Follow-up on N.O.M.

[Michael Wilson]

Miriam,
thanks for your last response. The key point is not the personal corruption of the hierarchy (as opposed to other eras), but false teachings introduced into the Church by men who ostensibly hold authority in the Church.
According to Fr. Wolfe, it is more of a suspension of the teaching function; but according to many non-sede Churchmen there is actual heresy being taught in the Church. We can mention Vatican II and Religious Liberty and Ecumenism; J.P.II on universal salvation and the "spirit of Assisi" sincretism, and finally,
things have gotten so bad in the case of Francis, that four cardinals wrote him a dubia questioning his teaching regarding adultery; and 150 theologians on other topics.

[Miriam_M]

Miriam,
thanks for your last response. The key point is not the personal corruption of the hierarchy (as opposed to other eras), but false teachings introduced into the Church by men who ostensibly hold authority in the Church.
According to Fr. Wolfe, it is more of a suspension of the teaching function; but according to many non-sede Churchmen there is actual heresy being taught in the Church.

No, according to Fr. Phil Wolfe, both have occurred: (1) a refusal of the episcopate to teach in general -- a sort of passive resistance, so to speak, which makes them no less culpable; and (2) apostasy.  The apostasy is widespread, according to him, and extends to the papacy.  A recent example of what he calls a "spectacle" was the pagan Pachamama worship event.  (He refuses to name the so-called deity in his own speech.)

[james03]

Kaese,
I'm curious: when you want to let your wife know that she has "messed up" do you leave her notes with green ink around the house so that she can improve her behavior?

Green doesn't show up as well on the yellow sticky notes.  Instead, he uses the purple gel ink to properly instruct his wife, for example, if he notices a smudge on his glass.

[Maximilian]

Miriam, I have to say that it appears as if something miraculous has happened in your spiritual life recently. The noticeable improvement in your ability to be charitable is remarkable. I wonder if something good happened"

Has it been a 3+ year miracle or two separate ones? 

https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=24882.msg520403#msg520403

(Just teasing. Thank you for the kind remark. I know it was sincerely offered.)

Ha, ha. I had totally forgotten that I had previously posted a nearly identical message. I'm glad that my judgment has not changed in the ensuing 3 years. I'm even more happy to see that your spiritual progress has continued unabated.

What I am referring to in the post is your ability to avoid getting entangled in personal quarrels. It's like a wrestler who is good at not getting grabbed and pulled down.

This might seem like a trivial thing, but I believe that it is actually something very important. It's not just a question of internet etiquette, but rather it's a question of whether we are captives to self-love.

Things like:
1. Wanting to be right.
2. Wanting to win the argument.
3. Wanting the other person to be wrong. (Often this takes precedence even over #1.)

These things commonly are taken for granted as natural and expected and acceptable in our society. And yet they might be a very grave impediment to our spiritual progress. After all, aren't these things just exactly what caused the Pharisees to reject Jesus and to call down destruction upon themselves and on their children? They wanted to win the argument with Jesus rather than to focus on the Truth. It was more important to them to be "Right" than to save their souls.

It's always sad to witness when a member of SD falls into this trap. We have seen so many leave the forum and even leave the Faith because they were unable to avoid entanglement in arguments, conflicts and petty quarrels. Some of my favorite people here have succumbed to this.

I don't mean to be critical, and we've already seen that my memory isn't always so good, but I had the impression that this was an issue you had trouble with in the past -- not taking things personally and not making them about "me." But recently, apparently for at least 3 years now, you've shown a remarkable ability to avoid getting yourself entangled in personal quarrels.

Because this exterior reality is likely to be the manifestation of interior progress, that's why I asked whether "something good had happened" in your spiritual life?

Don't feel obliged to say anything in public if you don't wish, but rather than post this in a PM, I thought, "Why should I post my criticisms of people in public, while saying nice things only in private? Why don't I say nice things about people in public? "

[Miriam_M]

Miriam, I have to say that it appears as if something miraculous has happened in your spiritual life recently. The noticeable improvement in your ability to be charitable is remarkable. I wonder if something good happened"

Has it been a 3+ year miracle or two separate ones? 

https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=24882.msg520403#msg520403

(Just teasing. Thank you for the kind remark. I know it was sincerely offered.)

Ha, ha. I had totally forgotten that I had previously posted a nearly identical message. I'm glad that my judgment has not changed in the ensuing 3 years. I'm even more happy to see that your spiritual progress has continued unabated.

What I am referring to in the post is your ability to avoid getting entangled in personal quarrels. It's like a wrestler who is good at not getting grabbed and pulled down.

This might seem like a trivial thing, but I believe that it is actually something very important. It's not just a question of internet etiquette, but rather it's a question of whether we are captives to self-love.

Things like:
1. Wanting to be right.
2. Wanting to win the argument.
3. Wanting the other person to be wrong. (Often this takes precedence even over #1.)

These things commonly are taken for granted as natural and expected and acceptable in our society. And yet they might be a very grave impediment to our spiritual progress. After all, aren't these things just exactly what caused the Pharisees to reject Jesus and to call down destruction upon themselves and on their children? They wanted to win the argument with Jesus rather than to focus on the Truth. It was more important to them to be "Right" than to save their souls.

It's always sad to witness when a member of SD falls into this trap. We have seen so many leave the forum and even leave the Faith because they were unable to avoid entanglement in arguments, conflicts and petty quarrels. Some of my favorite people here have succumbed to this.

I don't mean to be critical, and we've already seen that my memory isn't always so good, but I had the impression that this was an issue you had trouble with in the past -- not taking things personally and not making them about "me." But recently, apparently for at least 3 years now, you've shown a remarkable ability to avoid getting yourself entangled in personal quarrels.

Because this exterior reality is likely to be the manifestation of interior progress, that's why I asked whether "something good had happened" in your spiritual life?

Don't feel obliged to say anything in public if you don't wish, but rather than post this in a PM, I thought, "Why sh ould I post my criticisms of people in public, while saying nice things only in private? Why don't I say nice things about people in public? "

All of it ^ really great reflection, and very appreciated for the spirituality with which I cannot disagree.

[queen.saints]

After all, aren't these things just exactly what caused the Pharisees to reject Jesus and to call down destruction upon themselves and on their children? They wanted to win the argument with Jesus rather than to focus on the Truth.

Yes, such a good point.

Faith is the one and only way out of this. There was no way out of the argument with Jesus for the Pharisees than to believe the unbelievable: He was God.

Perhaps the something good that has happened to Miriam is an increase in this virtue. I was told she is the one who posted this excellent and practical Examination of Conscience which starts off with "Faith".



https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=28009.msg576039#msg576039



http://www.catholicapologetics.info/thechurch/sacraments/adults.htm


Though, sometimes it happens that we begin with the best of intentions and it turns into an argument, because of our weaknesses. Imagine if one of the Pharisees -the youngest and stupidest- came to the synagogue one morning and said,

"Guess what, everyone?! Great news! Jesus is God! Isn't that so lovely and wonderful? Now we can stop arguing and leave everything and go follow Him and be happy together forever and ever."

It probably wouldn't go over very well.

It would start a big fight and even more arguing.

He'd probably even get stoned.

But the little Pharisee hadn't stopped being stupid, just because he'd become less "perfidious" and would be angry and upset at this negative reaction to what he had expected to be joyful news.

Which is why we need Hope and Charity as well if we want to be like St. Stephen and have even our arguments with Pharisees yield fruit a thousand fold, instead of "profiting nothing."


https://www.drbo.org/chapter/51007.htm#:~:text=58%20And%20they%20stoned%20Stephen,fell%20asleep%20in%20the%20Lord.