneapolis. 8 cents of every dollar goes to the diocese. In other dioceses I've heard it's around 10 cents. So if you figure you give a modest 10 dollars a week at the collection, you're already donating somewhere around 50 dollars a year to the chancery. If you donate 20 a week, double that to 100. That's between 50-100 dollars a year to support the Novus Ordo RCIA programs, Novus Ordo seminaries inculcating seminarians with heresy and modernism, community outreach programs that are full of religious compromises, even  marriage tribunals passing out annulments like they are hot cakes at a Protestant community breakfast drive... speaking of which, would you give 50-100 dollars to Protestants, the orthodox, Jews, or muslims to fund their religious institutions? Then why fund the Novus Ordo?

Your money may also wind up paying off another pervert priest's court settlements post molestation charges. No thanks. The sooner the Novus Ordo is bled dry, the sooner it will collapse and be forced to come to Tradition. You wouldn't give money to a junky looking for his next fix; don't give money to a heretic using it to damn his soul.

[christulsa]

If one goes to (or must go to) an approved TLM, how can one financially support the parish without any of your $ going to Novus Ordo causes?  Maybe put a Home Depot gift card in the collection basket for parish repairs?  Or maybe a gift card for the local Catholic supplier to buy altar supplies? 

[NOLIMETANGERECHRISTISVM]

I don't know of any way it can be done, which is why I refrain from giving money any time I attend one of those Masses.

The concern might be that if everyone doesn't go ahead and provide financial assistance, the traditional parish would soon become insolvent and be forced to close...

But that's ok. That would force the Traditonal priest in question to make an actual unambiguous decision regarding his own salvation: either lose his parish, force his flock to go back to the Novus Ordo, be sent elsewhere and continue compromising, or actually man up and stop acquiescing to heresy. Maybe he'd then join the Society at that point or another religious order not financially and materially bound to apostasy.

Some might argue that they feel as if they are under duress and must comply given the lousy situation, so they're not really culpable for financing heresy,, but I call bullshido on that. They're not going to be physically locked up in jail like tax evaders for refusing to donate in the collection. So a priest chooses to stop paying his tax to the local apostate bishop? Man up and face the consequences, take your congregation with you and join the society. Those that go to the Novus Ordo aren't your responsibility then. Explain your reasoning, do the right thing. If they have a solid faith they'll understand.

The sooner Catholics and Traditional Catholic clergy stop complying with apostates the sooner the apostasy will literally implode.

Finally, those who say they must attend the Novus Ordo as there aren't any Latin Masses around, I ask, who is literally forcing you against your will to live in that location? You should call the police, since you are clearly being held hostage. Perhaps consider a new job, or a lesser financial position and lifestyle in a location that permits you not to have to make compromises, because ultimately we are never truly forced to compromise our faith.

That's my thinking...

[Gardener]

Do you pay taxes? Do you buy anything from companies which do not have a specifically SSPX-going ownership, and who self-produce from raw, self-sourced goods? If so, who is literally forcing you against your will to conduct such transactions? You should call the police for their extortion, perhaps consider that you only need basic shelter food and water (which can be gotten without supporting such ventures), or actually man up and stop acquiescing to mammon.

Is it heresy or apostasy to which you are opposed? They are not synonymous.

And, if you are opposed to the flow of money, WHY are you EVER attending one of those Masses? Why don't you completely divest? Why sip poisoned soup? Are you hoping the mercury in it will sink to the bottom and you can just skim "untainted" broth from the top?

[NOLIMETANGERECHRISTISVM]

Do you pay taxes? Do you buy anything from companies which do not have a specifically SSPX-going ownership, and who self-produce from raw, self-sourced goods? If so, who is literally forcing you against your will to conduct such transactions? You should call the police for their extortion, perhaps consider that you only need basic shelter food and water (which can be gotten without supporting such ventures), or actually man up and stop acquiescing to mammon.

Is it heresy or apostasy to which you are opposed? They are not synonymous.

And, if you are opposed to the flow of money, WHY are you EVER attending one of those Masses? Why don't you completely divest? Why sip poisoned soup? Are you hoping the mercury in it will sink to the bottom and you can just skim "untainted" broth from the top?

Oh did I hit a nerve? How much of your money is going to the Novus Ordo Chancery, Gardener? You made the distinction earlier between money donated to schismatics, heretics, etc. and money passed in a business transaction for goods. The key difference here is that you are DONATING money, therefore you can't claim you're not responsible for directly supporting the Novus Ordo with YOUR money. Did I not already address taxation above, Gardener? I noted in such an instance you'd wind up sent to jail by force. That is in fact coercion, and thus someone could rightly claim duress. But there is no such coercion in the context of a DONATION given freely to a parish that sends 10% of your money directly to the Novus Ordo.

Oh they're not the same thing? Oh dear...thank goodness you're here to clarify the obvious.

As for attendance, it's merely to fulfill the obligation. I don't see how money is an issue when I don't provide them any. Didn't you see where I said that? So where do you attend Mass, Gardener?

[Kaesekopf]

Lol. 

I missed this sort of poster.

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

[NOLIMETANGERECHRISTISVM]

I know. I've always enjoyed how the crowd that racks up thousands of posts on an Internet forum love to throw around the sarcasm when a new guy brings up a good point.

No one ever likes any criticism, with their cocky sense of religious self-assurance and failure to acknowledge the general hypocrisy of their religious positions.

[christulsa]

Lol. 

I missed this sort of poster.

Sent from my STV100-1 using Tapatalk

When a FSSP priest suggests it's a sin to donate $ to the SSPX, for some SSPXers it sounds like a declaration of war.  Which it (almost always) isn't.  But three decades of mutual hostility from trads on both sides of the SSPX-FSSP divide explains our friends reaction, imo.. The two Fraternities are practically like feuding identical twin brothers, except one has a birth mark.  I leave it to the reader to decide which one has the birthmark.   

[christulsa]

I know. I've always enjoyed how the crowd that racks up thousands of posts on an Internet forum love to throw around the sarcasm when a new guy brings up a good point.

No one ever likes any criticism, with their cocky sense of religious self-assurance and failure to acknowledge the general hypocrisy of their religious positions.

No worries NOLIME.  I've gotch your back.  Kaesekopf lost ownership of Suscipe Domine to me recently in a poker game.  So if anybody gives you a hard time, send me a PM.